Daz lighting specifics
Hi friends, Wow ! I ask alot of questions, Lol ! Can someone share lighting specifics or links to explaination. Spotlight, distant light, point light, linear point light.
Does shaders pertain to lighting or surface material ? Like what is Normal shader and SSS shader ?
Think this is where I get confused, don't know what affects what.
Is uberEnviorment2 lighting plus shading ? Like, what's the difference between spotlight and Uberlight ?
Why, is there so many things to choose from, Lol !!!
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Spotlight - a light that shines in a limited cone from a point, with the light optionally getting dimmer towards the edge of the cone. It should really fade with distnace, but the default DS spot light doesn't (uberSpot, in the sore, does).
Distant light. Like the sun, it shines from way away, the position doesn't matter only the direction.
Point light and linear point light. Lights that shine out in all directions. A regular point light dims as the square of the distance (at twice as far it will be a quarter as bright) while linear point light dims in proportion to distance. The former is realistic, the latter can be more flexible.
uberEnvironment lights from all directions, by default uniformly though with a map applied the colour and brightness can be controlled. this fakes the way light bounces off the environment or is scattered by the atmosphere. It also adds ambient occlusion - the way less light will get into nooks and crannies than wil fall on an unobstructed surface. As such it is, potentially, more realistic than normal lights 9though you may want to mix light types).
A shader is what tells the renderer how a light, camera or surface work. Any given shader will give you a range of properties (such as colour, or shininess of a surface, or how the light dimes with distance.
Thanx Richard, will have to allow info to absorb. So shaders are affected by light, got it. So Uberlights works best with scenes/props. What do you suggest for portrait views, such as Echo. None of my renders even come close, regardless of what I do. I'm having difficulty achieving same type of skin appearance. My renders look like newbie renders, Lol !!! For example my avatar. To glossy, no realism. All the characters in the store look like Wow ! But then there's no instructions how to achieve. I'm having difficulty working with skin surfaces, regardless of lighting. I'll apply all different types of light, alway's getting the same glossy results. Any tutorials on achieving realistic portraits with Daz ?
Forgot Echo image.
Lighting in 3D is the one largest issue for all users. Learning good lighting and techniques are the hardest thing to do because each user does things just a little different. But there are many threads on lighting and lighting tips. As a New User I suggest this thread as a very good place to start. http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/1201/
You can get some light here: 5.1 Great Art Now - Lighting
The complete series is here: DAZ 3D Video Tutorials
Some free tutorial from the forums:
Tutorial: Using UberPoint Lights
Tutorial Uber Area Lighting: The Basics
Learning UberEnvironment 2 Return To Topic
Secrets of the DAZ Studio 4 Pro UNIVERSE!
I also recommend those commercial products:
The Basics of Lighting
Portrait Lighting Tutorial for DAZ Studio 4
I hope this help.
I've attached a render of Echo something like the promo image. I also attached an image showing how I did the lighting for this render. I just used two UberAreaLight Planes. One is above the head pointed down and the other is below the head pointed up. I have parented cameras to the UA lights so I can point them more accurately. The Camera for the render is looking between the two UA light planes. Glamour photographers use lighting similar to this for makeup ads and similar applications. It gives very soft shadows, but still gives a strong 3D look.
I don't think the promo images were done with this kind of lighting, but this is my go to lighting setup for glamour type images.
This product has Poser Std Skin Mats, Poser SSS Skin Mats, and DAZ Studio Skin Mats. The DAZ Studio skin mats use the DAZ Studio Default shader. There are no SSS Mats for DAZ Studio. If you are getting very glossy skin, make sure you are not trying to use the Poser SSS Mats in DAZ Studio. The attached render is done using the Genesis version of this character and the DAZ Studio skin mats. I also use the Victoria 4 Corrected UVs, which makes the eyeliner look more like it is intended.
The Promo images do not say how they were rendered, but my guess is they were mostly done in Poser using the SSS Mats. The DAZ Std Mats can produce very good results too.
Mark can you throw a spot in there, set to Specular light only to give some well needed highlights? :) Just to show how these lights can be used.
awesomefb it really does take time and a lot of reading and testing to understand lighting in a realistic sense. We can explain what these lights are as Richard said, we can help you with understanding real world light and how it behaves but when it comes to lighting a scene well as Jad said there is no one right way to light a scene.
