A Review Of Genesis 2 Female & Victoria 6

RCDeschene

Okay, after much self-debate, decision making, and financial planning, I caved in and bought the G2F Morph and V6 Pro Bundles on the last day of June to ensure I made a sales purchase with the June coupon, even though ideally I would liked to have waited before seeing if there would be a "Victoria 6 3D Model Pro Suite" type of deal. However, I eventually came to the reasoning that if one were to occur, why didn't it come along side the rest of the major G2F/V6 launches? If one still comes out at this point, I'll see if I can get an upgrade with an additional cost for the extra content...

But anyway, that's not what this topic is about. This is about my personal review of a figure that I wasn't sure whether or not I would enjoy because of the loss of unisex versatility from it's predecessor, Genesis 1. However, after playing around with the morphs and content, I must confess that I am actually quite impressed with the much finer way things morph on the figure. Dials such as arms, hips and legs give shape far more effectively with far less distortion than ever before on any DAZ figure. Dealing with facial proportions feels more fluid and well-blended. The base figure itself, overall on a morphing scale, and just by visual appearance itself actually does look much better worked on than any Basic Female shape on Genesis 1. What makes all of this so much better is that just about every morph has it's own asymmetrical dials if one so happens to need them. But the big one for me personally was that almost every morph can dial in both positive and negative fields! No more do I have to go into the Parameter Settings just to unlock the negative range on morphs that should have had them available by default on the original Genesis figure.

As far as clothing and other add-ons go, they, too feel better-handled and converted far more efficiently. Most Genesis 1 clothing and hair convert to the G2F base almost just as flawlessly as morphing the figure itself. Any mis-shapings that does happen to occur, such as male hair, can be VERY easily corrected with the slightest dial of the item's fix morphs and still look flawless afterwards. I actually haven't gotten MallenLane's V4 for G2F yet, as surprising as it may sound (I only wanted to focus my money and attention on the DAZ Original Bundles for now), but from what Mallen and other users have shown in other threads it looks AMAZING and I hear it only gets better with every update given to it from the contribution of commentary.

As far as Victoria 6 herself goes, while I've never been much of a Vicky person, I'll admit that she certainly does look a lot less like a superficial European supermodel. Granted she's still quite idealistically built, but more so in a way that doesn't look as flabby or, in some area's, stiff as V5's default shape did. I was actually surprised that V6 doesn't have anything "Elite" about her such as her "Belle" skin or a special model morph like V5 had with G1. What also surprised me about her content was the fact that two of the hairs she came with, Fashion Hair and Charm Hair, are both designed and have the same set of textures as the "Pure Hair" series. I was actually quite savvy about getting and using the Pure Hairs during Gen 5's run, so the fact that the name has been dropped tells me I might have to pay attention to the hairs that come out with every Gen 6 Iconic Character DAZ releases from now on.

So, after everything that I've discussed in the various threads here and now actually being able to give G2F and V6 a real shot, I'll concede to that Genesis 2 Female is in fact more realistic and managed better than Genesis 1. However, I do not want anyone to think for a second that this means I instantly forgive DAZ for the sudden split between the genders, because no matter what DAZ representative on their break or what big name PA here tries to reassure me, the fact is that the discrimination between male, female and child marketing has been revived and there will be favoritism in content creation and support as there was back in the days of Gen 4. I've said this in my V6 ProSuite thread and I'll say it here. I still think that some of this realism and improvement seriously could have just been done on a unisex mesh just as much as a gender specific one and always will hold that notion until the day DAZ makes the OFFICIAL thread explaining the contrary with all the details! Like many of the other customers that have expressed their well-founded anger here, I will not abandon Genesis 1 and continue to use it along side with any use I personally see for Genesis 2. But I now must admit to myself what I have before me is a new era of Genesis that I will give DAZ and the PA's the appropriate credit for what I do like about Genesis 2, and I do anticipate to see what interesting things they will reveal unto us in the near future.

