Render applications - need suggestions.
Jimbotini
Posts: 44
I'm putting this question here because it covers DAZ Studio, Carrara, Poser, and others. I'm really looking for a suggestion and/or stories (horror or otherwise) of working with other applications. It certainly seems like DAZ Studio's approach to the missing features (compared to other renderers) is to let folks create add-ons and plugins and the accumulation and the hassle (especially when versions get bumped) might make some other paid application cheaper/better. (Reality, Luxus, Look at my Hair, Garibaldi, OptiTex Dynamic Cloth just to name a few)
Although I've been happy with Studio to get my feet wet, and it is still a good application... I'm interested in something more production quality like Carrara or Lightwave. I can get a trial of Lightwave to see how it works, but don't know for sure how to transfer DAZ content to it (if even possible) with the FBX export plugin for DAZ. I can't even get a trial of Carrara to see if I like it better than DAZ and I've heard of as many DAZ content import issues with it as I have with Lightwave.
One thing I can't find for sure is how and how much content actually works with the DSON plugin for Carrara or FBX exporting for Lightwave. I understand that shaders for DAZ studio won't work. If it imports, what does it import, how usable is it, what doesn't work...
My other concern is modeling. I have started creating models using Hexagon and have to admit that I sure feel inhibited by it's abilities, particularly with UV mapping, merging/slicing up polygons...
After watching Dreamlight's model master and lighting master videos to say nothing about reading (still reading) Digitial Lighting and Rendering, I'm seeing some benefits of some other applications, I just don't know which application(s) I should be looking at specifically. I've used trials for Marvelous Designer 2/3 (and currently have the beta for 3) and liking the ability to drape cloth on a figure. I think Poser, Carrara, and Lightwave all have that cloth draping/designing abilities but have no comparison on how well they work. Same question on hair tools (I have both Look at my Hair and Garibaldi for Studio).
I use a Mac, so everything has to work on it. Microsoft is evil.
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Comments
Carrara uses content as well as studio. It can use pretty well all poser content as well as the new Studio content; DUF in C8.5.
Just set up a runtime, or it can use all the content in the Studio runtime. When you install content just select poser format.
Yes the shaders will need tweaking, but that is not at all difficult.
Where as with light wave you may be able to get some small part of it to work. But none of it will work right out the box like it would in carrara.
You'll also get the added benefit of being able to use CMS and DIM; that DAZ is desperately trying to shove down every ones throat right now. >:-(
Both of which are optional as Stan very well knows.
I'm a MODO partisan, so that's my recommendation. I actually got into MODO (or, as it used to be known, "modo") from a special offer by DAZ back in the day. I think it was modo 102. I found I could buy the DAZ special price + an upgrade and still come out ahead of paying retail at the Luxology website, and I've been a loyalist ever since.
All of which is beside the point of your question. (I'm old; I ramble. Give me 5 minutes and I'll start telling you about my gall bladder and lumbago :D)
I'm very comfortable with the DAZ to modo workflow, but you need to know that it's not a live 2-way street. Everything needs to be posed and prepped in DAZ first to get into the modo scene, and the character rigging is discarded in the transfer. Studio includes a modo-scale import/export default for OBJ files. The app's texturing, lighting and rendering abilities are superb, and it's a world-class subdivision modeler with an extraordinarily powerful texture-baking system built in, should you decide to start creating Poser & Studio content.
I naturally think it's worth taking a look at, but I don't know what your price range is. There are some tutorials on youtube that will show you how full-featured the package is, and if you're a patient sort, it tends to go on sale about twice a year. (It just came off a sale, so you're looking at a wait of a few months minimum to get a discount.) I think there's a 30-day evaluation package available.
EDIT: MODO also has rigid- and soft-body dynamics, an extensive suite of UV management tools and a built-in fur/hair system. I'm not sure I'd recommend it for trying to do fiber-hair objects for transfer back into STUDIO, though. The geometry it produces is really heavy.
wow, I have to admit modo's website does make it look impressive. I'll have to keep an eye on that. It is the same price as lightwave, so not that it is in the price range but it isn't out of the ball park. The one thing I can say right off about Poser and Carrara is that they are considerably cheaper than the alternatives (DAZ Studio excluded). The promo videos are cool. After dealing with Hexagon, I might need a moment alone with those... giggity... :)
Is Modo based on LuxRender?