No, uberEnvironment is good for general lighting is you are aiming to be realisticish - but I can be slow, and sometimes you won't need the pseudo-bounce light and can dispense with it.
You have it backwards. Shaders define how light interacts in the scene. They can be surface shaders, camera shaders (as cameras can effect the actual light such as in this product.
re: Uber products, you might be mixing up UberEnvironment and UberSurface. They are two different products. One is lighting and the other is a surface shader. As to UberEnvironment, the easiest way to use it and get good results starting out is to think of it as a low level ambient/background light and use other directional lights to fill out the scene. UberEnvironment can add surface detail through ambient occlusion among other things, but typically looks flat by itself. Basic lighting can give depth and good main shadowing to a scene, but often lacks the fine detail UberEnvironment provides (thus adding realism to the scene.) I have some examples in this thread.
I'm a beginner too, both with daz and lighting, so you're not alone in your bewilderment. But if you experiment with the lights (position, angle, intensity) distant lights and spot lights, and render the results, it'll help you understand a little about what they do. But I'm certainly no expert
The word 'Shader' literally means to tell the computer how to shade that particular part of an image, whether onscreen or in a render. Nowadays it usually encompasses everything from Diffuse (Colour) to Specular (Shininess) and even reflections or special effects.
UberEnvironment is a very special type of light because it is itself a shader. Behind the scenes it's running its own calculations to add shading and light to surfaces. The results can be very realistic, but unfortunately by itself it lacks specular highlighting. At its simplest, specular is a type of faked reflection which helps emulate shininess on objects.
A simple light setup which I use for a lot of different works is to simply use a single distant light and an UberEnvironment light. Reduce the UE down to around 40% and the distant light to around 60%. The distant light should have raytraced shadows. The result should be a very well lit scene overall but with the ambient occlusion of the UE and the bonus of good strong shadows from the distant light. The best of both worlds, so to speak. Another tip is to use a light yellow for the distant and a light blue for the UE light to emulate sunshine.
The caveat to using UE is that enclosed areas such as rooms or other buildings tend to block the path of the UE light, and leave interiors very dark, so ambient lighting is more difficult. For such scenes I do my best to make certain off-screen elements invisible so the light still has a path.
I'm more than happy to share other lighting setups I've used in any of my previous works too, should you be curious. Hopefully you can get your head around some of the basics so you can experiment though. That's where you'll find your groove.
I added 2 specular only spot lights, one parented to each of the UA planes. These spots were set at 50% intensity. UA light planes are at 150% intensity.
The way her skin is setup, there is almost no specular response, except on the lips. I verified that by doing a specular light only render. You also see the specular in the hair.
Nice one Mark. Yes the hair looks so much better too. I am in the mid of a big render hence why I asked you Mark, thanks for doing that.
Hello friends, wow ! thanx for all the wonderful replies/information, alot for me to absorb in. At the moment my eyes/brain is fried, from hours of reading computer screen, Lol !!!
Okay, here's next issue I am having, setting up lights. When I create spolight, I do not see it anywhere in preview area, until I zoom out approx 500% !! Then my character model looks like a dot on the monitor. To get it back into the scene, I have to slide Y translate 167, Z translate 350, etc..... Is this normal ? Is there a more simple method to prop a light into a scene ? X, Y, Z Coordinates ?
How far should the spotlight be in front of model, above model or below ? These are the types of settings, newbies need to work from. I view Marks wonderful illustration clueless, and have to guess at everything. Would be cool to include parameter values for each light etc....
I am a newbie, so I have no idea, what UberAreaLight Planes are ? I'm still in spotlight mode, Lol !
Also, another questions is, why so many lights, the world we live in does not have 3 suns illuminating from different directions above, Lol !!! Mark achieved awesome render above with 2 lights. I've seen some illustrations using up to 10 lights. I'm still trying to learn, how to set up one light.
Hi Mark, beautiful render of Echo. Thanx for the excellent light setup illustration. But I still have alot to learn, haven't even start learning Uberlighting.
