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What would be the steps (workflow) be to create a Genesis NearMe?

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  • TJohnTJohn Posts: 11,228
    edited December 1969

    larsmidnatt said:
    chohole said:
    I am not seeing any broken formatting. However I do understand that some browsers still don't display long links word wrapped, so has that helped any

    Ah that explains it Cho, at work I use Safari or on the go I use safari. But at home I use FF and it's fine now.
    Broken on Chrome. But will be new page soon.: )

  • TJohnTJohn Posts: 11,228
    edited December 1969

    See? : )

  • TJohnTJohn Posts: 11,228
    edited December 1969

    Paradigm67 said:
    When I google that all I get is the blank WIP page

    Scroll down that doku page to the bottom. I didn't read it, but there's a lot of info there.
    No idea why there's so much blank space at the top.
  • ghastlycomicghastlycomic Posts: 2,531
    edited December 1969

    larsmidnatt said:
    Paradigm67 said:

    I've found that sculptaris fits my style the best. Very fluid and the interface is picked up extremely quickly.

    I recently became a fan myself. i've used it for a few things including clothing morphs. While I would normally do morphs in hexagon, hexagon is so sickly slow when you more than a few polys on the screen I found sculptris can be used for some types of alterations.

    Yeah I love Sculptris. It is the perfect example of how to create a user interface. Playing with the program for half an hour will teach you 90% of the stuff.

    It's just a pity Dr Petters sold it to Pixologic when he no longer had time to develop it rather than making it open source. That was the only reason Pixologic bought it, they feared an open source competitor to ZBrush and basically bought it to stop any further development on it. Given some improvements Sculptris could have been a world class program. Eventually someone will come up with an open source competitor but until then Sculptris is the closest we'll get.

    I just wish the masks worked properly. Even with the mouth masked off the teeth still deform slightly if you sculpt around the mouth. So I usually use Sculptris for all my rough sculpting, avoiding the mouth area, then go into hexagon and do a fine tuning of the morph. I sculpt one side of the body (for some reason I always work on the right side) and then use MT Mirror to create symmetry.

  • ghastlycomicghastlycomic Posts: 2,531
    edited December 1969

    Arrrgh! I made such a nice chibi morph for Kururu, but for some reason Kururu will not work with MT Mirror. Back to the drawing board.

  • ghastlycomicghastlycomic Posts: 2,531
    edited July 2013

    I've created the Chibi morph for the Kururu figure, but unfortunately I have no idea how to make the morph work with a non-triax figure (the skeleton will not adjust to shape) and when I convert the figure to a triax weighted figure I can no longer fit the old clothes to it nor can I even make new clothes for it.

    Here's I just shank the skirt and hair and manually placed them where they should be since fitting them to the figure causes them to explode.

    chibi_kururu.jpg
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    Post edited by ghastlycomic on
  • TheNathanParableTheNathanParable Posts: 1,084
    edited December 1969

    Hmm. You know, a while ago I was able to produce a nice anime styled face morph for Hitomi using Zbrush in an attempt to recreate BelBel. Might have a go at a Near_Me inspired one if I have the time, again based off Hitomi. I've already got some minor experience with creating correction morphs for expressions, which I had to do for my freebie Barrett (FF7) morph. http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/21338/

    BellaReduxTest1.png
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  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 1969

    ghastlycomic said:

    I just wish the masks worked properly. Even with the mouth masked off the teeth still deform slightly if you sculpt around the mouth. So I usually use Sculptris for all my rough sculpting, avoiding the mouth area, then go into hexagon and do a fine tuning of the morph. I sculpt one side of the body (for some reason I always work on the right side) and then use MT Mirror to create symmetry.


    I didn't know the whole history to sculptris thanks. But I do use symmetry when I use sculptris and haven't tried the MT mirror thingie. I saw a thread about it a while back. I guess the MT mirror thing is good when you send over a figure that sculptris thinks isn't symmetrical and you don't want it "fix" the shape.

