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'RELEASE THE KRACKKEN'
G2 Krakken morph set? :D
If what I googled on Krakken is true, I'm afraid some geo-grafting is needed ^^"
If what I googled on Krakken is true, I'm afraid some geo-grafting is needed ^^"
hmm?
Does Krakken have girly bits? or manly bits?
in which case, prolly have to wait for the Krakkn Pro bundle, and then i'll need a 2nd job to afford it.
a Pro bundle would have, seaweed hair options, tentacle texture options, one in pink!
Nice comparisons, Wowie. But I've seen people in all shapes and sizes, including women. Men and women can have similarities in body shape but no one is exactly the same.
For example. Some men have what people call a "beer belly". Most of their fat goes to their belly and very little throughout the whole body. For other men, the fat distributes all over the place not just the belly. Same for women.
Just because "gender specific morphs" may be a bit better in "some" areas doesn't erase the fact that a Unisex mesh is the one I prefer (and several others feel the same way). It gives me far more versatility and far more power to do what I want. I don't have to worry about "Gender Specific Morphs or clothes".
In saying that, both comparisons you have provided I've seen in real life and both are plausible.
These small differences between BF2 and Genesis are not significant enough to justify the gender split IMO.
where are the luv handles?
As I wrote earlier, you can make a 'counter' morph to fix the differences. Bear in mind you have to that for every morph that's different. There could be a lot of morphs you need loaded in the figure that you don't necessarily use.
I've been playing around with Genesis2Female and it's V4 shape, trying some of the joint bends. I have to say, I'm very impressed on how the figure holds the corrections I've made with almost every FBM and PBM. It was nearly impossible to do that in Gen4 and somewhat possible in Genesis (with the counter morphs I mentioned). But with this new figure, I don't need to.
That is possible, but why does the Evolution Heavy morph with M4 shape looks similar to the native Heavy morph for M4? Only DAZ can answer that. I'm just pointing at a possible reason why having gender specific bases are preferable.
If I understand correctly, that will be using two different morphs for the same thing, but targeted at different bases with the same figure. You could do that I suppose and with some ERC code hide the complexity for users. But you still end up with two morphs (more deltas).
Well, yes, just like Creature Creator Ogre and 3D Universe Ogre and Skullcrusher Ogre are all doing same thing - but it creates variety. And with unisex base figure for Genesis 2 but with two different morphpacks (one more 'feminine', one more 'masculine') it would help to create variety, instead caring for clothes for two separate figures.
Well, yes, just like Creature Creator Ogre and 3D Universe Ogre and Skullcrusher Ogre are all doing same thing - but it creates variety. And with unisex base figure for Genesis 2 but with two different morphpacks (one more 'feminine', one more 'masculine') it would help to create variety, instead caring for clothes for two separate figures.
Exactly this. I go back and forth in my mind on the gender split, but this argument that oh no we might need two versions of certain morphs is very unpersuasive. We've got whole morph categories that are Female and Male in genesis 1, and I've got literally hundreds. I've got like 4 different ways to make nostrils bigger. I would not be hesitant to embrace Heavy Female and Heavy Male as morphs for the same figure.
Just as a passing point, G2F Starter Essentials has popped up as an updated product for me in DIM.
What was updated?
Bug tracker listed the breast dials affecting the eyes as fixed, so that's probably in there. No idea if there are other changes.
So does V6.
So does V6.
Unless you use the built in full face smile dialed to max, that grin is downright creepy! Everything else you said I agree with.
OK then, here's something else to consider - corrective morphs, particularly for joint bends. In the third picture, I've applied some d-forms to Genesis M4 shape, to correct the butt and kness for this pose.
For the second pic, I change the shape to Genesis Base male. The changes to the butt looks pretty OK, but the knees are way overdone. So there are differences even in the same gender.
For the first pic, I switched the M4 shape to V4. The knee shape looked more like Genesis Basic Male's.
Going by your argument, then I will have to make different morphs to do the same thing for each shape, rig them carefully so they will only be applied to each respective shape and only when the influencing limbs are manipulated.
I don't see how the knees are way overdone. Looking at the comparisons you have provided they look very nearly the same with only slight differences.
The rest is also only a slight difference in bending quality. I'm glad your providing references so people can plainly see for themselves that BF2 is barely a step up in bending improvements. Not much of an upgrade IMO.
And yes, creating "Gender Specific" Morphs for BF2 (and soon to be BM2) will have to be made separately, even more so now than for Genesis. "Slightly" more realism isn't going to cut it here. BF2 and BM2 along with V6 will still never have the Morphing versatility of Genesis because Genesis is a Unisex mesh that can be realistically male or female.
Shall I now provide render references of M5 alongside V5 to prove this?
I'd love to see them, thank you.
Edit: Missed this.
Just to avoid confusion, those are with Genesis and not Genesis2. None of the renders I posted are with the Genesis2 Base.
What purpose would that accomplish, though? One can morph a sphere into convincing male and female figures with enough time and effort - that does not by any means make it a good base.
I was unhappy with the d-form set (didn't look right with M5), so I started another one. Here's a closeup of the knees in the viewport wireshaded mode.
M4 and M5 (second and third) looks nice, but V4 and V5 (first and last) clearly have some pinching to fix.
