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iray - environment map, hdr and background... which?

manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 1,414
edited March 2018 in Daz Studio Discussion

still learning how to work with iray's render settings interface/panel.

and i've spent all afternoon trying to find a fitting sky background/environment. there are free hdr, however many sites ask for registration because they use carts, or they just are not what i want. i finally found one (btw i know about the free hdr thread!) i'd like to use - and i still can't manage to get my sky.
if i use the hdr (they are extra-wide) as environment map and draw dome, the background is all crumpled together. if i cut a square/rectangle fitting my image's proportions it doesn't crumple, but once on the dome, it looks weird. i even tried using the hdr as environment, NOT draw dome but use the square image as a backdrop, and it still looks wonky.

what am i doing wrong, and how can i make it right?

Post edited by manekiNeko on

Comments

  • manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 1,414
    edited March 2018

    guys? anyone? halp?

    i'm sure it's only a detail i'm missing, i mean, i'm not completely stupid. but there is something my mind can obviously not wrap itself around...

    Post edited by manekiNeko on
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,162

    If I understand correctly you are using an HDRI in the environment map for the dome but it isn't being rendered properly. The HDRI has to be in 2x1 format e.g. 4000x2000 pixels anything else will distort.

  • manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 1,414
    edited March 2018
    Fishtales said:

    If I understand correctly you are using an HDRI in the environment map for the dome but it isn't being rendered properly. The HDRI has to be in 2x1 format e.g. 4000x2000 pixels anything else will distort.

    ok. i didn't think of those 2x1 proportions.. now, with the hdri pack i've got for free, there are 3 items: 1 hdri, 1 exr (both of which i can't open/edit with gimp, i have no PS) and 1 jpg, latter being the only one i can edit - cut to 2x1 - it will have to do. probably less quality, but from the 3 sizes offered, i can take the bigger one i.e. 7500x1875 and make it 3750x1875.. this should work then. thank you for the heads up ^^

    edited to add: well.. the distorsion is probably gone (hard to say with clouds) - but the background/visible dome looks still very weird for a sky.. the clouds are not high above the horizon but touching it, they're overblown, all you see is fluff. and i tried resizing the image up/down, then rotating all possible dome axes.. looks awful. and nothing like the original's view. how i miss the 3dl sky domes >_<

    i might splurge for an iray sky pack made specially for DS here in the shop because i'm not ging thru this every time i want some patch of sky...

    Post edited by manekiNeko on
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,162

    You can open the HDRI in IrFanview 64 Bit and edit it. The .exr can also be opened in IrFanview but only the 32 Bit version, or at least it does on my system :)

    http://www.irfanview.com/

    Download the Plugins too for each version.

  • manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 1,414
    edited March 2018
    Fishtales said:

    You can open the HDRI in IrFanview 64 Bit and edit it. The .exr can also be opened in IrFanview but only the 32 Bit version, or at least it does on my system :)

    http://www.irfanview.com/

    Download the Plugins too for each version.

    hey thanks, awesome program irfanview! i use faststone for all viewer needs but this seems way complexer. i installed the 64bit + plugins first. i'll get the 32 tomorrow. funny thing is, even with the "formats" plugin installed (hdr is listed!), IV64 refuses to open my hdr. EDIT: but it opened my exr! so i guess you inverted the particularities of 32/64 bit)

    and even if my sky issue can't be solved here (maybe i just need a different image), at least now i installed this great viewer ^^ - thanx @Fishtales!

    Post edited by manekiNeko on
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,162

    I downloaded the new version and .exr images are now opening in the 64 Bit version :) Make sure you select images only and they are all ticked in properties/settings/extensions.

  • manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 1,414
    Fishtales said:

    I downloaded the new version and .exr images are now opening in the 64 Bit version :) Make sure you select images only and they are all ticked in properties/settings/extensions.

    hmm.. i thought about the extensions panel yesterday.. but just opened it quickly without modifying anything, since i don't want irfanview to default open my images (for this i still prefer faststone which i know better and i love its UI).. so i'll check it again, thanks ^^

  • GaryHGaryH Posts: 66
    edited March 2018
    manekiNeko said:
    Fishtales said:
     - but the background/visible dome looks still very weird for a sky.. the clouds are not high above the horizon but touching it, they're overblown, all you see is fluff. and i tried resizing the image up/down, then rotating all possible dome axes.. looks awful. and nothing like the original's view. how i miss the 3dl sky domes >_<

    It sounds like the HDR image you are using is not a 360 degree spherical panorama.

    Post edited by GaryH on
  • manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 1,414
    garyh.pub said:
    manekiNeko said:
    Fishtales said:
     - but the background/visible dome looks still very weird for a sky.. the clouds are not high above the horizon but touching it, they're overblown, all you see is fluff. and i tried resizing the image up/down, then rotating all possible dome axes.. looks awful. and nothing like the original's view. how i miss the 3dl sky domes >_<

    It sounds like the HDR image you are using is not a 360 degree spherical panorama.

    actually the site says it is spherical.. unless something escapes me, like this free download not being the full product. -> http://www.sky-domes.com/?page_id=334
    i have no clue, never dealt with hdri etc up to now, had no need to.

    maybe the problem i have is just that i picked a full sky, but my image is a beach with the sea horizon.. the clouds should start higher. didn't have time to test further, i'm busy with sth else right now ~

  • GaryHGaryH Posts: 66
    edited March 2018

    There is something wrong with those .hdr files.   They don't behave as spherical panoramas - they appear to be just flat jpegs

    Grab the free LizardQ Viewer https://www.lizardq.com/en/viewer/  to see what hdr files should like like before you load them into Daz.  It also tells you their resolution which I find useful.  When loading the files you linked to they just appear as a flat image when moved around.  

