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I got it because of a tree Complaint Thread

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  • Sfariah DSfariah D Posts: 26,519
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    Kulay Wolf said:
    Oh I was supposed to get the laundry machine ready for another load of laundry. What else was I supposed to do?
    That other thing you can't think of?

    Oh apply for jobs I think

  • ps1borgps1borg Posts: 12,776
    edited December 1969

    Morning. Cold, rainy, grey and gloomy day, sunrise hasn't made much difference :)

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 14,258
    edited December 1969

    Warm, and rainy here. I know I'm tired of it and it needs to stop

  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 13,260
    edited December 1969

    It was another sunny one here today, but the sky is betraying a coming storm. Meh...I'll mow the weeds on Sunday and bring the clippings to the landfill on Monday.

    Dana

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,205
    edited August 2013

    ...apologies for the thread spammage. Was up sort of late last night watching this programme on air crash investigation.

    The incident was a fairly famous one back in the 50s where two airliners A United DC-7 and TWA Constellation, collided over the Grand Canyon. Back then they didn't have the benefits of sophisticated computers, 3d simulation, telemetry data, flight data/cockpit voice recorders (the so called "black boxes" which incidentally are painted bright orange so they can be found), and locator beacons like we have today. This was the days of film cameras, slide rules, pencils, and paper notepads.

    Once a plane left an airport's departure control, the pilots didn't directly talk with any other controllers but instead with the airline's dispatch office which relayed the messages to the en-route control centres. To monitor a plane's position, a network of "checkpoints" along the major airways was established, Upon reaching one of these markers, the crew would report in to the company's dispatch centre with the time they reached it along the estimated time for the next one. This information was then relayed from the dispatch office to the regional flight control centres via telephone. Any requests to alter course or altitude were also were handled in this manner. Crews were also allowed to alter flight plans to a degree as they saw fit for situations like weather (most of the old propliners didn't fly much above 22,000 to 24,000' so they usually had to divert around rather than above thunderstorms/fronts) and in doing so, operated on what was called a "see and be seen" basis.

    If a plane was overdue in reporting in at it's next checkpoint contact would be initiated by the dispatch office, not the en-route control centre. This could sometimes go on for several hours as loss of contact could result from any number of causes from radio malfunction, to weather, to pilots simply not reporting in (common in those days). As time went on there was speculation something grave had occurred, however solid evidence that the two airliners had actually crashed wasn't reported until the next morning when the pilot of a sightseeing plane spotted the wreckage.

    The investigation itself was one of the toughest in history as both aircraft went down in the rugged terrain of the canyon. At the time it was first thought maybe weather was the cause, but upon surveying the scene where the TWA plane had crashed, the lead investigator discovered blue paint scratches on the tail wreckage from the of the Constellation that only could have come from the United DC-7. The tail section was also over 1,000 yards away from the main wreckage which meant it had separated while the TWA plane was still in the air.

    Nearby a section of the wing from the United plane was discovered which had red paint scratches from the TWA aircraft. The remainder of the United plane's wreckage was extremely difficult to reach as it crashed into a sheer cliff above.

    With only this evidence, tapes of the radio messages received/relayed by the dispatch offices,physical models of the planes, a mockup of the DC-7's windscreen to determine frame of reference, and tabletop airway maps with markers to determine the two plane's positions based on tape recordings of the radio reports, he and his team had to reconstruct the events that led up to what was the worst air disaster in history to determine where the fault was.

    Using the models of the planes marked with locations of the paint scratches discovered on the pieces of wreckage, it was determined that the right wing of the DC-7 struck and severed the tail section from the Constellation as well as the portion of the right wing of the United aircraft up to the #1 engine. This meant that the United crew had taken evasive action which was unfortunately too late to avoid the inevitable. The final factor that came into play the weather as skies were for the most part cloudy with thunderstorm cells in the area (as reported by both crews). Given of the poor visibility conditions in the area it was determined the United crew had maybe only seconds to react once they saw the TWA plane appear ahead of them. Airliners (particularly the old prop driven ones of the day) are kind of like ships as due to their size and mass, they are sluggish to react to control input compared to say a WWII fighter plane designed for crisp manouverability. Were the skies clear, he determined that the crew of the United flight would have seen the Constellation while it was far enough away to give them ample time to safely alter course without requiring extreme evasive action.

