I hate this sale roulette!
Peter Wade
Posts: 1,639
Before Daz's big re-vamp they used to tell you how long special offers were going to last and you could plan your buying. But they can't allow that any more!
So here we are with the Victoria 6 "Pro" Bundle which doesn't include the morphs or extra textures for the clothes, 30% off the morphs and textures for a limited period and one free item every day to the end of the month but no clue as to what it will be. Will the morphs and clothes textures be among the free items? Will the 30% reduction run out before the free items end? Is my best bet to buy the bundle, morphs and textures and hope aren't given away or wait while the free items are released and hope the sale offer doesn't end first?
Some people enjoy this sort of uncertainty, I hate it.
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Comments
According to scientific research, people are more willing to part with their money when faced with high pressure, and limited supply. Obviously in the digital world there is no such thing as limited supply, so they have to come up with other gimics. Charge ridiculous prices normally, but offer frequent "sales" for example. Not telling when sales are going to end, keeps people on their toes, and may convince some on the fence to jump and buy, when they might normally wait and see. It's consumer psychology at work prettymuch.
I find it frustrating. As much as a vow not to fall for such things and not buy under those circumstances, I do. As long as we do that, they will continue.
And it's also more fuel to go to other competitors due to frustrated customers....wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
Greetings,
Other competitors who aren't really producing/selling anything useful to someone who really enjoys using Genesis. shrug
-- Morgan
And it's also more fuel to go to other competitors due to frustrated customers....wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
I suppose it is a balancing act, how many extra sales you get against how many people you drive away. I wonder how effective if is? Another site I use (not a 3D content site) have frequent sales and they don't hide the end of their sales. In fact they go the other way, they often have a big animated countdown saying how many days, hours and minutes are left. I buy quite a few things from them and I don't get the feeling that I am being pushed around.
Other competitors who aren't really producing/selling anything useful to someone who really enjoys using Genesis. shrug
-- Morgan
Unfortunately I think DAZ feels safe because they know we have nowhere else to go.
I'm going to chime in on here because this is a complaint we see often and something we have discussed many times to try to fix. The biggest problem is it isn't at all simple to determine the sales end date because of the platform we use (Magento).
Here is an example of what I'm talking about. The Platinum Club discount is seen, by Magento, as a constant sale running for a particular group. So, by how the system sees discounts and sales prices, all items which receive PC discounts are on permanent sale, no end date. Secondly, sales stack, often not lining up at the same time, and this happens often. It is a good thing and something Daz wants because it gives you guys deeper discounts and it helps our PAs sell more items and encourage them to produce more great art. However, as is often the case, if a 10% sales rule ends on a Wednesday, and an additional 30% rule ends on a Friday, and the PC discount goes indefinitely, what is the "sales end date"? Is it the day that it goes up in price slightly? The day that it goes back to the permanent sales pricing? Also, if a sales only affects one group of customers (Platinum Club) or different durations depending on if you're PC or not, then displaying if an item is on sale or not would require even more consideration of who is looking at it, if they are logged in, and how the different rules are staggered. Another example, similar but not the same is if a product goes on sale on Wed to Wed (1 week) and it says the end date, then goes on a deeper discount for one day... changing the end date, or not informing of when the current level of discount ends, or anything is going to make customers upset.
So, that brings up the possibility of hard coding the PC rule to not count as a sale, and lower the amount of sales and discounts we offer so they don't overlap and cause potential issues of customers feeling like they were misled. However, from a flexibility stand point to be able to respond to any given PA who comes to us and says "I want my store on sale from X date to X date" or "I want a flash sale today even though some of my products are already on sale" a lot more limiting and would effectively bind our hands in not being able to bring everyone the kind of pricing you are used to, and also with the lower price, the more people that want to pick it up which helps our PAs so they have enough sales so they feel that Daz is really doing as much as we can to make continuing to produce great art for the community a worthwhile investment of their time.
