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Help sell me on Carrara...

AlbiejeeAlbiejee Posts: 153
edited December 1969 in Carrara Discussion

There are a lot of features...Jack of all traits they say...a few topics on this right now... All of it would be fun to play with I'm sure... But!!!
I'm thinking of using it as a backup modeler to Hexagon. Am I gaining something with the Carrara modeling features, losing or just a push?


Or should I just save up my money and jump into lightwave or something

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Comments

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    leifgl said:
    There are a lot of features...Jack of all traits they say...a few topics on this right now... All of it would be fun to play with I'm sure... But!!!
    I'm thinking of using it as a backup modeler to Hexagon. Am I gaining something with the Carrara modeling features, losing or just a push?


    Or should I just save up my money and jump into lightwave or something

    AFAIK, all of the modeling tools in Hex are in Carrara. (They even share code for most of them, though the interface is different.) You also gain a spline modeler, a terrain modeler, a significantly better text modeler, a tree modeler. The 3D Paint is significantly better, and the UV unwrapper is better than Hex's.
  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,988
    edited December 1969

    and it renders better as well ;)

  • Dream CutterDream Cutter Posts: 1,222
    edited December 1969

    More in the boat...makes it merrier!

  • cdordonicdordoni Posts: 583
    edited December 1969

    The 3rd party plugin developers for Cararra have very reasonable pricing AND they are very receptive to customer needs. Many of them you can talk to directly here on the forums.

  • Rich GellesRich Gelles Posts: 0
    edited August 2013

    To be honest---if your primary reason to buy was to use as a back up modeler ---- for Hex then no you are not gaining much. Now you would be one of the first folks i ever heard who was thinking of buying Carrara for its modeler. Its Modeler is very similar to hex in power but different in look and use and even missing some things compared to hex.

    Now as Spooky said there is also the spline modeler and metalball in Carrara.


    The thing is Carrara modeling stuff is good enough to build anything you want ...maybe not as easy or efficient as many other but it is intergrated well and one waste no time fixing textures etc if you have to import stuff .

    But-- Carrara modeler is one of its weaker parts that said it (Carrara) has a lot of tools many tools to do all kinds of things so its kind of interesting you consider it for a modeler.

    The question I guess is what do you do with your models from hexagon? And as far as lightwave----again what do want to do with your models? Lightwave is very professional and much more expensive that C .

    Post edited by Rich Gelles on
  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    leifgl said:
    There are a lot of features...Jack of all traits they say...a few topics on this right now... All of it would be fun to play with I'm sure... But!!!
    I'm thinking of using it as a backup modeler to Hexagon. Am I gaining something with the Carrara modeling features, losing or just a push?


    Or should I just save up my money and jump into lightwave or something

    Carrara is a full featured suite more than just a modeler. You could build, texture, light and render all within Carrara. I can't say which program has a better modeler or not. To me, one of Carrara's strong points is it's Texture room. You can do almost anything there and not even touch an image map!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,578
    edited December 1969

    Here's Just a Fun Video that I made, essentially treating Carrara as if it were Poser or Daz Studio. I know this is not what you're asking, but it does show an entirely different perspective. Like the grand vista view in the opening, as we approach the monastery in the gorge, all modeled in Carrara by Mike Moir. The expansive, near endless space that you have to work with in Carrara can really take my breath away. I can send things off into the vast distance - even beyond the range of camera view. Why? Most often just an experiment to see the threshold.

    Four minutes in, and you see my Starry Sky model product - which is simple thousands of replicated model stars of incredibly low poly, scattered about in a very specific manner in an attempt to mock the night sky. I've added some of Carrara's fog to help add a nebula effect. Star ships jump in - a somewhat failed attempt at pulling off the right effect - but so I've learned.

    I really liked Hexagon - for the few times I've used it. Personally, I enjoy view navigation in Carrara far beyond the impossibility I had in Hex - but that was likely due to Hex inexperience. So at first, you'll certainly be wanting to just jump back into Hex so that you can just "get it done" - due to the fact that you're so used to it.

    But Carrara is vastly powerful. It has replicators in the modeling environment!

    Here is a really cool example of how you can easily model gears in Carrara by Pete Gregorio
    Just to give you a hint at the power of the model room.

    But then, once you're done modeling, you can do anything! 3D paint, Apply amazing shaders, add as many morphs as you want, UV Unfold and map, totally rig your model with a custom bone structure, or use an existing one, apply modifiers in and/or out of the modeling room, add physical properties and animation... man... are there limits? Not really. Only the power of your own mind.