Dino Gramps

I agree with you on almost all points, both positive and negative. My one disagreement is over positive and negative parameters. I'm not about to give G2F credit for something Genesis can do with just a little effort.

So for me, DAZ and the PAs need to offer me something different. I did not buy any of the bundles because they did not offer me anything new. I'll use my Genesis clothing and hair until there is something better or unique offered for V6. I'm not going to play the game of re-buying everything offered since V2. How many bikinis do we need! As a matter of fact, I may be done buying for Genesis for the same reason, unless K5 is a reality.

Serene Night

Good review. I agree too. I'm actually more than satisfied with v6. She's a very versatile character.

So far, I haven't bought any v6 clothing, but I'm hoping more practical and realistic sci-fi content will come.

RAMWolff

RCDeschene said:

.....However, I do not want anyone to think for a second that this means I instantly forgive DAZ for the sudden split between the genders, because no matter what DAZ representative on their break or what big name PA here tries to reassure me, the fact is that the discrimination between male, female and child marketing has been revived and there will be favoritism in content creation and support as there was back in the days of Gen 4. I've said this in my V6 ProSuite thread and I'll say it here. I still think that some of this realism and improvement seriously could have just been done on a unisex mesh just as much as a gender specific one and always will hold that notion until the day DAZ makes the OFFICIAL thread explaining the contrary with all the details! Like many of the other customers that have expressed their well-founded anger here, I will not abandon Genesis 1 and continue to use it along side with any use I personally see for Genesis 2. But I now must admit to myself what I have before me is a new era of Genesis that I will give DAZ and the PA's the appropriate credit for what I do like about Genesis 2, and I do anticipate to see what interesting things they will reveal unto us in the near future.

I agree with all you have said. This paragraph is the one that made me want to comment.

After Kattey and Ben's combined tutorials got Genesis 1 morphs transferred over to Genesis 2 it's clear as a bell that this mesh CAN be a male with no issues that I've found so far. My Bruno morphs (which will be released in next few days for Genesis 02) look great and very manly indeed! Here is the thread to the transfer morphs thread.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24093/

Here is my settings post that works very well:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24093/P180/#360358

RCDeschene

sjhayes2 said:

I agree with you on almost all points, both positive and negative. My one disagreement is over positive and negative parameters. I'm not about to give G2F credit for something Genesis can do with just a little effort.

So for me, DAZ and the PAs need to offer me something different. I did not buy any of the bundles because they did not offer me anything new. I'll use my Genesis clothing and hair until there is something better or unique offered for V6. I'm not going to play the game of re-buying everything offered since V2. How many bikinis do we need! As a matter of fact, I may be done buying for Genesis for the same reason, unless K5 is a reality.
I agree, sometimes it's just a matter of how lazy one can be, but what if you're one who has to do it to multiple dials almost every time you open the application? THAT'S what eventually annoyed me personally. Glad to see they finally eliminated that tedious process out of my workflow.

RAMWolff said:

.....However, I do not want anyone to think for a second that this means I instantly forgive DAZ for the sudden split between the genders, because no matter what DAZ representative on their break or what big name PA here tries to reassure me, the fact is that the discrimination between male, female and child marketing has been revived and there will be favoritism in content creation and support as there was back in the days of Gen 4. I've said this in my V6 ProSuite thread and I'll say it here. I still think that some of this realism and improvement seriously could have just been done on a unisex mesh just as much as a gender specific one and always will hold that notion until the day DAZ makes the OFFICIAL thread explaining the contrary with all the details! Like many of the other customers that have expressed their well-founded anger here, I will not abandon Genesis 1 and continue to use it along side with any use I personally see for Genesis 2. But I now must admit to myself what I have before me is a new era of Genesis that I will give DAZ and the PA's the appropriate credit for what I do like about Genesis 2, and I do anticipate to see what interesting things they will reveal unto us in the near future.

I agree with all you have said. This paragraph is the one that made me want to comment.