The DAZ Studio skin mats use the DAZ Studio Default shader. There are no SSS Mats for DAZ Studio. If you are getting very glossy skin, make sure you are not trying to use the Poser SSS Mats in DAZ Studio.
Wonderful, ding dong me, has been doing this, Lol !!! Experiment with Poser SSS Mats.
The attached render is done using the Genesis version of this character and the DAZ Studio skin mats. I also use the Victoria 4 Corrected UVs, which makes the eyeliner look more like it is intended.
Sorry, no idea what Victoria 4 corrected UV is.
The Promo images do not say how they were rendered, but my guess is they were mostly done in Poser using the SSS Mats.
All the illustrations I've seen are done using Poser. Hopefully I can achieve similar renders using Daz.
Uber products, you might be mixing up UberEnvironment and UberSurface. They are two different products. One is lighting and the other is a surface shader.
Your absolutely correct, I thought both were UberEnviroment :red:
UberEnvironment can add surface detail through ambient occlusion among other things, but typically looks flat by itself. Basic lighting can give depth and good main shadowing to a scene, but often lacks the fine detail UberEnvironment provides (thus adding realism to the scene.)
Thanx for Uber info, learn something new everyday. Appears Uber is powerful tool for Daz. Ambient occlusion a new word for my vocabulary notes.
Hi Herald, thanx for excellent info friend. Now, I understand what shader means. I do read of UberEnviroment alot, but don't want to get ahead of myself, still learning to set up lights, to achieve decent results, learning the basics. Lot's of 3D vocabulary, Lol !!! Autocad is a breeze compared to 3D render.
Most are confused, because there's no basic step by step illustrations. Such as how to setup a light, illustrating coordinates, etc..... When I purchased Bryce years ago, a manual came with software, step by step instructions, illustrations. With Daz a person crosses thier fingers hoping, someone can guide them. I'm an Engineer, so I have a tendency to view everything in detail, asking lot's of questions.
Thanx for all your continued assistance, since I first began friend.
Hopefully you can get your head around some of the basics so you can experiment though. That's where you'll find your groove.
Exactly, my personality is to impatient, Lol !!! Going to slow it down, experiment :-)
I'm around, today. Got my mail and will get back to you about some things soon. My arthur is acting up but I'll beat it down with the meds soon. You have not been forgotten. I'm just in slow motion the last few days.
Hi Jade, take your time buddy. Sorry to read, arthur is giving you discomfort, hope you feel better soon. I'm alway's in slow motion, Lol !!! Recovering from hormonal imbalance. 12 pack Dr. Pepper get's me going.
I entered August contest for newbies. Cool to get opinions of others, to further increase knowledge.
The V4 corrected UVs for Genesis are a product that was released not long ago (http://www.daz3d.com/corrected-v4-uv-for-genesis).
UVs control how the 2 dimensional skin texture maps are applied to the 3 dimensional surface of the model. The free Genesis has always supported the V4 UV set, as well as a native Genesis UV set. Almost nobody uses the Genesis UV set. Most characters done for Genesis either use the V4 UVs or they use one of the Gen5 UV sets, like the V5 UVs that you get when you buy Victoria 5.
It turns out the V4 UVs for Genesis were not a perfect match for V4. The Eye Liner make up options for Echo show this. I've attached a render of the eye liner makeup on the V4 version of Echo, the Genesis version of Echo with the standard V4 UVs and with the Correct V4 UVs. You can see that the standard V4 UVs distort the eye liner at the end of the eye. The eye brows are also distorted a little. The Correct V4 UVs fix this so the eye liner makeup options on Genesis look more like they do on V4.
This is really not a big deal, unless you have extensive eye makeup and the distortion bugs you. I just noticed the distortion and changed the UV set to fix it.
If you are just starting out, forget about this. You have lots of other things to worry about and understand first.
Some of the characters in the DAZ store have DS renders. Poser is an older product. It has been around for many years and there is a large community of people with lots of rendering experience using Poser. DS is a newer product and there is a smaller community of people who are really good at rendering in DS. Most promotional renders are usually done by the artist that creates the product, because they cannot afford to hire someone else to do the renders. If they know how to render in Poser, they are going to be reluctant to also learn to render in DS.