    See? : )

    I do!

  • TheNathanParableTheNathanParable Posts: 1,084
    edited December 1969

    Alright, did a very quick attempt in Zbrush, and this is what i've got.

    Clearly this is not the finished morph. There are plenty of issues with it (eyelashes glitching, topology in places where it shouldn't be, etc), but as an initial shape test I think it came out relatively well. If anything, I at least now know how the eyeballs must be scaled and positioned in order to suit the style.

    When I get the time, i'll try and get this morph into 3DS Max for further refinement. Once i've got it to a point where it's no longer glitching or leaving horrible lumps everywhere (you can't see most of them in this render, thankfully), then I can start the correction morphs.

    Near_MEMorphAttempt.png
    1040 x 931 - 664K
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 1969

    She's cute!

  • zigraphixzigraphix Posts: 2,787
    edited December 1969

    BishounenTaurus said:
    Alright, did a very quick attempt in Zbrush, and this is what i've got.

    Clearly this is not the finished morph. There are plenty of issues with it (eyelashes glitching, topology in places where it shouldn't be, etc), but as an initial shape test I think it came out relatively well. If anything, I at least now know how the eyeballs must be scaled and positioned in order to suit the style.

    When I get the time, i'll try and get this morph into 3DS Max for further refinement. Once i've got it to a point where it's no longer glitching or leaving horrible lumps everywhere (you can't see most of them in this render, thankfully), then I can start the correction morphs.

    The eyes look excellent! Were you able to get this effect while keeping the eyeballs mostly round?

    I think the lips still need a bit of smoothing, but it might be the texture you're using. The mouth should probably be a bit smaller. Also, with both NearMe and BelBel, the cheeks aren't so round in front, and there aren't creases at the corners of the mouth. From just below the eyes to the tip of the chin, anime faces are usually nearly flat. I don't know if I'm explaining this very well-- I'd do much better if I had a lump of clay in my hands (and you could see what I was doing with it). ;)

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited July 2013

    zigraphix said:
    I don't know if I'm explaining this very well-- I'd do much better if I had a lump of clay in my hands (and you could see what I was doing with it). ;)

    Your explanation is fine *smiles*

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • Testing6790Testing6790 Posts: 1,091
    edited December 1969

    BishounenTaurus said:
    Alright, did a very quick attempt in Zbrush, and this is what i've got.

    Clearly this is not the finished morph. There are plenty of issues with it (eyelashes glitching, topology in places where it shouldn't be, etc), but as an initial shape test I think it came out relatively well. If anything, I at least now know how the eyeballs must be scaled and positioned in order to suit the style.

    When I get the time, i'll try and get this morph into 3DS Max for further refinement. Once i've got it to a point where it's no longer glitching or leaving horrible lumps everywhere (you can't see most of them in this render, thankfully), then I can start the correction morphs.


    Geez I really need to step up my game!

  • Testing6790Testing6790 Posts: 1,091
    edited December 1969

    When I'm at work there's nothing more I want to do than work on this, but when I get home I just want to sleep =_=

  • TheNathanParableTheNathanParable Posts: 1,084
    edited July 2013

    Alright, here's a second attempt at a NearMe sculpt.

    Here's what I did.

    1) I loaded Hitomi and NearMe into Silo2, and rescaled the eyes and teeth to match NearMe's positioning.
    2) Exported to Zbrush and continued to sculpt the face around these newly positioned parts, getting it as close as possible to NearMe's shape without major distortion.
    3) Jumped through quite a few obstacles to get it working in Daz Studio without breaking anything.
    4) Reverted the eyeballs back to normal and then manually repositioned them (i've found this to work much better than having to readjust the rigging for the eyes).

    And here we are.