If you look closer at the mesh, you'll see the crease area are different in V4 compared to M4, M5(and to some degree, V5). I could fiddle around to get it right with V4 shape, but that will likely cause distortion in other shapes.
...hey guys, quick! There's a fire sale on Genesis "Classic" content.
...don't miss out on adding content to your library made for the most versatile figure mesh ever invented.
I almost wish I still had my pc membership because that sale. It must be amazing...
Wowie, at my opinion, because human body is extremely versatile, there is no '100% right' way to do the knee and all your pictures valid. I can see people on streets (thankfully, summer) with knees of all different shapes, in often unpredictable combinations with age, gender, level of thinness/thickness/musclemass. Does it mean that some of those knee shapes are more feminine, some more masculine and some are unrealistic because a different real guy has different shape of knee? Because I saw many knees on females that would be fine on males and otherwise.
As for bending, I see the point behind the comparison but I also think that just better done unisex rigging in unisex Genesis 2 would've solve those problems because nothing so far shown me otherwise.
I almost wish I still had my pc membership because that sale. It must be amazing...
Well, I have 99% of stuff I wanted to have already ^^"
Sure, Genesis and even Genesis2 probably could use better rigging. I still don't know why no one have ever attempted to make their own TriAx base figure (similar in concept to what Genesis supposed to be) or redid the weight mapping to achieve better results. Of course, you're welcome to try.
Simply put, I want something similar to this - http://exocortex.com/products/species
My point is not about which shape are feminine or masculine. With gender specific figures, morphs can be shaped for that particular figure rather than trying to make it work with all figures. For this example I picked the Heavy morph. But Genesis have a lot of shapes. What would the Heavy morph look on a toon figure, regardless of gender? On a troll or alien. How would my changes look? Or any morph available for that matter.
I think what Kattey is trying to say is that with a gender split system, you're only going to get 'feminine' morphs in general for the female figure and 'masculine' morphs for the men. In truth, there are plenty of males who exhibit feminine physical qualities (and no, I'm not just talking about 'moobs') as well as some arguably 'manly' women. A unimesh gets past that issue by allowing you to use both male and female morphs for the exact figure you need.
I think the real issue is that a lot of people, including myself, can't visualise how the mesh is so uniquely designed for women that it couldn't support a male figure as well as Genesis could. Considering people have already created male morphs for V6, I'd say that argument has already run flat.
Still, I'm putting away my pitchfork and dowsing those flames. I'm not fully sold on V6, though I did buy the starter bundle and morph packs to see if it was worth a bigger investment, but I can see there are genuine benefits to the mesh at least, and I'm interested to see what their future plans are for it. You might love it, you might hate it, but arguing isn't getting us anywhere fast.
Time to end the witch burnings...
Luthbel did :)
Also there is Millenium Horse 2 which I think is TriAx too.
/data/DAZ 3D/Genesis 2/Female/Morphs/DAZ 3D/Base/PBMNavel.dsf
/data/DAZ 3D/Genesis 2/Female/Genesis2Female.dsf yes the same send me and email told me to send what I already sent hope they get it fixed soon
Good luck with that
I think what Kattey is trying to say is that with a gender split system, you're only going to get 'feminine' morphs in general for the female figure and 'masculine' morphs for the men. In truth, there are plenty of males who exhibit feminine physical qualities (and no, I'm not just talking about 'moobs') as well as some arguably 'manly' women. A unimesh gets past that issue by allowing you to use both male and female morphs for the exact figure you need.
I think the real issue is that a lot of people, including myself, can't visualise how the mesh is so uniquely designed for women that it couldn't support a male figure as well as Genesis could. Considering people have already created male morphs for V6, I'd say that argument has already run flat.
Still, I'm putting away my pitchfork and dowsing those flames. I'm not fully sold on V6, though I did buy the starter bundle and morph packs to see if it was worth a bigger investment, but I can see there are genuine benefits to the mesh at least, and I'm interested to see what their future plans are for it. You might love it, you might hate it, but arguing isn't getting us anywhere fast.
Time to end the witch burnings...
All G1 shapes male or female, toon or monster can be converted to G2F, with a high probability, all G1 shapes male or female, toon or monster will be able to convert to G2M. D3D spoke about G2-to-G1 convertion, G1 would be the bridge between G2F and G2M. So, in morph I don't believe there are problems, but a change in flows of work. Problems come from uv-maps. Until I know, G2F doesn't work with any male UV and nobody had speak about M4 to G2M UV-map.
Render references of M5 alongside V5. Proof M5 is very masculine while V5 is very feminine.
1. Arms/Hands. See the difference here? More muscular arms for M5 while V5's are long and very feminine. A close look at the hands and M5's are definitely wider as well as thicker fingers. I've seen men and women with these kinds of hands.
2. Feet. Not much difference in the toes, but there is just enough to be able to tell which foot belongs to which figure and what is masculine and what isn't. Once more, I've seen men and women have these kinds of feet.
3. Hands: A closer look at the hands. Once more, M5's hands are thicker as well as his fingers. Nothing feminine about them.
4. Compare the back and hips. M5. more muscular, broad shoulders while V5 has more slender shoulders, wipe hips, narrow waist.
5. I don't think I need to point out the vast differences here. Everything is different here, even the neck. Both are distinctly the gender they represent.