After Kattey and Ben's combined tutorials got Genesis 1 morphs transferred over to Genesis 2 it's clear as a bell that this mesh CAN be a male with no issues that I've found so far. My Bruno morphs (which will be released in next few days for Genesis 02) look great and very manly indeed! Here is the thread to the transfer morphs thread.

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24093/

Here is my settings post that works very well:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24093/P180/#360358
Yeah, this part of the reason why I'm late responding to this particular thread. This REALLY reignited some of the fire of betrayal I was feeling and all of us who KNEW a unisex Genesis 2 was very much possible were shown to be right. "Versatility at all costs" my ass!

Renpatsu

RCDeschene said:

Yeah, this part of the reason why I'm late responding to this particular thread. This REALLY reignited some of the fire of betrayal I was feeling and all of us who KNEW a unisex Genesis 2 was very much possible were shown to be right. "Versatility at all costs" my ass!

I don't think I ever read that it is impossible to continue with a unisex mesh (at least not coming from a semi decent source), just that the costs increase with each morph that gets added to a unisex base (e.g. JCMs, UV maps). Additionally some mesh details can be more distinct now concerning male and female shapes due to mesh differences. Both reasons are at least plausible and could make content creation more efficient. Whether you like the trade-off or not that is for you to decide.

One point I heavily agree with you on is that DAZ should have made at last one official forum thread to explain. The whole procedure was bad form in my book.

RCDeschene

Renpatsu said:

RCDeschene said:

Yeah, this part of the reason why I'm late responding to this particular thread. This REALLY reignited some of the fire of betrayal I was feeling and all of us who KNEW a unisex Genesis 2 was very much possible were shown to be right. "Versatility at all costs" my ass!

I don't think I ever read that it is impossible to continue with a unisex mesh (at least not coming from a semi decent source), just that the costs increase with each morph that gets added to a unisex base (e.g. JCMs, UV maps). Additionally some mesh details can be more distinct now concerning male and female shapes due to mesh differences. Both reasons are at least plausible and could make content creation more efficient. Whether you like the trade-off or not that is for you to decide.

One point I heavily agree with you on is that DAZ should have made at last one official forum thread to explain. The whole procedure was bad form in my book.
It was never directly implied that unimesh was no longer doable, but neither did any PA in-the-know even remotely try to agree with us. They kept trying to convince us that this was the necessary way to go with Genesis' development for the "sake of realistic detail". Also, no one ever really confirmed that G2M's polygon count will be any different from G2F's, nor is it ever specified in the V6 promotion page. What was explained was that Genesis 2 is directly built off the original Genesis mesh. So for all we know, and the way I personally take it, Genesis 2 in general are twin meshes of the same polygon distribution, each one just morph-locked into a specifically rigged gender. Until I am able to see the G2M figure myself, that's my interpretation of the matter.

Now that I've created a modded Genesis 2 figure from the tutorials that RAMWolf posted here, the "default" G2F shape just feels like that of another base shape on an upgraded Genesis mesh and V6 like that of a PA customized character for it; like how Riley is for S5 or how Tsukiko is for A5, both of which are base characters themselves for the original Genesis.

IceEmpress

I suspect (as I have from the very beginning) that the TRUE reason they split G2's sexes is to get more clothing and hair modellers on board and pacify complaints that Genesis is really difficult to create morphs/clothing/hair for. So then down the line someone will release an official or semi-official opposite sex morph addon for them, and then the modellers already used to/skilled at creating Genesis 1 content can create clothing/etc. that supports both the base and opposite sex morphs, while those unable/unaccustomed to creating Genesis 1 content but adept at creating V4 content can create content for V6 (or I could be wrong in that it doesn't work that way at all-- I'm still a 3D noob)

In short: I'm guessing that splitting the genders is all about merchant appeal-- getting the Gen4 merchants-- the ones who never could wrap their hands around Genesis 1-- on board.

Dino Gramps

opal42987 said:

In short: I'm guessing that splitting the genders is all about merchant appeal--

I agree with you to that point. I've read posts from many PAs that claim that working with Genesis is easier, so I'm not sure about the rest.