So, basically because of the complexity to accurately do this and either the promotional limitations (which I know no one who shops here says "I don't want to pay less for that item".. I know I don't) or the complications and basically untrustworthy and misinforming end dates, has pushed this particular goal to get the sales end dates out there behind other projects like increasing the value and benefits of Platinum Club, working to bring galleries back better than they were before, fix the numerous forum problems, provide a better site experience and easier ways to get and manage your content with both Install Manager and the Product Library, etc.
Unfortunately I think DAZ feels safe because they know we have nowhere else to go.
I don't use Genesis, mainly generation 3 and 4 figures, so I won't be that effected. :D
Thank you for addressing the issue, Jon. I can't say that I follow the explanation fully, but I truly appreciate the effort. After enduring the seemingly endless battle to get this site converted last year, I get disgusted every time things do not work as they should. I also tend to forget that there has been progress in some areas, the best example being DIM. Part of the problem as far as I'm concerned is very poor and infrequent communication. A post like this one every once in a while would make a huge difference, at least to some of us.
Yeah, I hate this actually...
1. I actually don't have the money to really buy everything that's essential to me, whether it be the Genesis 2 Morphs, the Pro Bundle itself, or even the V4 Iconic Shape.
2. I seriously want to wait and see if maybe everything I want will eventually be in a Pro Suite, but I'm also really interested in all the free daily stuff.
3. All this is happening RIGHT after I get David 5. WHY isn't any of this being held off until DS5? DAZ gave us absolutely no time to really play around with our last major purchases before suddenly springing Genesis 2 and Gen 6 out of nowhere at us with no REAL build-up hype and financial planning whatsoever.
I can't believe that for once I am NOT happy to see an Iconic character come out! D:
I had an idea that would turn out to be the reason.
Actually, that isn't the only "biggest problem". Sale end dates were relatively straightforward in the old store compared to what we have now because we didn't have the constant frenzy of overlapping, duelling sales. In general, there was the PC discount, and the intro discount, and the occasional event with a known fixed period like the March Madness/PC/PA sales. And that was it. Now it's a mess.
The way of DAZ sale usually luck clear announcement. and not planned well for user convinience.
I do not care how many items DAZ will release,
or ceparate base figure by sex ,but DAZ need to clear guide about everything.
eg, Nyssa character of V6 bundle need Genesis 2 Female Body Morphs ,
Genesis 2 Female Head Morphs ,
but there is no clear documents about the bundle product page.
and I could not understand how Can I get genesis2.
If I have known it is free,, I might not to buy V6.
You can return any product except PC membership (and I believe Gift Certificates) within 30 days from purchase.
Go there: https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/requests/new
Open a new ticket, ask for refund, designate to Sales Departments, provide the name, date and number of your order/returned product and if you prefer a store credit or refund back to your initial method of purchase (credit card/PayPal).
Katty , How many Items I can refund or not, it can not be excuse of bad way business.
I don't think there is a limit to how many items you return.
I, for one, am waiting until July 1st and then I am returning:
Victoria 6 Pro Bundle
Genesis 2 Female(s) Morphs Bundle
ToXic Nordic
Pumps 2 for Victoria 6
Victoria 4 for Genesis 2 Female
String Bikini for Victoria 6 Textures
Damsels and Divas - Poses
Caped Rogue Textures
Darkwoods Heroine Textures
Garden Party Dress Textures
Club 58 Dress Textures
So pretty much everything I purchased related to Gen 2 / V6.
I bought these because of the "free items until the end of the month" promotion, assuming that they would be Gen 2 related. Instead they turned out to be random older items.
When I asked support if provisions would be given to those who had already bought the promo items I was told: "too bad so sad" those are out of my 30 day window.
I think the sale price you get loaded into your shopping cart should be good for 24 hours to check out.... I have had prices esp. for these flash sales change off when I process with no warning or notice unless you go verify your order after it is processed. Also all these sales are really going to hurt the big events like the PC club renewal, PA sales, or March Madness..... I wonder if these will just be discontinued.
I have been a PC member for a few years now and have made thousands of dollars worth of purchases from DAZ.
I hate coming to daz3d.com, because I am like a kid in a candy store. Everything I see I want. Unfortunately what I get a lot of times is not what I thought I was buying.
