DAZ subsurface shader
I have some questions about this
http://www.daz3d.com/subsurface-shader-base
1) does anyone have any settings that work well for skin, eyes etc? I have no idea what I a fiddling about with. I know Szark has kindly provided some elsewhere for the UberSurface shader, but it would be great to have a set of good setting for this one too.
2) once set up for skin, can I save these settings somehow so i can just apply the shader and a preset to a figure rather than having to dial them all up one by one every time?
3) when I load the shader to a figure surface, it doesn't seem to replace the maps (as shaders usually do unless you hold down Ctrl). is this true?
Thanks
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2) save a materials preset.
3) yes, this is by design - the shader is set up to preserve maps.
If you have some of the purchased presets such as the plastic and toon shader sets, then they do actually replace the texture maps unless you hold CTRL. The base shader converts your original material settings to the AoA subsurface shader.
thanks. does that work only for that figure? what's actually being saved? is it the shader plus settings (ie when I apply the preset to the figure it does everything?)
A materials setting saves (by default) all the settings for all of the named surfaces on the selected item, so it will work on that figure and on any other figure with the same surface names. A Shader preset saves all the settings for one selected surface, which can then be applied to any selected surface. They are appropriate in different situations.
Ok
..I think
Some of the new characters, like V6, use this shader. You can see how they are setup.
I have experimented with this quite a bit on skin. You can have a preset that is your starting point for any skin, but you will need to do rendering and adjusting of settings to get good results. Different characters come with different skin texture maps. A setup that works with one texture map, will need adjustment to work with another skin texture map.
A big difference I have found is specular maps. A specular map is a black and white image that controls the strength of specular highlights. Some PAs create really dark specular maps, but then set the specular strength high. Other PAs create lighter specular maps and set the strength low. Many PAs put the specular map in the specular color channel rather than specular strength channel. I've even seen the specular map put in the glossiness channel. I'm not sure what the thinking is behind all these different ways of doing specular. Some characters also come with no specular maps at all, in which case you have to set the specular up differently.
Each set of skin textures is different, and it will take some tweaking to get really good results.
Some of the new characters, like V6, use this shader. You can see how they are setup.
I have experimented with this quite a bit on skin. You can have a preset that is your starting point for any skin, but you will need to do rendering and adjusting of settings to get good results. Different characters come with different skin texture maps. A setup that works with one texture map, will need adjustment to work with another skin texture map.
A big difference I have found is specular maps. A specular map is a black and white image that controls the strength of specular highlights. Some PAs create really dark specular maps, but then set the specular strength high. Other PAs create lighter specular maps and set the strength low. Many PAs put the specular map in the specular color channel rather than specular strength channel. I've even seen the specular map put in the glossiness channel. I'm not sure what the thinking is behind all these different ways of doing specular. Some characters also come with no specular maps at all, in which case you have to set the specular up differently.
Each set of skin textures is different, and it will take some tweaking to get really good results.
I see. But I'd rather not just tweak at random (as there are like 30 or more dials so there must be hundreds of millions of possible combinations). Can you at least maybe explain "in general" what they do, so I could experiment a little more intelligently, rather than just randomly dialling and hoping to accidentally hit a good look...
I'm glad this topic was raised, I'm very interested in using this subsurface shader base to create a shiny, oily look on a characters skin, but have no idea how to use the shader without ruining the original look/colour of the texture
I have a rough idea how to get the shiny effect (specular, glossiness, freshnel), but no idea how to not ruin the original texture
I'll throw my hat in the ring, along with Sertorial and derek. Very interested in utilizing SSS but don't really know the "how" yet
There is documentation for the Subsurface Shader here: http://wiki.daz3d.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/public/read_me/index/16324/16324_subsurface-shader-base.pdf This explains what the different settings do.
The Subsurface Toolbox (http://www.daz3d.com/subsurface-toolbox) contains some partial presets for skin materials. There are presets that only change the subsurface settings, only the specular or only the velvet settings.
This is from memory some info for setting up skin (eyes and fingernails are different):
Ambient - skin does not glow in the dark. Ambient strength should be zero or color 0,0,0 or both. That said, a lot of PAs use Ambient on skins. Sometimes this is done to simulate SSS in shaders that don't support SSS. I don't think skin should have any ambient and always turn it off.
