Confused with all the different models (Gen, M4, M5...)
v-man
Posts: 0
Hi, all
I m fairly new to DAZ and I have some confusion regarding all the different models. So far I've purchased a couple of genesis related meshes, outfits , etc, but I am also seeing a number of other accessories that are compatible with other models like M4, M5 and so forth. What are the differences between these models. What if I have a genesis model with animations, etc I'd like to use but I run into an outfit that seems to be M4 only. Is there no way to convert that to genesis ? I purchased various genesis modules like muscularity, alive and so forth and I'd prefer to continue using genesis as my base model.
Oh, and what about all those generations ? Michael4 , 5 , Freak 4 , 5 , etc. What compatibility if any exists between those ?
On a different note - if I understand right DAZ3d basic license allows for commericial use of images rendered with their models as long as the models themselves are not included (e.g - a 2D sprite based game). It looks like one would need to purchase game license only if the meshes are distributed, otherwise basic license is sufficient, right ?
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Michael 4 (otherwise known as M4) is one of the generation 4 figures which came out before Genesis. He, along with Victoria 4, have completely different meshes to Genesis and to each other, meaning they cannot generally share outfits or accessories. However, Genesis comes with 'clone shapes' which allows it to use the older generation outfits to some degree.
Daz Studio will attempt to automatically convert outfits designed for these earlier generation figures when placed on Genesis via its autofit function. To use autofit, simply try fitting an outfit to Genesis that isn't normally designed for it and you'll get the autofit box up. Here you tell it what figure it was originally designed for, and the type of clothing it is. Click the Accept button to have your outfit of choice shrink-wrapped around your lovely Genesis figure.
Once converted to Genesis, the outfit will morph and scale along with the figure perfectly fine. Problem areas include shoes however, and especially skirts since these often have their own unique rigging for skirt movements in earlier generations.
Also, to clarify, any renders or animations produced using Daz products can be used or sold freely however you see fit. Anything involving the meshes, you are correct, or textures cannot be redistributed in a game without the Daz Indie Game License.
Thanks for the quick reply! So then if I m just building up my model collection is genesis the way to go ?
DAZ3D models come in 'generation', each generation marked with number - like 2, 3, 4.
In generation 1 and 2 each figure (Victoria 1 and 2 and similar Michael, Stephanie, Aiko) were a separate mesh with separate morphs and somewhat interchangeable textures but cross capabilities were very limited.
Generation 3 was first "unimesh", - while each figure was still a separate figure, all textures were more or less usable on each of figures and there were tricks that allowed to use morphs from some figures on others. The first officially released Freak, Hiro and David, Laurie and Luke (I think) are generation 3, and sometimes '3' is omitted, so if you see "The Freak" it mostly means The Freak of generation 3. Each figure could only wear clothes that were made exactly for it unless special crossdressing programs (limited at that point) were involved.
Generation 4 had only three actual meshes, - Victoria 4 (female mesh), Michael 4 (male mesh) and The Kids (child mesh). Those meshes are derived from each other but the rigging of each was different. It means that all textures at this generation were interchangeable and morphs could be transferred between meshes with much less hassle and better results (although not one-click anyway). Aiko 4, Stephanie 4, She-Freak 4 were morphpacks for Victoria, The Freak 4 and Hiro 4 were morphs for Michael 4 (there was no David 4 by some reason) and there were numerous morphpack that could turn Victoria 4 into believable male (Vittorio, Morphia) or Michael 4 into believable female (Michaella, Morphus). Each 'main' figure could only wear clothes that were made exactly for it, i.e. Victoria 4 could not wear Michael's 4 clothes without help of programs like Crossdresser. There were rare some clothes that were made for Aiko 4 as for default morph but Victoria 4 could still wear them with some adjustments.
Genesis is a generation 5. It is one default figure with previous and new 'figures' made actually made as morphpacks (i.e. no separate mesh or separate rigging). So Victoria 5, Michael 5 and Justin and Julie (new teens) and everything 'generation 5' are only morphs for Genesis and can be combined as you want them. In addition to his own textures Genesis can use textures from generation 4 via switchable UV layout function and has its own morphs (although there is a trick and/or also a costly utility to transfer morphs from Generation 4 and 3 to Genesis). There are also additional morphpacks for Iconic Shapes Generation 4 and Generation 3 that makes Genesis into close likeness of some of those older figures.
Genesis can wear any clothes designed for fifth generation with no problems, and through the function called "Autofit" can somewhat wear Generation 4 and (with Iconic Generation 3 Shapes morphs) some of generation 3 clothes but not all clothes autofit well, with shoes, skirts, anything with ghost bones and free-flowing scarves having the biggest problems.
Through all generation hair is, probably, the most freely swappable thing. Particular Genesis hair sometimes needed if you have extreme head shapes like toon or monster, but for human-like heads you can use most of the haircuts for any figures on any figures, although sometimes it is hard to adjust, say, Michael 4 hair to Aiko 3 head.
You right. As long as it is 2D image or prerendered animation (like a movie) you don't need game license. I believe you can even 3D print your models without it.
Kattey, thanks for the thorough history of the models. I understand this much better now. So it seems that I can just focus on purchasing genesis related stuff, as well as Micheal/Freak/Victoria 5 models then.
