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mesh explodes when using dForce

mikey186mikey186 Posts: 84
edited March 2018 in Daz Studio Discussion

I was trying to convert a skirt to dForce supported. I wanted to make it sit down, so I added a cube to animate it to place it under the skirt. I started the animation, as so the animation works quite well as normal, but as the cube touches the skirt and as it tries to form to a sitting pose, apparently, the mesh complely explodes.

I don't know what is going on? the only settings in the surfaces set was the Friction to 80% and Collusion Layer to 1.

Post edited by Chohole on

Comments

  • KitsumoKitsumo Posts: 1,216

    I'm no expert on dforce, but I know if you have 2 objects that touch each other and a piece of dynamic cloth is between them, it usually causes explosions (for me anyway). So I'd make sure the figure isn't actually sitting on the cube, but slightly above it.

  • mikey186mikey186 Posts: 84

    So is there a way I can make it sit without exploding?

  • KitsumoKitsumo Posts: 1,216

    Try viewing the objects from the side and make sure there's some space between the figure and the cube. The simulation doesn't like it when dynamic cloth polygons intersect with other polygons. Touching is fine, they just bounce off each other. But actually intersecting (a polygon sticking through another object or polygon) causes the simulation to go crazy.

  • PlatnumkPlatnumk Posts: 671

    The best way to combat this is to use an animated drape.

    1. Have you figure in its default pose

    2. Under 'Pose & Animate' Set the number of frames to 41

    3. Move to frame 20, and apply you pose, move figure into final position

    4. Under the Simulation Settings - set the 'Start Bones from Memorised Pose' to OFF, under 'Frames to Simulate' set it to 'Animated (Use Timeline Play Rage)

    5. Click on Simulate and let it run until the end

    This will the simulate the cloth while moving the figure into its final position, and the cube will then act as a collision object allowing the cloth to drape over the top of it while the figure will sit on to of the cloth.

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  • mikey186mikey186 Posts: 84
    edited March 2018

    and so what would be the best settings as far as 'surfaces' goes? I have it set to default (with the exeption of the top part of the skirt with it's Dyamic Strenth to 0%)

    Post edited by mikey186 on
  • MadbatMadbat Posts: 382

    Aha, this may have solved my problem as well. I've been having a lot of stuff exploding on my figures. Especially anything layered.

  • mikey186mikey186 Posts: 84

    hate to bump the thread, but now my mesh explodes AGAIN, and this time with a longer skirt. I did as I set the frame range to 41, then applied the pose at frame 20, but because it's a longer skirt, I tried moving the seat closer to her, and now it EXPLODES. 

    Now I don't know what to do in dForce. Apparently it DOES NOT support when it comes to sitting down on a seat on cirtain skirts when you don't have the correct paramaters in surfaces. I had the skirt converted to be dForce supported.

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  • PlatnumkPlatnumk Posts: 671
    mikey186 said:

    hate to bump the thread, but now my mesh explodes AGAIN, and this time with a longer skirt. I did as I set the frame range to 41, then applied the pose at frame 20, but because it's a longer skirt, I tried moving the seat closer to her, and now it EXPLODES. 

    Now I don't know what to do in dForce. Apparently it DOES NOT support when it comes to sitting down on a seat on cirtain skirts when you don't have the correct paramaters in surfaces. I had the skirt converted to be dForce supported.

    Set the Stretch Stiffness to 0.55 & the Bend Stiffness to 0.050

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  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,108

    There's always this product: https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-master-cloth-simulation-presets

    It has presets for different types of clothings that can help you with your dforce experiments. Till now, it has yet to fail me.

    Another thing to consider, is that I always get explosions unless I turn "self-collision" off in the surface tab of the items that I've applied the dforce modifyer to. 

  • mikey186mikey186 Posts: 84

    Thanks, it works! but now the question.......is there a surface setting to keep the folds intact in a skirt? Though the settings worked, but I will loose the folds with that annimation. Here's how the folds look like how it's supposed to fold.