I really need to learn to discipline myself.
I understand a lot of what Jon is saying. However This is the burden of the business and should not be laid on the customers shoulders.
As far as when a sale will begin and when it will end and what is being sold, is known in advance. Do not kid us, we are not stupid.
As for overlapping sales, that is a simple matter of mathematics. for example if the PC member is getting an indefinite 10% discount and that Item goes on sale for 1 week at 30% off then that PC member should be able to get it at a 40% discount, during that week. Any algorithm coding can take care of that.
But lets face it, every business has its mishaps. Things go wrong every day. its the Nature of things. That's where daz3d has loyal customers. We often can sympathize with the turmoil of trying to keep every customer happy.
However I would like to say that daz3d has been vague, misleading and often known to put the Cart before the Horse.
What I mean by that is like when DAZ Studio 4 Came out. All the Hype as this was going to be the new way and everything and they started selling the new program before all the merchants had a chance to do the upgrades on their product to be able to use DS4.
I remember waiting months before I could start using it.
They Claim that V6 is all this great stuff. More ability to go from Female to Male? hmmm I was thinking Genesis was already doing that.
Go from Human form to Monster? Again I thought Genesis was already doing that to an extent. However those Monsters were pretty much set to a known standard, be it Troll, Wolf, Anubis, Exo, Goblin, Orge, Zombie or whatever.
What I was hoping for was the true freedom of the Artist to Morph Victoria 6 into whatever we wished. Like being able to unparent all parts of V6 so I can do things like " Unhinge her lower jaw so I may lower it down to create a vampires similar to the ones shown in the Movie "Van Helsing".
Actually I have yet to see any improvement.
Don't get me wrong, it might be there, it just has not jumped out at me and impressed me yet.
And to Dangle a Carrot in front of the Mule? "Purchase Victoria Pro Bundle and get a Free gift every day of the rest of June"?
And then not send that email with the Link to those free Gifts?
The Link in my Email took me to the Victoria 6's Item Page. This lead me to believe that I can pick 1 free Gift per Day.
To Sale a Pro Bundle without the Morphs for that Product??? Ok that was simply done on purpose daz, come on.
I had placed a ticket for help because Daz was still charging me full price. well ok My Bad, I am now informed that those were not the free gifts. No after a couple of days research I finally found some kind soul that gave the Link to the page where the free gifts were. on a promo page waaaaaay down at the bottom. Giving away stuff I don't want anyways. But Hey! its Free so today I got the living room set and guess what! They charged me full price.
I am waiting for my Mom to come back from the Grave and Smack me with a ruler. I have been burnt enough times now. daz3D sales seems to always make me spend more for less then if I just go there and find the item I need in my art and purchase it without a discount.
At least I know what I am getting.
I sympathise with the "Kid in a Candy Store" feeling. I have bought loads of stuff from Daz, 5 days into the Victoria 6 offer and there has only been one free item that I haven't already bought! The downside of this (apart from the cost) is that I seem to spend more time installing stuff, putting it into my database, categorising it in Daz Studio, putting it into Poser favourites and trying it out than I spend actually creating pictures!
Concerning sale end dates, I suspect that what is happening here is a variation of what I have seen in my work. When I started working as a software developer there weren't many package solutions available. We used to design systems to fit the user requirements. These days a lot of companies don't want to go to this level of effort, they look for a ready made solution. I remember an especially bad project trying to force a 4th generation language and screen forms package to do things it was never designed to do.
It looks like a fairly simple problem, for overlapping sales you just give each sale a priority level and the system displays the highest prioity one, when the one day flash sale finishes it goes back to saying 30% off ends on day x. But if this isn't a feature of the package they are using it might be difficult or impossible to do it.
If I walk into a brick & mortar store and something is on sale, there is rarely if ever any sign of when the sale will end. Sometimes it's obviously a clearance (older) item and sometimes it's a promotion for a new product, but if I want it and the price is right, I buy it. If I don't have the money, or I feel it's still too expensive, I wait. Maybe I will get it at some point and maybe I won't. When I see a 70% flash sale (or any other sale for that matter) at daz, I check my wishlist, scan through and often as not buy something. But if I don't have the money, or I feel it's still too expensive, I wait. In both cases, I can't fault the stores for trying to make sales.