    Now, it's not EXACTLY like NearMe, and to be perfectly honest it never will be. The only way to get a head exactly the same as NearMe's would be to use the good ol' technique of parenting NearMe to the head and hiding the rest of her body (this is called a 'composite figure'). However I think i've been able to get as close to NearMe's style as possible without breaking everything. She'd probably look even more like her with a more appropriate texture.

    One thing to note, the eyes are HUGE. I've had to use Thorne's IrisSize morph set to -3 to get them to a decent size. You can't see it in this render but the iris mesh actually has some creasing going on. To get this to work properly, there needs to be a new iris size morph that is capable of making Hitomi's iris extremely small without distortion (and, even better, make the iris thinner to match NearMe's iris shape).

    Also, I dread to think how this morph looks when using expression morphs. Oh, and to answer Zigraphix earlier, yes the eyeballs are still completely round, so there should be no pokethrough when they rotate.

    EDIT: I've added in another render from a different angle with a facial expression. Surprisingly her mouth morphs seem to work perfectly fine (although I do need to readjust the rigging to the teeth/tongue). Her brow morphs work as well as you would expect (for anime characters it's always better to use the morphs from the actual eyebrow prop). Her eye morphs definitely need fixing. There is also some lumpy bumpiness going on around the cheek/jaw area, so that needs to be smoothed out. Also, the tearduct and lower eyelashes need slight repositioning.

    Actually, now that I look at it, she's starting to look more like an Astroboy character. :P

    NearMeMorph_Attempt2angle.png
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    NearMeMorph_Attempt2.png
    1040 x 931 - 506K
    Post edited by TheNathanParable on
  • TJohnTJohn Posts: 11,228
    edited December 1969

    BishounenTaurus said:
    Alright, here's a second attempt at a NearMe sculpt.

    Here's what I did.

    1) I loaded Hitomi and NearMe into Silo2, and rescaled the eyes and teeth to match NearMe's positioning.
    2) Exported to Zbrush and continued to sculpt the face around these newly positioned parts, getting it as close as possible to NearMe's shape without major distortion.
    3) Jumped through quite a few obstacles to get it working in Daz Studio without breaking anything.
    4) Reverted the eyeballs back to normal and then manually repositioned them (i've found this to work much better than having to readjust the rigging for the eyes).

    And here we are.

    Now, it's not EXACTLY like NearMe, and to be perfectly honest it never will be. The only way to get a head exactly the same as NearMe's would be to use the good ol' technique of parenting NearMe to the head and hiding the rest of her body (this is called a 'composite figure'). However I think i've been able to get as close to NearMe's style as possible without breaking everything. She'd probably look even more like her with a more appropriate texture.

    One thing to note, the eyes are HUGE. I've had to use Thorne's IrisSize morph set to -3 to get them to a decent size. You can't see it in this render but the iris mesh actually has some creasing going on. To get this to work properly, there needs to be a new iris size morph that is capable of making Hitomi's iris extremely small without distortion (and, even better, make the iris thinner to match NearMe's iris shape).

    Also, I dread to think how this morph looks when using expression morphs. Oh, and to answer Zigraphix earlier, yes the eyeballs are still completely round, so there should be no pokethrough when they rotate.

    EDIT: I've added in another render from a different angle with a facial expression. Surprisingly her mouth morphs seem to work perfectly fine (although I do need to readjust the rigging to the teeth/tongue). Her brow morphs work as well as you would expect (for anime characters it's always better to use the morphs from the actual eyebrow prop). Her eye morphs definitely need fixing. There is also some lumpy bumpiness going on around the cheek/jaw area, so that needs to be smoothed out. Also, the tearduct and lower eyelashes need slight repositioning.

    Actually, now that I look at it, she's starting to look more like an Astroboy character. :P


    I was going to say that your sculpt looks so much like the designs for the 3D animated version of Astro Boy! So smooth and a great job, would work fine as a standalone character. :cheese:
  • zigraphixzigraphix Posts: 2,787
    edited December 1969

    She's so cute! ^_^

  • JoeQuickJoeQuick Posts: 1,721
    edited December 1969

    BishounenTaurus said:
    Alright, here's a second attempt at a NearMe sculpt.