Diffuse - The skin texture maps should be in the diffuse color. For a non-SSS shader the color will normally be white and strength 100%. Sometimes PAs change the color a bit because they want to shift the skin color a little. If you are using SSS, usually you want to reduce the diffusion strength to 80-90% You can also do that by changing the color. The color 204,204,204 is similar to reducing the strength to 80%. Frequently people reduce the red color a lot more than blue or green to compensate for the red being injected in the SSS channel. I would make the color white and strength 80% when you turn on SSS then fiddle with the color if you think the skin looks too red.
Bump, displacement and normal maps - these are all different ways of making skin look rough, have bumps, holes, ect. Skin will almost always have a bump map. Rarely you will have a displacement map. Almost never see normal maps on skins. Setup is similar to other shaders. Only got-yeah to look out for with the SubSurface Shader is the displacement maps. Most skins don't have any. Most other shaders will ignore the min and max displacement if there is no map, but the SubSurface shader does not. Be sure to set min and max displacement to 0.0 if you don't have a displacement map. (Subsurface shader should really come with a preset to do this.).
SSS - this is complicated. There are lots of threads on this if you search. Start with one of the skin presets, either the ones built into the shader or from the Subsurface Toolbox. Strength can be anything from 25%-75%.
Velvet - this is suppose to simulate the effect of many tiny hairs on the skin. I have never seen it do much. SubSurface tool box has some presets for it. I would turn it off and get everything else set up, then try some of those presets and see if you think they do anything.
Specular - As I said this is the area that needs a lot of fiddling to get good results. Settings depend on what the specular maps look like. I try to always put the specular maps in the specular strength setting rather than the color. Specular light should be while too, but many PAs use a light blue. The subsurface tool box has some presets. I have usually used them and then started adjusting strength up and down. Things to watch out for: some skins come with specular like highlights built into the diffusion texture. In this case you probably need to make the specular strength very low. I sometimes render with only a specular spot light, so I can see what the specular is really doing. Image looks really weird, but you can see where you are really getting highlights.
Generally I start trying to adjust all the skin surfaces, and leave the mouth, teeth, eye and fingernail surfaces alone. You want most of the skin surfaces to be set up exactly the same (aside from the textures used) so the seams do not show. Lips and nostrils can and usually are set up a little differently. Lips can be more glossy to simulate lipstick or just wet lips. Nostrils are usually darker. Get all the skin surfaces set the same, then you can fiddle with lips and nostrils.
The other important thing is render in good lighting. Don't evaluate your settings using the DAZ headlight.
mark128, thanks for the into and tips on getting started with subsurface shaders!
Do you have any tips when it comes to lights or lighting and the subsurface shaders?
I was thinking of getting "DAZ Studio Illuminated" by Dreamlight ( http://www.dream-lounge.com/dreamlightclub/dsi/ ) but I am not sure if it is compatible or works with the new DAZ subsurface shaders?
Marcus
awesome mark128 - thanks very much!
many tanks!
I have an older Dreamlight tutorial that was very useful. It was not DAZ Studio specific, although he did sometimes use an old version of DAZ Studio, probably 3.1. This course looks like it is DAZ Studio specific and updated to cover a lot of the enhancements. You should learn a lot from this course.
The new subsurface shader should not have much, if any, effect on how you do lighting. DAZ has had subsurface shaders for some time. Human Surface and UberSurface are both subsurface shaders. The new Subsurface shader base has a more complicated model of subsurface scattering then than those two earlier shaders, but it should not change how you do lighting.
Is this subsurface shader 4.6 only or can be used with 4.5, thanx.,
There should be a subsurface-shader-base.pdf in yours DAZ Studio content ("content" not as folder named content but as generally additional content, like clothes, figures etc.) readme folder. Like for example, .../ My Library / ReadMe's. There is a section in pdf file called Subsurface Scattering - Colour Settings with a picture. Those settings are in yours surfaces tabs when you have subsurface base shader applied, called SSS Material Type.
Hi Ben, nothing in read me files about subsurface.
Thanx Jade, alway's glitches/bugs upgrading to newer anything. Will upgrade to 4.6 later this evening :-)
Hmm... I think, I'll never swear on this but I'm pretty sure about this... IF your PC can and does run DS4.5 it can and will run DS4.6 just fine. Only a few users have problems moving from DS4.0 to the higher numbers. DS4.5 and DS4.6 only have SMALL fixes that you really never see.Try downloading subsurface shader base from your account product library (manual). Zip contains ReadMe's folder with pdf inside.
Will do friend, thanx :-)
Try downloading subsurface shader base from your account product library (manual). Zip contains ReadMe's folder with pdf inside.