What i miss was knowing roughly when a major release was going to take place a few months in advanced so I could save up for it, not having a new Pro Bundle every month, and not having constant sales.
Because of the constant sales I did not buy as much as I would have doing March Madness and the same will hold true for the PA sale, as many things I would have bought I purchased at other sales.
The new Pro Bundle every month is frustrating as I hardly get time to play around with what is in a bundle before a new one is released. Plus, the build up an excitement to new figures isn't the same as it was in the past.
I don't like how we are getting the Gen 6 now considering that many of the Gen 5 figures aren't even a year old and we finally started to see a good bit of clothing, characters, etc. get released for the Gen 5 just in the past few months.
Yeah rebuilding of the DAZ Studio and Genesis is moving to fast for me also.
Yeah its great to have the Latest and Greatest, as long as I can continue to use my resources.
But if I am being asked to rebuy my resources to, so I can use them with the Latest and Greatest, that could get into some serious money.
I am going to have to make me a rule. (and pray I can stick to it).
1. Use what I have and build upon it. I get more out of my art that way.
2. Don't buy the new product right out of the shoot, just because it looks like a great sales price. Many times I jumped on that sales price just to find its being given away for free attached to a new upgrade later down the road, and after all the bugs have been worked out.
3. Read the Forums about people whom bought the new Product. and even then take what they say with a grain of salt. A lot of people may like the product because it works for them and their style of Art, when it may not enhance your style that much.
Yeah that means I will no longer have the Latest and Greatest.... But my Credit Card will love me.
I have already grumbled about the confusing sales, and I don't buy because I feel I do not understand what I am doing.
With regards to sale end dates... I understand the technical limitations of Magento, but there's nothing stopping that information from being plastered across item descriptions or sale promo images, is there? Or forum posts with all the relevant information for those who want to dig for it...?
I have noticed that from time to time in the promo images recently ("this weekend only!" etc) and have appreciated it :D
I actually can't wait for the next pro figure, particularly if it is gen 6 and male. I love the gen 6 line. =-)
...as I should have expected, yet another thing Magento "cannot do"
So if Magento cannot support features and services which were staples of the Daz website and store (such as vouchers, sale dates, the galleries etc...) how does that improve the user/community experience? I mean isn't that what a site "update" is supposed to do?
Form what I have seen over the past fourteen months it has been more of a "downgrade".
This is the best summary I've seen regarding the latest sales problem/strategy. It should NOT be the burden of the customers to figure out everything we need to buy to get the discount and also figure out if it's actually bargain. Maybe Daz IS doing their best with the crappy software package they bought, but it is not my problem. A company facing this problem either resolves it internally or passes it to the customer. For myself, this is not personal with any of the individuals who work with or for Daz. There really are a lot of great people there. It's just business for me, the consumer, same as for Daz. My choice is "buy, or not to buy".
So aaaannyway, I'm saving TONS of money because I've almost completely stopped buying from Daz the last few months. It's just easier for me to say "too much work, screw it!" and move on to another site.
This is the best summary I've seen regarding the latest sales problem/strategy. It should NOT be the burden of the customers to figure out everything we need to buy to get the discount and also figure out if it's actually bargain. Maybe Daz IS doing their best with the crappy software package they bought, but it is not my problem. A company facing this problem either resolves it internally or passes it to the customer. For myself, this is not personal with any of the individuals who work with or for Daz. There really are a lot of great people there. It's just business for me, the consumer, same as for Daz. My choice is "buy, or not to buy".
So aaaannyway, I'm saving TONS of money because I've almost completely stopped buying from Daz the last few months. It's just easier for me to say "too much work, screw it!" and move on to another site.
I agree, combine it with the promo emails that arrive offering one price only to come to the shop and find a different price.
And as from today I'm finding it a bit harder to believe 'the software can't do it' especially when you see the same software doing it elsewhere.