    In the final report the crews of the planes (usually always the first to be blamed), the dispatchers and controllers were exonerated as the local weather conditions also played a major role. However, the chief investigator also included in his report that the air traffic control system itself was at fault for it was far too prone to failure since it offered no precise means for monitoring of aircraft positions and altitudes or direct contact with flight crews.

    This single incident was a major turning point in air travel safety for it led to the FAA establishing the nation wide array of radar control centres that have direct contact with aircraft in their vicinity and keep track of all air traffic even over the most remote parts of the continent.

    It was kind of a "Quincy of the skies" as back then there were no high tech gadgets then to scrutinize every little piece of evidence. It all had to be done with primitive (to today's standards) tools, previous experience/knowledge, as well as a bit of good old fashioned deduction.

    Because of this one man's work, the skies today are far more safer than ever, even given the high volume of air traffic and greater speeds planes travel at today. The next step which is underway is bringing GPS into the flight deck so flight crews will have a realtime reference to other aircraft in the air around them which could pose a threat as well as give ground controllers an even more precise picture of traffic in the skies above.


    I used to study this kind of stuff when I was hoping to become an aeronautical engineer way back in my secondary school days.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 14,258
    edited December 1969

    I trimmed up my tomato and pepper plants today. My father-in-law pretty much killed them off from not watering enough while we were out of town. Lucky they recovered mostly now that they are on a normal watering schedule now.

  • Sfariah DSfariah D Posts: 26,519
    edited December 1969

    I am hoping my medicine change can help me concentrate better in the afternoon and after dinner.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited August 2013

    @ KK, wonderful PC render. I'll not bother to compete now. Even though they did fill in some of the info we needed, your render is too good to try to beat.

    That's more Plane info than I needed in one drop, half of it left my head before I finished it. JK ;-)

    Post edited by Jaderail on
  • ps1borgps1borg Posts: 12,776
    edited December 1969

    i asked them to put call logging on my phone at dayjob, but it's not as nifty as i thought. after fussing for it can i take backsies?


    supertramp: iz raining again. [/quote

    Iz cold here today brrr :)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,205
    edited August 2013

    Jaderail said:
    @ KK, wonderful PC render. I'll not bother to compete now. Even though they did fill in some of the info we needed, your render is too good to try to beat.

    That's more Plane info than I needed in one drop, half of it left my head before I finished it. JK ;-)

    ...thanks, though looks like Totte just upped the ante. :long:


    Yeah, I really was into it back then. Tailored all my coursework to prepare me for entering the degree programme (via a Boeing internship). Then the bottom fell out a year before I graduated. Aeronautical Engineers were a dime a dozen and Seattle almost became a ghost town.

    The hard part about it I still really love the subject (aeronautics and aircraft design, not crashes). Sometimes though I envy the lay person when I travel as I feel I know far more than I really need to for my own peace of mind about these things.

    The whole idea of studying such cases was looking at what went wrong so it doesn't happen again. Personally I don't think I could actually handle working for the NTSB as a field investigator.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • ps1borgps1borg Posts: 12,776
    edited December 1969

    Woolyloach said:
    Thursday. Hot. Muggy. Horrible traffic. Indigestion all night. Not interested in food this morning. Wanted to stay home but need the money for my vacation. Didn't sleep worth a darn. Rumbling guts.

    Meh. :blank:

    But tomorrow is Friday! :cheese:

    Our sun must be having the day off today :lol:

  • ps1borgps1borg Posts: 12,776
    edited December 1969

    Kulay Wolf said:
    I am trying to think of something I can sell for $1.99. Maybe some of my photographs for backgrounds? but how many for $1.99?

    Photo of the same backdrop for day and night would be interesting and different :)

  • ps1borgps1borg Posts: 12,776
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    Jaderail said:
    @ KK, wonderful PC render. I'll not bother to compete now. Even though they did fill in some of the info we needed, your render is too good to try to beat.