However -- too many PAs have come out to defend G2F for me to believe merchant appeal isn't a major consideration.

agent unawares

I'm actually curious whether when the G2 Male comes out if it will be accompanied by another, better version of the Figure Mixer, or if it will indeed be built off of another mesh and incompatible.

Rayman29

The G2 weight map seems to be much improved. I'm guessing its a dedicated female WM.

G1 WM can have some odd effects. Deltoids for example, often look too big in female characters.

the3dwizard

So far I like G2 and V6 too. I for one am glad that they went away from the unisex mesh because it is easier to make certain cloths and morphs for a female figure on a female based mesh. For example I am creating a female blouse that will open in front. Lot easier to do the morphs on the G2 figure than G1.

Cheers!

vwrangler

RCDeschene said:

What also surprised me about her content was the fact that two of the hairs she came with, Fashion Hair and Charm Hair, are both designed and have the same set of textures as the "Pure Hair" series. I was actually quite savvy about getting and using the Pure Hairs during Gen 5's run, so the fact that the name has been dropped tells me I might have to pay attention to the hairs that come out with every Gen 6 Iconic Character DAZ releases from now on.

Huh. It would not have occurred to me that they had done that, or that they would have matched up that way. That's ... unexpected. Which hairs match up with Charm and Fashion? PH Charming and PH Catwalk don't quite match textures with Charm; PH Nightlife does match textures with Fashion, but the transmap changes the shape of the hair. (And vice versa, for that matter.)

RCDeschene

vwrangler said:

RCDeschene said:

What also surprised me about her content was the fact that two of the hairs she came with, Fashion Hair and Charm Hair, are both designed and have the same set of textures as the "Pure Hair" series. I was actually quite savvy about getting and using the Pure Hairs during Gen 5's run, so the fact that the name has been dropped tells me I might have to pay attention to the hairs that come out with every Gen 6 Iconic Character DAZ releases from now on.

Huh. It would not have occurred to me that they had done that, or that they would have matched up that way. That's ... unexpected. Which hairs match up with Charm and Fashion? PH Charming and PH Catwalk don't quite match textures with Charm; PH Nightlife does match textures with Fashion, but the transmap changes the shape of the hair. (And vice versa, for that matter.)
Are you sure? Because all four hairs share the same exact array of textures from what I'm seeing (except for Nightlife, seeing as how it turns out I actually don't have it yet). But you can really see the design similarities between all of them, especially with Catwalk and Charm.

RCDeschene

Jesseinger said:

I’m in fact curious whether or not if the G2 Men comes out if it will likely be accompanied by yet another, much better sort of your Figure Machine, or maybe it will in fact always be created away from one more nylon uppers along with not compatible.

I'm sorry, what? Could you rephrase that? O.o

EDIT: Ooh! Post 888! :3

Barubary

Well, well, after seeing the first 'promo' pictures of a certain other figure to be released soon, I must admit that V6 looks rather good in comparison. If she had better bending arms and if it wasn't for that weird bug with her surface names I might be all over V6.

vwrangler

RCDeschene said:

Are you sure? Because all four hairs share the same exact array of textures from what I'm seeing (except for Nightlife, seeing as how it turns out I actually don't have it yet). But you can really see the design similarities between all of them, especially with Catwalk and Charm.

Just because they have the same color array doesn't mean they have the same textures. After all, most of the more recent DAZ Original hairs offered through Platinum Club (Philly, Elements, Tears, Love Me, Swim Cap, Minnie Bow, a few others I can't think of) have the same color array, and don't seem to be particularly interchangeable.

And yes, I do have all of those, and after I read what you wrote, I tried the textures back and forth. PH Charming's and PH Catwalk's textures leave big blank strips on Charm where the textures don't have the same material zones, and vice versa. Nightlife and Fashion are sorta kinda interchangeable, but turn into different hairs when you do that. (Not necessarily a bad thing, although I think using Fashion textures on Nightlife doesn't work at all -- I'm not at that computer and can't test it right now.) I didn't test every single one of them, although I did do a few more, and most of them just didn't work at all. There's a fair amount of similarity, yes, but they really are different.