Regardless, I was hoping for a slightly smoother transition from DAZ content to some other app so I can tweak poses and placement of stuff. Exporting everything as an OBJ or set of OBJ files I can see being a thorn with cascading effects if I decide to change something small once exported... That is unless there was some better way of exporting from DAZ Studio these days.
Ultimately I need something with a good modeler and good renderer with hair and cloth draping tools. I would love a discussion on the export tools required to use other renderers and how well they work or the possibility of a trail period for Carrara before unloading the couple hundred bucks.
Carrara 8.1.1.2 Trial
http://download.cnet.com/Carrara-8-Pro/3000-6677_4-10782148.html?tag=mncol;2
This is the stable version, not the beta, so no Genesis.
Hope this helps.
It's not an unbiased (physically accurate) renderer. So the bad news is, if you're approaching scenes with the traditional photographer's mindset, you'd probably need to tweak things a bit to get where you want to go. The good news is, you can play all kinds of evil little tricks that physical light can't do, such as light-linking (casting a light only on certain objects in the scene), dorking around with radiance attenuation (for example, by dropping the "square" part for linear inverse falloff), having lights that are visible only in reflection, etc., and my personal favorite, casting negative light :D, which broadcasts darkness as a radiant influence and which can be seriously atmospheric and trippy.
Also, caustics and volumetrics built in if you want 'em. The volumetrics can be blended with arbitrary texture stacks to give you dusty light, smoky back-room light, etc.
If you have spare machines lying around the place, modo comes with built-in render farming, and you can set up slave processes on Linux, WIndows, and Mac under your single license. Caution, though: For the past couple of major releases, getting render-farming to actually work has been a little problematic. There's some ongoing discussion on the Luxology forums about why it's suddenly such a rain dance to get the feature working.
I absolutely hear what you're saying about the potential agony of fixing a messed-up character late in the workflow. When I move multiple-character scenes into MODO, one of the first things I do is split all the characters and set components up into separate files, and then load them back in to the master scene by reference. I do all the lighting (and occasionally scaling and repositioning) in the master scene, and everything else happens in the subscenes. That way if I find a messed-up pose, etc. I only need to come back to Studio for that one character, carry it through the fix-up process, and then save it over the original character subscene. The master scene gains the fixes the next time it loads.
I'd be curious to see the discussion you're hoping for too! I've had my eye on Carrera more than once, trying to decide if it was worth the while. Same with the Vue product line.
-- dan
Whatever render engine you end up deciding to use, you will always have to adjust shaders. Shaders are computed differently for each render engine, even the renderman compliant ones. There is a way of exporting from DAZ to Blender now, so that's always a possibility. Carrara is good and 8.5 looks like it will work much better with DAZ Genesis content and what you have setup in DAZ Studio, but you will need to adjust shaders, lights, etc. My advice if you are going to stick with DAZ content, it probably would be best to stick with the DAZ programs it's designed to work in just to cut down on frustration. There's lots of potential in Studio and Carrara and no manual or documentation can or will ever show you what it can really do.If you really know and study your CG books, you'll be able to figure out most of this stuff on your own as most programs are very similar in how they work as they are all based on the same papers that have been around for many years. You'd be better off using the money you'd spend on new programs to instead buy the best plugins and invest in a faster computer or two. That's where my money is going to go now. Some of the plugins for Studio make it much easier to access the hidden parts of 3Delight that you have to code for in other programs to use the expensive 3Delight renderer. Go for the most cores you can afford as DAZ Studio has the unlimited cores on one PC version of 3Delight which costs a ton otherwise (it is a high end movie studio render engine that most users here don't seem to get - it's for movie studios, folks!). And there is a plugin for Octane Render now if you're itching to get the new upcoming Nvidia Quadro 12GB card to render with (over $2,000 speculated price) or just wish to use a more affordable GTX 580 (but you will still have to adjust shaders and lights in Octane and there's no real motion blur yet).