    That's more Plane info than I needed in one drop, half of it left my head before I finished it. JK ;-)

    ...thanks, though looks like Totte just upped the ante. :long:


    Yeah, I really was into it back then. Tailored all my coursework to prepare me for entering the degree programme (via a Boeing internship). Then the bottom fell out a year before I graduated. Aeronautical Engineers were a dime a dozen and Seattle almost became a ghost town.

    The hard part about it I still really love the subject (aeronautics and aircraft design, not crashes). Sometimes though I envy the lay person when I travel as I feel I know far more than I really need to for my own peace of mind about these things.

    The whole idea of studying such cases was looking at what went wrong so it doesn't happen again. Personally I don't think I could actually handle working for the NTSB as a field investigator.

    Is interesting, they are lovely large machines ;)

  • SiscaSisca Posts: 875
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...apologies for the thread spammage. Was up sort of late last night watching this programme on air crash investigation.

    The incident was a fairly famous one back in the 50s where two airliners A United DC-7 and TWA Constellation, collided over the Grand Canyon. Back then they didn't have the benefits of sophisticated computers, 3d simulation, telemetry data, flight data/cockpit voice recorders (the so called "black boxes" which incidentally are painted bright orange so they can be found), and locator beacons like we have today. This was the days of film cameras, slide rules, pencils, and paper notepads.

    Once a plane left an airport's departure control, the pilots didn't directly talk with any other controllers but instead with the airline's dispatch office which relayed the messages to the en-route control centres. To monitor a plane's position, a network of "checkpoints" along the major airways was established, Upon reaching one of these markers, the crew would report in to the company's dispatch centre with the time they reached it along the estimated time for the next one. This information was then relayed from the dispatch office to the regional flight control centres via telephone. Any requests to alter course or altitude were also were handled in this manner. Crews were also allowed to alter flight plans to a degree as they saw fit for situations like weather (most of the old propliners didn't fly much above 22,000 to 24,000' so they usually had to divert around rather than above thunderstorms/fronts) and in doing so, operated on what was called a "see and be seen" basis.

    If a plane was overdue in reporting in at it's next checkpoint contact would be initiated by the dispatch office, not the en-route control centre. This could sometimes go on for several hours as loss of contact could result from any number of causes from radio malfunction, to weather, to pilots simply not reporting in (common in those days). As time went on there was speculation something grave had occurred, however solid evidence that the two airliners had actually crashed wasn't reported until the next morning when the pilot of a sightseeing plane spotted the wreckage.

    The investigation itself was one of the toughest in history as both aircraft went down in the rugged terrain of the canyon. At the time it was first thought maybe weather was the cause, but upon surveying the scene where the TWA plane had crashed, the lead investigator discovered blue paint scratches on the tail wreckage from the of the Constellation that only could have come from the United DC-7. The tail section was also over 1,000 yards away from the main wreckage which meant it had separated while the TWA plane was still in the air.

    Nearby a section of the wing from the United plane was discovered which had red paint scratches from the TWA aircraft. The remainder of the United plane's wreckage was extremely difficult to reach as it crashed into a sheer cliff above.

    With only this evidence, tapes of the radio messages received/relayed by the dispatch offices,physical models of the planes, a mockup of the DC-7's windscreen to determine frame of reference, and tabletop airway maps with markers to determine the two plane's positions based on tape recordings of the radio reports, he and his team had to reconstruct the events that led up to what was the worst air disaster in history to determine where the fault was.

    Using the models of the planes marked with locations of the paint scratches discovered on the pieces of wreckage, it was determined that the right wing of the DC-7 struck and severed the tail section from the Constellation as well as the portion of the right wing of the United aircraft up to the #1 engine. This meant that the United crew had taken evasive action which was unfortunately too late to avoid the inevitable. The final factor that came into play the weather as skies were for the most part cloudy with thunderstorm cells in the area (as reported by both crews). Given of the poor visibility conditions in the area it was determined the United crew had maybe only seconds to react once they saw the TWA plane appear ahead of them. Airliners (particularly the old prop driven ones of the day) are kind of like ships as due to their size and mass, they are sluggish to react to control input compared to say a WWII fighter plane designed for crisp manouverability. Were the skies clear, he determined that the crew of the United flight would have seen the Constellation while it was far enough away to give them ample time to safely alter course without requiring extreme evasive action.