    G2FPW_Top1AntRT.jpg
    864 x 719 - 521K
    G2FPW_Top1Ant.jpg
    1034 x 686 - 254K
  • tbwoqtbwoq Posts: 238
    edited December 1969

    As a backup modeler to Hexagon, Carrara works fine. As mentioned, its just a different UI and setting things up, and most of the editors can be converted into vertex editable objects(Carrara's strong point). Even the assemble room can be considered a full primitive modeler. You also do not have to switch between apps to make adjustments to a model, especially morhps targets etc. I've used Carrara's modeler quite a bit, and it has been rock solid.

    Not all the modeling tools for Hexagon are in Carrara. For instance. A topic came up recently asking about copying an object along a path. Hexagon has 'copy on support', Carrara does not have this important modeling feature anywhere and no automatic workarounds. There are many others. I haven't used Hexagon much, but from dedicated polygon/vertex modeler standpoint, Hexagon beats Carrara hands down(imho).

  • Jim_1831252Jim_1831252 Posts: 728
    edited December 1969

    I didn't know Carrara had all the same stuff Hex has, makes sense, but I did not found them all. To be honest I never got far in Carrara - squinting at the buttons and menus just didn't do it for me. If you aren't optically challenged Carrara has just about everything you could need. If you think you can save for LightWave it certainly won't disappoint. There are number of modelling tools that you have in Carrara and Hexagon that you won't find in LightWave, but they added a few of those in 11.5. There are great plugins for LightWave, but they tend to come at a premium.

    Carrara obviously wins on the content front. Would love to see a DSON plugin for LW, but I doubt that'll happen any times soon. In just about every way LW wins, but it is 3 times the price of full-priced Carrara. I got lucky with my copy and snapped up a licence for 9.6 (NewTek condone this) at a fraction of the going rate for current versions – upgrade price from any LW version from 5.6 is a flat rate, so best case scenario is that you’ll spend at least 7 or 8 hundred to get a current LW. I actually wrote about this on my blog. I won't link, I don't think that's allowed, but if you follow the link in my sig it shouldn't be too hard to find.

  • TGS808TGS808 Posts: 168
    edited December 1969

    leifgl said:
    There are a lot of features...Jack of all traits they say...

    Actually, they say "jack of all trades". ;)


    Or should I just save up my money and jump into lightwave or something

    $285 vs. $1495? Better start saving now if you're gonna.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    tbwoq said:
    As a backup modeler to Hexagon, Carrara works fine. As mentioned, its just a different UI and setting things up, and most of the editors can be converted into vertex editable objects(Carrara's strong point). Even the assemble room can be considered a full primitive modeler. You also do not have to switch between apps to make adjustments to a model, especially morhps targets etc. I've used Carrara's modeler quite a bit, and it has been rock solid.

    Not all the modeling tools for Hexagon are in Carrara. For instance. A topic came up recently asking about copying an object along a path. Hexagon has 'copy on support', Carrara does not have this important modeling feature anywhere and no automatic workarounds. There are many others. I haven't used Hexagon much, but from dedicated polygon/vertex modeler standpoint, Hexagon beats Carrara hands down(imho).

    I forgot about that one. Surface replicator can do most of that, but not entirely. I stand corrected. BTW Neither Modo nor Lightwave appear to have that function either. (Though I only took a quick look.)
  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    Oh, one little thing that, as far as I can tell, only Carrara does. If you get Anything Grooves from Digital Carver's guild you can bake a Displacement map into your mesh. (Yes, you can model with maps in Carrara. :) )

  • araneldonaraneldon Posts: 712
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Oh, one little thing that, as far as I can tell, only Carrara does. If you get Anything Grooves from Digital Carver's guild you can bake a Displacement map into your mesh. (Yes, you can model with maps in Carrara. :) )

    Blender does that.

    To anyone considering Carrara as a modeler (or anything really) I suggest downloading the trial version and maybe working through some tutorials to get a feel for it.

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388
    edited December 1969

    Dartanbeck said:
    Here's Just a Fun Video that I made, essentially treating Carrara as if it were Poser or Daz Studio.

    ... are there limits? Not really. Only the power of your own mind.

    Wow, that fun video was amazing. Totally blew my mind, especially with the realistic walking scenes and the karate moves. I recognized a number of standard blocks, punches, and kicks in that sequence!

    I am dumbfounded. In a good way!

  • JonstarkJonstark Posts: 2,738
    edited December 1969

    Subtropic Pixel said:
    Dartanbeck said:
    Here's Just a Fun Video that I made, essentially treating Carrara as if it were Poser or Daz Studio.

    ... are there limits? Not really. Only the power of your own mind.

    Wow, that fun video was amazing. Totally blew my mind, especially with the realistic walking scenes and the karate moves. I recognized a number of standard blocks, punches, and kicks in that sequence!

    I am dumbfounded. In a good way!

    I very much agree; splendid work Dart, and I think that nicely demonstrates some of what Carrara can do. What I find surprising is the idea that you mentioned it was rendered at low settings, yet it looks highly detailed. Great vid :)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,578
    edited August 2013

    Subtropic Pixel said:
    Dartanbeck said:
    Here's Just a Fun Video that I made, essentially treating Carrara as if it were Poser or Daz Studio.