Satira Capriccio

Aren't you comparing the V6 character to a base figure, rather than base figure to base figure?

Barubary said:

Well, well, after seeing the first 'promo' pictures of a certain other figure to be released soon, I must admit that V6 looks rather good in comparison. If she had better bending arms and if it wasn't for that weird bug with her surface names I might be all over V6.

Male-M3dia

Satira Capriccio said:

Aren't you comparing the V6 character to a base figure, rather than base figure to base figure?

Barubary said:

Well, well, after seeing the first 'promo' pictures of a certain other figure to be released soon, I must admit that V6 looks rather good in comparison. If she had better bending arms and if it wasn't for that weird bug with her surface names I might be all over V6.

Well in Genesis, V6 is a base figure as characters can be based from it. Keep in mind Genesis is system for character creation, not a figure within itself.

Satira Capriccio

The Genesis 2 Female base has no ability to morph like the Genesis base did? Or does one need to purchase Victoria 6 to be able to morph the Genesis 2 Female into something other than the default shape?

OMG! Will DAZ please get this forum software fixed or replaced. How many times do I have to get sent to my account page before submit actually works. Between that, the no posts found when attempting to advance to the next page of results, and getting logged out while attempting to advance to the next page of results, it takes entirely too much time to read the forums.

Male-M3dia said:

Satira Capriccio said:

Aren't you comparing the V6 character to a base figure, rather than base figure to base figure?

Barubary said:

Well, well, after seeing the first 'promo' pictures of a certain other figure to be released soon, I must admit that V6 looks rather good in comparison. If she had better bending arms and if it wasn't for that weird bug with her surface names I might be all over V6.

Well in Genesis, V6 is a base figure as characters can be based from it. Keep in mind Genesis is system for character creation, not a figure within itself.

Male-M3dia

Satira Capriccio said:

The Genesis 2 Female base has no ability to morph like the Genesis base did? Or does one need to purchase Victoria 6 to be able to morph the Genesis 2 Female into something other than the default shape?

OMG! Will DAZ please get this forum software fixed or replaced. How many times do I have to get sent to my account page before submit actually works. Between that, the no posts found when attempting to advance to the next page of results, and getting logged out while attempting to advance to the next page of results, it takes entirely too much time to read the forums.

Male-M3dia said:

Satira Capriccio said:

Aren't you comparing the V6 character to a base figure, rather than base figure to base figure?

Barubary said:

Well, well, after seeing the first 'promo' pictures of a certain other figure to be released soon, I must admit that V6 looks rather good in comparison. If she had better bending arms and if it wasn't for that weird bug with her surface names I might be all over V6.

Well in Genesis, V6 is a base figure as characters can be based from it. Keep in mind Genesis is system for character creation, not a figure within itself.

The Genesis 2 female is able to morph into something else just like the base Genesis.

RAMWolff

Yes, Gene-02F does morph just fine in a man or beast as well as various feminine shapes, no problem!

Barubary

Satira Capriccio said:

Aren't you comparing the V6 character to a base figure, rather than base figure to base figure?

Barubary said:

Well, well, after seeing the first 'promo' pictures of a certain other figure to be released soon, I must admit that V6 looks rather good in comparison. If she had better bending arms and if it wasn't for that weird bug with her surface names I might be all over V6.

I did, you're right.

Still, from what I can tell Dawn does come with her own distinct feminine shape and I haven't seen many Dawn-based characters. If there are and if they look as different from the base shape as V6 does from Gen2F (probably the worst name for a base character ever btw.), then I may well change my opinion. Also, while Gen2F might be the base shape, V6 herself does serve as a base shape as well. (since ther are several characters 'based' on her), so the comparison doesn't seem completely uncalled for (to me anyway).

For now, I am asking the same question regarding Dawn that I did regarding Genesis (and to some lesser extent V6): what does this figure do, that V4 (OK granted: a Xameva/meipe-fixed V4) doesn't do already?