    In the final report the crews of the planes (usually always the first to be blamed), the dispatchers and controllers were exonerated as the local weather conditions also played a major role. However, the chief investigator also included in his report that the air traffic control system itself was at fault for it was far too prone to failure since it offered no precise means for monitoring of aircraft positions and altitudes or direct contact with flight crews.

    This single incident was a major turning point in air travel safety for it led to the FAA establishing the nation wide array of radar control centres that have direct contact with aircraft in their vicinity and keep track of all air traffic even over the most remote parts of the continent.

    It was kind of a "Quincy of the skies" as back then there were no high tech gadgets then to scrutinize every little piece of evidence. It all had to be done with primitive (to today's standards) tools, previous experience/knowledge, as well as a bit of good old fashioned deduction.

    Because of this one man's work, the skies today are far more safer than ever, even given the high volume of air traffic and greater speeds planes travel at today. The next step which is underway is bringing GPS into the flight deck so flight crews will have a realtime reference to other aircraft in the air around them which could pose a threat as well as give ground controllers an even more precise picture of traffic in the skies above.


    I used to study this kind of stuff when I was hoping to become an aeronautical engineer way back in my secondary school days.

    And now we have things like FlightAware.Com where anyone can go and enter an airport and see the flights entering and leaving or track just about any flight just from the tail or flight number.

    It constantly amazes me the amount of cool information you can find on the web.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,205
    edited December 1969

    Woolyloach said:
    It's 104 hours to get from Austin to Portland, OR via Amtrak. :bug:

    Greyhound is 41 hours. :-S

    The longest flight I've seen has a 3 hour layover in Seattle, and even then it's just 8 hours. :blank:

    I'd PREFER train or bus, so I can take pics all the way up and back.. but that costs me in lost work days. :down:

    Meh.

    100F at 3:00PM. Lovely.


    ...try Southwest Airlines (you need to actually go to their website - Southwest.com - to check on flights/fares as they don't subscribe to the other sites like Travelocity or Expedia).

    Just went there to take a quick look and for those dates (10th - 15th), the lowest fare are 292$ RT. The downside, about a 3 hr layover in San Jose each way but still better than 41 hrs on buses.

    There are shorter flights, but at slightly higher fares. For 323$ you can leave Austin at 7:05am and be in Portland at 11:50am (with a layover of just over an hour in Phoenix). and for your return trip leave Portland at 3:05 PM landing in Austin at 10:15pm. (50 min layover in Denver).

    The good thing about Southwest is you can check up to two bags for free as well as have a carry on.

  • WoolyloachWoolyloach Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    ps1borg said:
    Morning. Cold, rainy, grey and gloomy day, sunrise hasn't made much difference :)

    Good morning! When it's damp, watch for getting moldy! :ahhh:

  • WoolyloachWoolyloach Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    Woolyloach said:
    It's 104 hours to get from Austin to Portland, OR via Amtrak. :bug:

    Greyhound is 41 hours. :-S

    The longest flight I've seen has a 3 hour layover in Seattle, and even then it's just 8 hours. :blank:

    I'd PREFER train or bus, so I can take pics all the way up and back.. but that costs me in lost work days. :down:

    Meh.

    100F at 3:00PM. Lovely.


    ...try Southwest Airlines (you need to actually go to their website - Southwest.com - to check on flights/fares as they don't subscribe to the other sites like Travelocity or Expedia).

    Just went there to take a quick look and for those dates (10th - 15th), the lowest fare are 292$ RT. The downside, about a 3 hr layover in San Jose each way but still better than 41 hrs on buses.