Hello friends, I set up 3 point lighting, from Jade's illustration, using 3 spotlights. Took me a few hours, Lol !!! Amazing, what minor tweaking of lighting levels do, I did alot of small renders, to view changes. Tip is to keep windows notepad, for each render change. I haven't figured out how to save my light set up, will do later this evening.
Anyway, best render I've done to date, next step is to figure out surface tabs, another few hrs, 12 pack Dr. Pepper, a bottle of extra strength tylenol, Lol !!!
I like the way, I brought out Lindsey's face detail, at first her face was dark, glossy, nose tip was white, forehead shiny, etc..... Should have done before/after renders, from first light set up image. Now I would like to livin her eyes up a bit. Will experiment with distant lights, etc... as well. Happy rendering :-)
Hi Mark, thanx for all your continued lighting assistance, explaination and tutorial, truly appreciated. Got all your info in my notepad :-) Will read through it all, work on your light setup. I'm sure alot of newbies make same mistake I did. I spend alot of time in Poser content library, cause majority of my content is Poser. I had no idea, DS had SSS shaders. Goodness, Lol !!
I notice character mat's make a major difference in how lighting works. Not all mats work the same, with lighting as I thought.
But, I'll chime in more to your info, once I let it all absorb, I'm sure I'll have more questions.
There is a wealth of information already posted in the threads- but if you want to find something in particular, Google it if it doesn't show up in the forum search (which doesn't always work that great.) All the information on point lights, spot lights, distant lights, etc has been nicely explained in quite a few places, but with the forums being so huge it's best to back up your searches by using Google. :) Also, have you read the stickies?
Hi Novica, thanx for reply. Yes, I've used search quite a bit, at forum and Yahoo, rarely provides info I seek. I've read stickies that apply to me, but could use glossary of terms more. Knowledgable forum members provide tremendous help, I'm making decent progress. Happy rendering :-)
One of the pages that will help alot too is the explanation of the Surfaces tab, as that will affect your lighting. This page in my Art Studio thread is updated weekly when I find good threads. Check out the lighting section :) You can always find a link to this post by going to the FIRST post of my Art Studio (and that's in my signature) as I wanted to make it easy to find. The cameras and lights link by Maclean is one of my favorites.
Cathie
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/19756/P285/#336419
Hi Cathie, thanx for feedback, been reading your tips from the beginning thread, learned a few new things :-) I'm doing my best to slow down a bit, master each section. I'll keep your link in referances, when I began shading techiques, thanx for providing.
Problem I was having was, I was overwhelmed by loads of information and tons of content to purchase, trying to learn everything overnight. Most difficult part of my journey is to keep reminding myself to slow down. I'll see an amazing promo image or a gallery image, frying my brain to achieve, Lol !!! But it's another persons creation, I need to learn to create and apply my own ideas.
I'll continue to read your beginning thread, as I progress. Right now, I would like to learn how each light affects character surface. In a few months, I should be able to set up 20 -30 lights like the more advanced, Lol !!!
Happy rendering friend.
When you put that $5K system together, you'll be able to setup 30 lights ;-)
LOL!! 20-30? I've never once gone that high, heck I think my biggest was 7 seven for a standard render. Now when you need all the light bulbs or candles in a scene to work those can ramp up the numbers fast, but only for those type renders.My very first render may have thrown her off- because I used quite a few and I think I mentioned it often. It took so many because I had four or five lights JUST with the dragonfly (point lights to get the banded effect) and the waterfall behind that had a gradient of colors so there was three more just there- so already there's seven. If I recall, I think my first render was nearing twenty! (with special effects though. And I was playing with spotlights more than distant lights at the time.) So what I'm saying is, I'm a bad influence if someone is reading my thread, lol. (And still am!)
With having documented everything I did from the beginning, my ONE tip for new folks on lighting (for outdoors) would be go out front of your character and off to the side (to make it interesting) with a distant light. From that SAME side, go behind your character and above your character (but stay BEHIND) and test out a spotlight- that makes the shoulder and top of the head pop. Use another distant light from the front and OTHER side as a fill light for the cheek/face. Then add from there. That's quite a few less than 20 :)
EDIT: Look at the gals in my signature image- those were all done using somewhat similar lighting as described above.