Adding more knuckles to fingers?
thistledownsname
Posts: 1,331
Odd and creepy one. I want to add more joints to a person's finders. Specifically instead of the typical human base +2 joints, I want them to be base +4 (on extra-long fingers, but there's morphs for that).
Am I looking at a long and difficult process where it'd be easier to fake it with a mostly-invisible overlayed clone, or is there some sneaky way to do this?
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Actualy, due to positioning, the clone won't work either, so it'll have to be a mod of some sort.
This would be an obvious candidate for a GeoGraft - take a loop of vertices near the base of each finger, delete the mesh around it, and extrude to create new multi-joint figners (what you do after that ring od vertices is up to you, the ring is where they will weld to the base figure and is sacrosanct). Then in DS you rig using the Transfer Utility, set up grafts and hide groups with the Geometry Editor, and insert the extra bones with the Joint Editor before weight-mapping them with the Geometry Editor adn node Weight Paint brush tool.
Unfortunately that went mostly over my head (as I had a feeling it would). I can almost follow along with the theory of that, but have only really used hexagon once and was walked through that. I guess it's time to find a good tutorial on it.
Hmm. I figured out how to just add bones, but the resolution of the weight map is too poor to make it work.
A weight map isn't an image, with a resolution - it's a map in the sense that it's a list of things (weights here) that maps to another list (the vertices of the mesh). That's why you would need a new set of finger mesh, to give not only the shape needed for the extra figners but also enough vertices to define each bend.
Sorry, what I meant by poor resolution was that there were not enough vertices in the finger mesh.
So, I managed to get the extruding and alignment done for 2 fingers, and brought it back into daz. But when I did the Transfer utility, it moved it about 2 feet above the head and out a bit. Any idea why?
The mesh must line up with the zeroed figure as loaded, no morphs or transforms or poses are allowed when creating geoGrafts (and they can be fiddly to work with in general cofnorming figures).
Ok, that fixed it. I got the geograft made and imported, and got the bones set up. But I'm running into trouble with the weightmapping. Some areas it auto-mapped it based on the normal figures, and no matter how many times I run the brushes over the map it won't let go of those vertices.
Painting weight on another map should subract from the existing weights, since they are nomrlaised (all the weights on a vertex must add up to 1).
Got it, worked out the weight map. So, it should be rigged now, but some of the bones are having trouble. The 3rd, 4th, and 5th bones in each finger work fine and move the rest of the finger appropriately. But the 1st and 2nd on each are doing a weird lever sort of thing where the following bone counter-rotates to keep the rest of the finger from rotating.
There's also some weirdness on turning on/off visibility for a boned section. Some bones don't turn off the image for their weight-mapped areas, and others are affecting the image on other fingers.
Are you sure the bones are each children of the one before? That sounds a like the effect you would get if the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd are sibblings and only the later bones are children (of the the 3rd). If that is the issue the Joint Editor can be used to reparent, right-click menu as I recall.
In order for the bone visibility to do anything you must have the polygons you want to hide assigned to a separate group, and that group must be set as the Selection Group for the bone (at top-right of the Tool Settings pane with the Joint Editor active).
Hmm. Ok, I deleted the bones for one of the fingers and remade them, and that was certainly the problem. But I can't find a button to change them from sibling to child without re-creating them (and rebuilding the weight maps)
Select the 3rd finger, with the Joint Editor active right-click in the Viewport and select Edit>Reparent Bone, select the 2nd finger, then test - assuming that works do the same with the 2nd figner selected, parent it to the 1st.
Tried that - does not fix it.
Ok, I found I only had to delete segments 2 and 3, recreating them as child bones of 1. 4 and 5 I could then re-parent with the menu you showed. So not a complete re-do of the weight map.
I think we're getting there. All the bones are moving properly and the visibility is working. Moving from here though...
I should be able to save it out as a wearable preset, right? It's not letting me.
It takes re-posing the figure fine, but if I apply any morphs to G3F, the bones disconnect.
I also have a need for a figure like this! When you get it made, would you consider selling it? And for how much? By selling, I mean the right to do a render with it for a book cover lol standard DAZ license. Thanks!
I was actually considering posting it on ShareCG, but I've never shared any created things like this before.
This is the design I'm trying for, btw.
You need to save it as a Figure/Prop asset first - File>Save As>Support Assets. The Author and Product names you enter are used for folder names in the Data folder of the content directory you save to, then you get a character preset that will load the item (though in this case a Wearable preset saved after saving the asset would be the sensible file to share, along with the Data folders).
Ok, I got it saved out as the support asset no problems. But the morphs are still being a problem. The bones all disconnect from their roots. Here's an example of dialing in Ciara.
You need to memorise the rigging in the default state (Joint Editor right-click menu) then use Adjust Rigging to Shape with the morph applied, then ERC Freeze (right-click to put the Parameetrs pane in Edit mode, then right-click on the morph slider) to link the joint changes to the morph.
Hmm. Something's not working there.
Memorize Figure Rigging: check
Apply Ciara morph to G3F: check
hand-> edit-> Adjust Rigging to Shape: comes up to a dialog box, with all the bones and face groups checked, and Adjust Center Points and Adjust End Points checked, but Adjust Orientation no checked. Accept and the figures in the viewport go crazy. Hmm.
Edit mode: check
rightclick near the parameter -> ERC Freeze: another dialog box.
Which figure is selected when you try to adjust rigging to shape? I'm not sure, it's possible that you need to do this with the GeoGraft not fitted to the base figure.
I had the hand selected when I did the Adjust Rigging to Shape. If I unparent it first I get the same result.
Not unparent, unfitted. Parametrs pane, Fit to button and select None.
Found it. Unfitting move the graft off the hand and in line with the bones. Then when I did the Adjust Rigging to Shape some big new bones appeared, generally anchored to between G3F's feet or each other.
Had you memorised the rigging for the hand? The adjustment works by moving the bones so their ends are in the same place relative to the morphed mesh as they are in the memorised state relative to the unmorphed mesh.
Yeah, I started with that.
Then I don't know what the issue may be, sorry.
Had to step away for the weekend. Thanks for all your help so far. I'll be poking at it more today to see where I can get it.