    There are shorter flights, but at slightly higher fares. For 323$ you can leave Austin at 7:05am and be in Portland at 11:50am (with a layover of just over an hour in Phoenix). and for your return trip leave Portland at 3:05 PM landing in Austin at 10:15pm. (50 min layover in Denver).

    The good thing about Southwest is you can check up to two bags for free as well as have a carry on.

    Wow, I'm definitely going to check out Southwest! :coolsmile: Those fares are within budget, I have a goodly amount budgeted for hotel+air fare + taxes etc. :) Thanks for the info! (beer emote)

    The early arrival on Thursday would be nice, I'd get a chance to settle in before going off in search of good seafood. I'm kind of planning on hitting the Lucky Devil Thursday night, sleeping in a bit Friday then seeing about meeting up. :coolsmile:

    All subject to radical change as The Time Approacheth.

  • WoolyloachWoolyloach Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I don't recommend carrying a full pack of food in 104F weather and trying to make an early bus by rushing along on your cane. :ahhh: :bug: Now tired, sweaty, sore of foot, but.. home an hour earlier than I planned! :coolsmile:

    The store had Sam Adams Octoberfest beer so I got a six to try. :red: Everything else was lunch meat, sausage, pepperoni, tortillas, and CHEESE! :cheese: I should be good for about 5-6 days now,

    Glad I kept the two gel cold packs.. makes my busted foot happier. :)

    Off to sip diet ginger ale before dinner and a beer., and install content! Then.. backup time. :blank:

  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675
    edited December 1969

    Woolyloach said:
    ps1borg said:
    Morning. Cold, rainy, grey and gloomy day, sunrise hasn't made much difference :)

    Good morning! When it's damp, watch for getting moldy! :ahhh:


    sun plays coy sometimes

    humids is up. icki

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,205
    edited August 2013

    ps1borg said:
    Kyoto Kid said:
    Jaderail said:
    @ KK, wonderful PC render. I'll not bother to compete now. Even though they did fill in some of the info we needed, your render is too good to try to beat.

    That's more Plane info than I needed in one drop, half of it left my head before I finished it. JK ;-)

    ...thanks, though looks like Totte just upped the ante. :long:


    Yeah, I really was into it back then. Tailored all my coursework to prepare me for entering the degree programme (via a Boeing internship). Then the bottom fell out a year before I graduated. Aeronautical Engineers were a dime a dozen and Seattle almost became a ghost town.

    The hard part about it I still really love the subject (aeronautics and aircraft design, not crashes). Sometimes though I envy the lay person when I travel as I feel I know far more than I really need to for my own peace of mind about these things.

    The whole idea of studying such cases was looking at what went wrong so it doesn't happen again. Personally I don't think I could actually handle working for the NTSB as a field investigator.

    Is interesting, they are lovely large machines ;)
    ...these ones are my particular favourites:

    In order:

    Vickers Super VC-10
    Lockheed 1649 "Super-G" Constellation
    P51D Mustang
    AVRO Vulcan B2
    Convair 990

    cv_990.jpg
    1024 x 695 - 430K
    RAF-Avro-Vulcan-B2-XH558-photo-4.jpg
    800 x 547 - 107K
    p-51.jpg
    1280 x 1024 - 91K
    twa_Super_G.jpg
    1024 x 777 - 363K
    vc10.jpg
    1024 x 778 - 338K
    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • MistaraMistara Posts: 38,675
    edited December 1969

    did i post this one already?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqiH7IYdoCM

    mark ruffalo on late late show. tee hee my belly hurts from laughing, when they start talking about pig personalities. and the goat named goatee.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,205
    edited December 1969

    ...just sitting down the a big fat homemade burger with cheese.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I want this... BIG FAT Buritto with all the fixings, re-fried beans, spanish rice, taco seasoned beef, chopped onion, diced jalapeno, diced tomato, with taco sauce wrapped up warm and tight, smothered in cheese sauce and a big glob of guacamole and sour cream.

    This is what I'm getting... Manwich wrapped in a soft taco sized tortilla, and a side of spanish rice. YUM.