    ... are there limits? Not really. Only the power of your own mind.

    Wow, that fun video was amazing. Totally blew my mind, especially with the realistic walking scenes and the karate moves. I recognized a number of standard blocks, punches, and kicks in that sequence!

    I am dumbfounded. In a good way!Thanks!
    My AniMating in Carrara article helps to explain how I use the aniBlock Importer for Carrara and manipulate the keys I get from aniBlock files to get my characters to do nearly anything I want them to. Although I had a good number of fixes to apply, GoFigure actually hired a Black Belt Martial Artist to perform the moves for their Martial Arts packs - which I've bought all three.
    The GoFigure YouTube channel is incredibly resourceful and fun - but I really enjoyed the 'behind the scenes' look at that bit! :)

    I am hoping to get a much newer video up and running fairly soon, relatively speaking. Production for it has begun - but being the time of year for stone-working me... it's a slow-going start to production. Dogwaffle Howler is playing a huge part in it - so I hope to fire off some tutorial or behind the scenes looks at what I'm doing for that. But I feel that animation endeavors are greatly hindered if the rendering software doesn't include an in-house modeler. Which, for content users, makes Carrara the best choice in the world.

    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • ncampncamp Posts: 345
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    leifgl said:
    There are a lot of features...Jack of all traits they say...a few topics on this right now... All of it would be fun to play with I'm sure... But!!!
    I'm thinking of using it as a backup modeler to Hexagon. Am I gaining something with the Carrara modeling features, losing or just a push?


    Or should I just save up my money and jump into lightwave or something

    AFAIK, all of the modeling tools in Hex are in Carrara. (They even share code for most of them, though the interface is different.) You also gain a spline modeler, a terrain modeler, a significantly better text modeler, a tree modeler. The 3D Paint is significantly better, and the UV unwrapper is better than Hex's.

    It had been a few years since I quit using hex, but as I recall there was a nice helix tool that was very easy to use and was great for screws and DNA strands, etc. I've never found a easy workaround in Carrara for this tool.

    There is another hex tool that I miss. That is being able to add thickness to a line, poly line etc. If you are making pipes or wires, just draw a line along the path and add thickness. There is a workaround for this and that is to add a circle and extrude it over the path of the line (well it may not be called extrusion but it is 3 am, so that's close enough).

    ncamp

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,578
    edited December 1969

    Something else...
    I have really been pushing a lot lately, the link to DAZ 3D's instructions for CCT in Daz Studio Pro as an excellent addition to a Carrara workflow. And I still hold to that, because those tools work really well - they do an excellent job of auto-rigging and weight mapping... but then you can export as DUF that can then be read across the board: Poser w/DSON Importer, Daz Studio and Carrara 8.5 to be used as conforming content fully capable of following all of the morph changes and so on. I am totally on that path now.

    However, the same process, I believe, is just as automatically accurate and performance-wise excellent natively right in Carrara, simply by using the "Attach Skeleton" function. Rigging, too, is enormously simple yet powerful in Carrara. If you have weight mapping issues, join the freaking club - as all complex rigs will put you through that no matter what software. That's the nature of the beast, and why such software has been equipped with the tools to "paint" corrections to it. Daz Studio does an excellent job and so does Carrara.So if you don't need the finished product to work for Poser or Daz Studio, you can skip the export/import jazz, and stay right in Carrara. Works Great! I know this because Wendy's been doing it nearly as long as I've known who Wendy is - and she gets some dog-gone excellent results.

  • AlbiejeeAlbiejee Posts: 153
    edited December 1969

    Thanks everyone for the "help". I committed to it last night. I'm looking forward to having fun with Carrara :)

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    ncamp said:

    It had been a few years since I quit using hex, but as I recall there was a nice helix tool that was very easy to use and was great for screws and DNA strands, etc. I've never found a easy workaround in Carrara for this tool. I seem to recall a free plug-in for that. You can also use a twist modifier to get a very similar effect.

    There is another hex tool that I miss. That is being able to add thickness to a line, poly line etc. If you are making pipes or wires, just draw a line along the path and add thickness. There is a workaround for this and that is to add a circle and extrude it over the path of the line (well it may not be called extrusion but it is 3 am, so that's close enough).

    ncamp

    Carrara does have add thickness.
  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 518
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Spooky said:

    There is another hex tool that I miss. That is being able to add thickness to a line, poly line etc. If you are making pipes or wires, just draw a line along the path and add thickness. There is a workaround for this and that is to add a circle and extrude it over the path of the line (well it may not be called extrusion but it is 3 am, so that's close enough).

    ncamp

    Carrara does have add thickness.

    But it only works on polygons, not on Lines/curves as mentioned.