    Here's what I did.

    1) I loaded Hitomi and NearMe into Silo2, and rescaled the eyes and teeth to match NearMe's positioning.
    2) Exported to Zbrush and continued to sculpt the face around these newly positioned parts, getting it as close as possible to NearMe's shape without major distortion.
    3) Jumped through quite a few obstacles to get it working in Daz Studio without breaking anything.
    4) Reverted the eyeballs back to normal and then manually repositioned them (i've found this to work much better than having to readjust the rigging for the eyes).

    And here we are.

    Now, it's not EXACTLY like NearMe, and to be perfectly honest it never will be. The only way to get a head exactly the same as NearMe's would be to use the good ol' technique of parenting NearMe to the head and hiding the rest of her body (this is called a 'composite figure'). However I think i've been able to get as close to NearMe's style as possible without breaking everything. She'd probably look even more like her with a more appropriate texture.

    One thing to note, the eyes are HUGE. I've had to use Thorne's IrisSize morph set to -3 to get them to a decent size. You can't see it in this render but the iris mesh actually has some creasing going on. To get this to work properly, there needs to be a new iris size morph that is capable of making Hitomi's iris extremely small without distortion (and, even better, make the iris thinner to match NearMe's iris shape).

    Also, I dread to think how this morph looks when using expression morphs. Oh, and to answer Zigraphix earlier, yes the eyeballs are still completely round, so there should be no pokethrough when they rotate.

    EDIT: I've added in another render from a different angle with a facial expression. Surprisingly her mouth morphs seem to work perfectly fine (although I do need to readjust the rigging to the teeth/tongue). Her brow morphs work as well as you would expect (for anime characters it's always better to use the morphs from the actual eyebrow prop). Her eye morphs definitely need fixing. There is also some lumpy bumpiness going on around the cheek/jaw area, so that needs to be smoothed out. Also, the tearduct and lower eyelashes need slight repositioning.

    Actually, now that I look at it, she's starting to look more like an Astroboy character. :P

    You should consider a morph pack that reproduces various anime/manga styles, character type heads based off of your favorite artists.

  • zigraphixzigraphix Posts: 2,787
    edited December 1969

    Joequick said:
    ]

    You should consider a morph pack that reproduces various anime/manga styles, character type heads based off of your favorite artists.

    I'd buy it!

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited July 2013

    BishounenTaurus said:
    Alright, here's a second attempt at a NearMe sculpt.

    Here's what I did.

    thanks for sharing your steps.

    Just read some of the other folks comments about buying a morph pack, and even though I don't buy shapes anymore I would buy some unique toons. Particularly heads. I've got plenty of realistic character shapes, but not really enough variety in the toons. Particularly the Japanese inspired ones.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • TheNathanParableTheNathanParable Posts: 1,084
    edited December 1969

    Did some minor fixing, not so much with the face mesh but with the eyeballs.

    I've created two new morphs; an IrisSize morph and a IrisOval morph, to be used specifically with Hitomi. Funnily enough though, I ended up not using the IrisSize morph (both because it was unnecessary, and because it caused some glitching). The IrisOval morph makes the Iris oval shaped while still keeping the eyeball round, giving us eyes that much more closely resemble NearMe without sacrificing the eye controls. Works surprisingly well.

    For better comparison, i've put NearMe's hair on her.

    NearMe_CorrectedIris.png
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  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 1969

    I can see what you did with the eye shape. nice!

  • ghastlycomicghastlycomic Posts: 2,531
    edited December 1969

    I can never get my sculpting perfectly smooth, or at least smooth enough for my tastes. Is there a technique to it or does Z-brush have a special feature specifically for averaging areas of a mesh other than a simple smooth brush.