3d printing is subject to a separate license, which DAZ 3d have not yet released details of.
That depends on a few things. Firstly, if you're ever using young children in your work then Kids 4 (known as K4) might suit you better than the Genesis 'Basic Child' alternative since there's very little official support for them currently. While older K4 skins work on Genesis, there are no real morphs designed for the younger generation, and nothing new in terms of skin availability or clothing.
Secondly, there are some products which don't translate quite as well to Genesis. Generation X allows you to take many of the old V4 and M4 morphs onto Genesis, but it's not an exact science. Sadly, a lot of detail is still lost in the conversion, and you can't get an exact match for many of the old Gen 4 character shapes. It's great being able to mix and match them through the new triAx technology however, so you might consider that to be a benefit in disguise.
Genesis does have a big advantage in that the wardrobe for either sex will work on any morph used. This means that Michael 5 and Victoria 5's wardrobes are interchangeable, as they are with all Genesis characters. This is a huge benefit as it doesn't require conversion like Generation 4's autofits, so they can conform to the endless morphs and shapes Genesis provides.
Genesis is about flexibility and customization. If that sounds like your kind of deal, then you could do a lot worse than to take the plunge. Genesis comes as standard in Daz Studio 4.
Genesis is a best figure if you aim for variability and I greatly prefer its rigging to previous generations too.
Aside of Genesis stuff - if you see a good generation 4 texture or hair you like, you can use it with Genesis. If you see nice generation 3 or 4 clothes you like you might be able use it with Genesis (the closer to bodysuit it is the better it autofits, but shoes and boots almost always a problem). If you see a unique generation 3/4 morph that Genesis doesn't have so far there is a link in my signature and you can try to transfer it to Genesis (Gen-X utility in DAZ3D store does the same things more comfortably I believe; can't compare results). There are ways to even use Generation 3 textures on Genesis (I have a number of unique ones) if you like. So yes, in terms of variability, Genesis for me is a way to go now.
Before you are buying too many morphs for Genesis you should be aware that Genesis2 / Victoria6 is going to be available in a very short time, probably (from all we can guess) not compatible with the old morphs.
And what is the source of this knowledge?
Here's an example of Genesis wearing a Generation 3 "David 3" outfit, on three different full body morphs of Genesis, Jazmin, Basic child, David. It is a very flexible human model solution because almost all clothing outfits can be used on most body shapes.
And what is the source of this knowledge?
A statement made in the Member's Only Forum from a vendor who makes Genesis control morphs that said vendor will continue to provide support for both Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 models. I'd say that's a pretty telling statement.
A statement made in the Member's Only Forum from a vendor who makes Genesis control morphs that said vendor will continue to provide support for both Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 models. I'd say that's a pretty telling statement.
Ah, I see.
Anyway, there still will be a lot of time before Genesis 2 will catch up with Genesis in morph department. I highly doubt that transferring Infernal Behemoth or Justin and Julie is a top of DAZ3D priorities, when such priorities always been slim supermodel Caucasian females.
Ooopsie - I just wanted to warn v-man, who is new, that there may be a problem.
I don't like it when people are unhappy because they just bought something and now there is a new shiny ... whatever.
Of course there is Daz3d wonderful, generous and customerfriendly 30 days money back guarantee.
Although that seems to be true, if you need something that is not adult female, Genesis 1 is the only man/anime/toon/teen/child in town. In the past, it has taken months to release each category of figures in a new generation. We also don't know for sure how long it will take before V6 is released.
Hey there V-Man!
I like Genesis a lot. it is my main figure of choice. Generation 4 is like Wal-Mart, k-mart, sears. One building with one store. Genesis is a shopping mall.... one building with many stores to shop in. Lots of freedom to it. Plus, Generation 4 clothes fit to Genesis decently with autofit and smoothing.
A statement made in the Member's Only Forum from a vendor who makes Genesis control morphs that said vendor will continue to provide support for both Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 models. I'd say that's a pretty telling statement.
Ah, I see.
Anyway, there still will be a lot of time before Genesis 2 will catch up with Genesis in morph department. I highly doubt that transferring Infernal Behemoth or Justin and Julie is a top of DAZ3D priorities, when such priorities always been slim supermodel Caucasian females.
May this mean Genesis 2 morphs doesn't work in Genesis 1, but not mean Genesis 1 morphs doesn't work in genesis 2? Of course, regardless of the answer, genesis 2 morphs will be better morph and a better investment.
Expressions are another thing. With this stament it seems surely that it is not good idea buy genesis 1 expressions.
We have more questions than answers right now when it comes to the Genesis 2 figure and compatibility with other figures. All will be revealed in due time, I'm sure...my guess is that Genesis 2, or at least some more detailed information about it, is coming within a few days (I'm not basing that on any inside knowledge). There are some details that have been passed around, most of which haven't been officially confirmed, and of course there's lots of speculation about what it might be.
When it does come out, though, I'm confident that the new figure won't really change anything that's true right now of Genesis and the 4th Generation figures: they will still be available, the store will still carry a wide variety of products for them, new products will continue to be released for them, and of course they'll still have all their features and functions. Presumably many people will still be using them on a regular basis in the months and years to come.
Speaking for myself, I love Genesis and plan to keep on buying Genesis 1 products. I look forward to adding some Genesis 2 products too.