    Also, the workaround of using a circle to extrude along path, that is buggy in Carrara. Was that fixed in 8.5?

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    Steve athome said:
    DAZ_Spooky said:

    There is another hex tool that I miss. That is being able to add thickness to a line, poly line etc. If you are making pipes or wires, just draw a line along the path and add thickness. There is a workaround for this and that is to add a circle and extrude it over the path of the line (well it may not be called extrusion but it is 3 am, so that's close enough).

    ncamp

    Carrara does have add thickness.

    But it only works on polygons, not on Lines/curves as mentioned.

    Also, the workaround of using a circle to extrude along path, that is buggy in Carrara. Was that fixed in 8.5?Not sure about buggy. It appears to work for me. Is there something in particular that doesn't work?

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 518
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Not sure about buggy. It appears to work for me. Is there something in particular that doesn't work?

    I showed you the problem on the old forum the last time we talked about Carrara modeler. The same time you stated Hexagon was too buggy to use.

  • DAZ_SpookyDAZ_Spooky Posts: 3,100
    edited December 1969

    Steve athome said:
    DAZ_Spooky said:
    Not sure about buggy. It appears to work for me. Is there something in particular that doesn't work?

    I showed you the problem on the old forum the last time we talked about Carrara modeler. The same time you stated Hexagon was too buggy to use.And as I recall I haven't said that since 2.5.1.79 was released. Which would make that 2 years ago or more? Sorry if I don't recall that conversation.

  • ncampncamp Posts: 345
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    ncamp said:

    It had been a few years since I quit using hex, but as I recall there was a nice helix tool that was very easy to use and was great for screws and DNA strands, etc. I've never found a easy workaround in Carrara for this tool.

    I seem to recall a free plug-in for that. You can also use a twist modifier to get a very similar effect.

    I've never seen a plug in for that, but if there is one that is great, and I would love to know where to get it.

    The twist modifier is a assembly room option, not a modeling room option. I've tried that to do the flutes on a conveyor screw, but was not happy with the results.

    ncamp

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 518
    edited December 1969

    ncamp said:
    I've never seen a plug in for that, but if there is one that is great, and I would love to know where to get it.

    I have not seen a plugin. I do remember someone posted a "Formula" for a spiral/helix, but that was on the old forum.

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 518
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Spooky said:
    And as I recall I haven't said that since 2.5.1.79 was released. Which would make that 2 years ago or more? 2 years or more since an update to Hexagon, time does fly.

    Sorry if I don't recall that conversation.

    I did not expect you to, so no surprise.
  • ncampncamp Posts: 345
    edited December 1969

    Steve athome said:
    ncamp said:
    I've never seen a plug in for that, but if there is one that is great, and I would love to know where to get it.

    I have not seen a plugin. I do remember someone posted a "Formula" for a spiral/helix, but that was on the old forum.
    Just a follow up. First, to the OP, sorry if we have diverted a little. Carrara is a great program and is the program I use 90% of the time. I highly recommend it. I would rather use it than Studio or Poser. I now have modo, but find myself still using Carrara because I know how it works.

    Second, back to Spooky. I did a quick experiment. Added a 7x7 grid in the model room. Went to the assembly room and did a twist modifier to it. If I double click on the model, it is still flat in the model room.

    I exported the twist modified grid as an obj (default on import and export). When I reloaded the object and went into the modeling room, the object now has 25340 triangulated polygons from the original 49 polys. This is what I meant by not being happy with the results.

    ncamp

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 518
    edited December 1969

    ncamp said:
    I've tried that to do the flutes on a conveyor screw, but was not happy with the results.
    ncamp

    I have been searching the old forum. I see you posted similar to that back in july-2010 (is it the same screw?).

    Rachel_3D was very generous and posted a formula for helix construction for you:-

    (use on a formula object)

    a=1;
c=-1;
r=4;
p=6*PI*(u-0.5);
q=r*v;
x=a*q*cos(p);
y=q*sin(p);
z=a*(p-c*sqrt(rq*r*q));

    Going through that old thread, there was quite an heated discussion of a comparison between Hexagon and Carrara7 modeling capabilities.

  • stem_athomestem_athome Posts: 518
    edited December 1969

    leifgl said:
    I'm thinking of using it as a backup modeler to Hexagon. Am I gaining something with the Carrara modeling features, losing or just a push?


    Or should I just save up my money and jump into lightwave or something

    Personally, it would depend on what you intend to model. If you are serious about modeling and want the toolset, then Carrara or even Hexagon are probably not sufficient. (They both lack even some of the basic tools).

    Now please, do not misunderstand, both Carrara and Hexagon have some good tools, and you can produce probably anything you want given time/experience, however, if Carrara or Hexagon modeling capabilities where so good, then why do DAZ not use either of them to create the characters they sell? (they where using MODO the last time I checked).

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