  • zigraphixzigraphix Posts: 2,787
    edited December 1969

    BishounenTaurus said:
    Did some minor fixing, not so much with the face mesh but with the eyeballs.

    I've created two new morphs; an IrisSize morph and a IrisOval morph, to be used specifically with Hitomi. Funnily enough though, I ended up not using the IrisSize morph (both because it was unnecessary, and because it caused some glitching). The IrisOval morph makes the Iris oval shaped while still keeping the eyeball round, giving us eyes that much more closely resemble NearMe without sacrificing the eye controls. Works surprisingly well.

    For better comparison, i've put NearMe's hair on her.

    Outstanding. ^_^

    Do you know how to make clones in Genesis so content can be converted? It's fairly simple. (Do you think there would be legal issues?)

    I am convinced Genesis could become the premiere platform for anime/manga characters with artists like you working on the problem!

  • Testing6790Testing6790 Posts: 1,091
    edited December 1969

    Wow, much better than mine! I feel like there is something weird about the jaw though. I can't place it, maybe I'm just jealous :p

  • TheNathanParableTheNathanParable Posts: 1,084
    edited December 1969

    ghastlycomic said:
    I can never get my sculpting perfectly smooth, or at least smooth enough for my tastes. Is there a technique to it or does Z-brush have a special feature specifically for averaging areas of a mesh other than a simple smooth brush.

    There are different smoothing brushes you can switch between from the "Lightbox" (a collection of pre-made brushes, textures, and objects, all included with Zbrush), but to be perfectly honest I have yet to see the difference between them.

    You just gotta be very careful. Heck, it's still not as smooth as i'd like it to be, hence i'll probably end up taking the shape into Silo 2 for some tweaking. I highly recommend Silo 2 namely because, unlike 3DS Max, it's actually capable of true symmetrical editing.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 1969

    BishounenTaurus said:

    I highly recommend Silo 2 namely because, unlike 3DS Max, it's actually capable of true symmetrical editing.

    That's one of the things that ticked me off about 3DS when I tried it last year. Still love the software overall, but was surprised that no matter how much looking around I did I couldn't find a tutorial or discussion about "true" symmetrical editing :( The symmetry tool thing is kinda weak and doesn't work well, but I guess most people are building things up from scratch and still just using the symmetry modifier.

  • zigraphixzigraphix Posts: 2,787
    edited December 1969

    Interesting, I have trouble with the symmetry functions in Blacksmith 3D, too. Is Silo that much better at it?

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 4,511
    edited December 1969

    zigraphix said:
    Interesting, I have trouble with the symmetry functions in Blacksmith 3D, too. Is Silo that much better at it?

    Since I've been trying to stick with Hexagon I can't say much myself. I do like Silo, but I use it as a backup to Hexagon at this point. When things are too intense for Hexagon I switch to Silo instead.

    And since I haven't used Blacksmith 3D lately I can't compare it. I've been meaning to try the free demo again though.

  • JoeQuickJoeQuick Posts: 1,721
    edited December 1969

    BishounenTaurus said:
    ghastlycomic said:
    I can never get my sculpting perfectly smooth, or at least smooth enough for my tastes. Is there a technique to it or does Z-brush have a special feature specifically for averaging areas of a mesh other than a simple smooth brush.

    There are different smoothing brushes you can switch between from the "Lightbox" (a collection of pre-made brushes, textures, and objects, all included with Zbrush), but to be perfectly honest I have yet to see the difference between them.

    You just gotta be very careful. Heck, it's still not as smooth as i'd like it to be, hence i'll probably end up taking the shape into Silo 2 for some tweaking. I highly recommend Silo 2 namely because, unlike 3DS Max, it's actually capable of true symmetrical editing.

    In zbrush you can also mask a problem area, blur the mask, and inverse the mask and then try some of the polish/relax sliders in the deformations tab.

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