    I've linked to a 2:1 scrunched ratio version of this file that I did in PS.  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Qwi3vWPEObpqs-WcKlaRbQat6w4axaD-/view?usp=sharing

    It's probably as good as you're going to get with this source.  I've found that setting the Environment to a Finite sphere with the dome radius and dome scale multiplier both set to 60 looks better that Infinite.

    Here's what it looks like in DS:  

    Cloud HDR capture.jpg
    1346 x 1365 - 405K
    Post edited by GaryH on
  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,162

    I have those HDRI and they work fine in the Iray dome. I am downloading them again to see if there is a difference in them from the ones I have.

  • FishtalesFishtales Posts: 6,162

    They are the same but I just noticed they are in 4x1 aspect and the HDRI aren't showing so I must have used the .exr files in my renders. I will have a look and see if I can find a render using one. I can't find one but I tried one in the Dome and it doesn't fit so I must have dreamt I used them :)

  • manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 1,414
    garyh.pub said:

    There is something wrong with those .hdr files.   They don't behave as spherical panoramas - they appear to be just flat jpegs

    Grab the free LizardQ Viewer https://www.lizardq.com/en/viewer/  to see what hdr files should like like before you load them into Daz.  It also tells you their resolution which I find useful.  When loading the files you linked to they just appear as a flat image when moved around.  

    I've linked to a 2:1 scrunched ratio version of this file that I did in PS.  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Qwi3vWPEObpqs-WcKlaRbQat6w4axaD-/view?usp=sharing

    It's probably as good as you're going to get with this source.  I've found that setting the Environment to a Finite sphere with the dome radius and dome scale multiplier both set to 60 looks better that Infinite.

    Here's what it looks like in DS:  

    ok thanks for the info @garyh.pub, the hdr file & the link to that viewer (another interesting addition to my progs ^^).
    i'll have to test all of that later tonight. i'll report then how it looks with my scene :)

    actually, the thought of "why don't they look all weird rounded like others i've seen" crossed my mind. but as i said, i can't make much sense of anything hdr/panorama related... not realy wanting to learn much more than what i need about them either, i already have so much stuff to integrate..

     

     

     

  • GaryHGaryH Posts: 66
    Fishtales said:

    They are the same but I just noticed they are in 4x1 aspect and the HDRI aren't showing so I must have used the .exr files in my renders. I will have a look and see if I can find a render using one. I can't find one but I tried one in the Dome and it doesn't fit so I must have dreamt I used them :)

    Yeah, the poles of the sphere are seriously messed up, and the resolution doesn't match the description.  I wouldn't waste more time with this file.  There are much better choices including the excellent, FREE, Dutch Skies 360 hdrs.  Yes, you have to register but you won't get spammed, and in return you'll be getting some high quality, truly useful 4K and 11K resolution hdrs, including background plates.  For manekiNeko's purpose, I think the DF360-006 hdr would work really well.  But be warned it's a massive 600MB download!

    All the free hdr sets:  https://www.dutch360hdr.com/shop/product-category/free-360-hdri/

    The DF360-006 set:  https://www.dutch360hdr.com/shop/product/df360-006/

  • manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 1,414
    garyh.pub said:
    Fishtales said:

    They are the same but I just noticed they are in 4x1 aspect and the HDRI aren't showing so I must have used the .exr files in my renders. I will have a look and see if I can find a render using one. I can't find one but I tried one in the Dome and it doesn't fit so I must have dreamt I used them :)

    Yeah, the poles of the sphere are seriously messed up, and the resolution doesn't match the description.  I wouldn't waste more time with this file.  There are much better choices including the excellent, FREE, Dutch Skies 360 hdrs.  Yes, you have to register but you won't get spammed, and in return you'll be getting some high quality, truly useful 4K and 11K resolution hdrs, including background plates.  For manekiNeko's purpose, I think the DF360-006 hdr would work really well.  But be warned it's a massive 600MB download!

    All the free hdr sets:  https://www.dutch360hdr.com/shop/product-category/free-360-hdri/

    The DF360-006 set:  https://www.dutch360hdr.com/shop/product/df360-006/

    sorry for the late reply.. i was quite under the weather, haven't used DS for quite a while now, over a week or two.

    thanks @garyh.pub for the last links - i think i've seen that site somehow but i'll check again. and you're right, it was a bad choice anyways, this sky i picked. i gave up on that one. besides the whole tech issues, just from the picture itself, if i had mountains in my scene or anything not flat, it might have fit but not on a beach with horizon. and i just realized that for some reason that i can't figure yet, i have new HDR in my DIM. no idea where they come from. maybe an update to some base content?? one of them might do the trick - otherwise i'll find a new picture from those links or wherever.

    this whole thread was very useful anyways, just for the tips & the new software and all links ^^ so thanks again!

  • ConnaticConnatic Posts: 282

    Here are some great free hdri's that I use often.
    https://hdrihaven.com/

  • manekiNekomanekiNeko Posts: 1,414
    Connatic said:

    Here are some great free hdri's that I use often.
    https://hdrihaven.com/

    this site is awesome, i just got a rec for it too! ^^

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