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  • PlatnumkPlatnumk Posts: 671

    I would say that you would have to go down the weight mapping route but not sure

    You could have a read or post in this thread as they maybe able to help you more than I could on this 

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/208141/how-to-use-dforce-creating-a-blanket-draping-clothes-on-furniture-and-much-more/p1

  • hansolocambohansolocambo Posts: 649
    edited March 2020

    The brains behind Marvelous Designer would be much welcomed in Daz. Imagine the insane power of Marvelous combined to DAZ. The best human creation tool + the best physics engine for soft bodies. Damn....

    Truth is : most of the paid clothes you find around are made by people who don't know what low poly is. And they provide sometimes very good looking clothes, but the wireframe is so dense that no physics solution can calculate anything. Export a Genesis Character and import as Avatar in Marvelous. Then Export a simple short skirt and import it as garment in Marvelous : you won't be more able to calculate any cloth physics in the very best tool that exists more than you could in DAZ. Reason is not so much the physics engines : it's the meshes density. 

    If Marvelous works so insanely well it's because you can change the wireframe on the fly while generating UVs for : later

    You work with a low triangles/quad density. And when it all looks great (folds, creases, etc), then and only then do you eventually subdivide, redo a topology, etc. dforce applies to object that are not thought for physics. 

    In order for dforce to work someday, DAZ needs to code an auto-retopo/optimizer tool that manages to remesh an object while preserving UVs. Then we can Dforce the low poly.

    Or artists need to stop thinking "Base" mesh in hundreds of thousands of polygons. Even Pixar does work with way lower wireframes than that. And they know what they're doing.

    Post edited by hansolocambo on
  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 2,696
    edited March 2020

    DS doesn't have the tools other 3d programs do. Like the ability to use a lower poly version to drive the animation of a high poly detailed version. You can't really get any detail without having polygons, you won't be able to get any folds if there is no polygons to bend.If you turn on wireframe in MD, you will see that MD garment mesh is not exactly low poly either.

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    Post edited by TheKD on
  • rmrf2003rmrf2003 Posts: 23
    hansolocambo said:

    The brains behind Marvelous Designer would be much welcomed in Daz. Imagine the insane power of Marvelous combined to DAZ. The best human creation tool + the best physics engine for soft bodies. Damn....

    Truth is : most of the paid clothes you find around are made by people who don't know what low poly is. And they provide sometimes very good looking clothes, but the wireframe is so dense that no physics solution can calculate anything. Export a Genesis Character and import as Avatar in Marvelous. Then Export a simple short skirt and import it as garment in Marvelous : you won't be more able to calculate any cloth physics in the very best tool that exists more than you could in DAZ. Reason is not so much the physics engines : it's the meshes density. 

    If Marvelous works so insanely well it's because you can change the wireframe on the fly while generating UVs for : later

    You work with a low triangles/quad density. And when it all looks great (folds, creases, etc), then and only then do you eventually subdivide, redo a topology, etc. dforce applies to object that are not thought for physics. 

    In order for dforce to work someday, DAZ needs to code an auto-retopo/optimizer tool that manages to remesh an object while preserving UVs. Then we can Dforce the low poly.

    Or artists need to stop thinking "Base" mesh in hundreds of thousands of polygons. Even Pixar does work with way lower wireframes than that. And they know what they're doing.

    I agree 100% what you say. DAZ and Artists does not what is 3D. I buy some packages on AZ and then I export them to blender to check model. HORROR.

    Cloths have interlaced surfaces

    meshing is horrible

    2 examples I got yesterday:

    1) in a dress the author have 2 parallele surfaces in a clothe. I try to understand why ? I never find the answer !

    2) I used in a render a simple prop (I dont have time to model one): a table (6 cubes). In the model I found 283 vertices UNUSED !  INCREDIBLE !!!!

    Nobody in DAZ QA check sold models ! most of times they are shit !

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,484

    you get what you pay fordevil

    DAZ stuff is pretty cheap

  • ZilvergrafixZilvergrafix Posts: 1,385

    a thread from 2018, issue in 2020 got fixed with dforce weight map node.

  • jkp_3866146jkp_3866146 Posts: 17

    Turning off Self collide on the surface has helped me with dforce explosions.

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