  • TJohnTJohn Posts: 11,214
    edited December 1969

    This is what I want:
    A 3 Musketeer Bar and a cold glass of milk to wash it down.

    This is what I'm having:
    Nothing.

  • TJohnTJohn Posts: 11,214
    edited December 1969

    The cockroaches have escaped from the Stupid Thread.

    funny-pictures-humor-complaints-department-cockroach.jpg
    600 x 624 - 55K
  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 13,260
    edited December 1969

    Woolyloach said:
    I don't recommend carrying a full pack of food in 104F weather and trying to make an early bus by rushing along on your cane. :ahhh: :bug: Now tired, sweaty, sore of foot, but.. home an hour earlier than I planned! :coolsmile:

    The store had Sam Adams Octoberfest beer so I got a six to try. :red: Everything else was lunch meat, sausage, pepperoni, tortillas, and CHEESE! :cheese: I should be good for about 5-6 days now,

    Glad I kept the two gel cold packs.. makes my busted foot happier. :)

    Off to sip diet ginger ale before dinner and a beer., and install content! Then.. backup time. :blank:

    Sam Adams is made right here in Massachusetts! Even though I'm not a beer man, never did like the taste of it.

    Dana

  • ps1borgps1borg Posts: 12,776
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ps1borg said:
    Kyoto Kid said:
    Jaderail said:
    @ KK, wonderful PC render. I'll not bother to compete now. Even though they did fill in some of the info we needed, your render is too good to try to beat.

    That's more Plane info than I needed in one drop, half of it left my head before I finished it. JK ;-)

    ...thanks, though looks like Totte just upped the ante. :long:


    Yeah, I really was into it back then. Tailored all my coursework to prepare me for entering the degree programme (via a Boeing internship). Then the bottom fell out a year before I graduated. Aeronautical Engineers were a dime a dozen and Seattle almost became a ghost town.

    The hard part about it I still really love the subject (aeronautics and aircraft design, not crashes). Sometimes though I envy the lay person when I travel as I feel I know far more than I really need to for my own peace of mind about these things.

    The whole idea of studying such cases was looking at what went wrong so it doesn't happen again. Personally I don't think I could actually handle working for the NTSB as a field investigator.

    Is interesting, they are lovely large machines ;)
    ...these ones are my particular favourites:

    In order:

    Vickers Super VC-10
    Lockheed 1649 "Super-G" Constellation
    P51D Mustang
    AVRO Vulcan B2
    Convair 990

    The Vulcan is a sweet machine hey, they flew the longest combat missions evah in the 1980s? Google fu not that great today doh but think that's right :)

  • ps1borgps1borg Posts: 12,776
    edited December 1969

    Woolyloach said:
    I don't recommend carrying a full pack of food in 104F weather and trying to make an early bus by rushing along on your cane. :ahhh: :bug: Now tired, sweaty, sore of foot, but.. home an hour earlier than I planned! :coolsmile:

    The store had Sam Adams Octoberfest beer so I got a six to try. :red: Everything else was lunch meat, sausage, pepperoni, tortillas, and CHEESE! :cheese: I should be good for about 5-6 days now,

    Glad I kept the two gel cold packs.. makes my busted foot happier. :)

    Off to sip diet ginger ale before dinner and a beer., and install content! Then.. backup time. :blank:

    Nutz to hurty feet but the beer sounds good :)

  • ps1borgps1borg Posts: 12,776
    edited December 1969

    Misty Whisky said:
    did i post this one already?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqiH7IYdoCM

    mark ruffalo on late late show. tee hee my belly hurts from laughing, when they start talking about pig personalities. and the goat named goatee.

    Is that English TV?

  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 13,260
    edited December 1969

    tjohn said:
    This is what I want:
    A 3 Musketeer Bar and a cold glass of milk to wash it down.

    This is what I'm having:
    Nothing.


    I love 3 Musketeer bars. I just had one a few days ago. I've been bad lately. I have to try to be good. I've lost 30 pounds since 2010 and I'd like to lose 30 more. But these things keep calling out to me when I'm at the market.

    Dana

This discussion has been closed.