So now I know why skimpwear is so popular.
ghastlycomic
Posts: 2,531
Because making anything other than tight fitting pants that goes below the crotch is a pain in the area just a little behind the crotch.
Post edited by ghastlycomic on
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Shoulders are another area. Which is why you see so many items with corset type and sleeves.
It's pretty tricky to make baggy clothing bend naturally with the figures yeah. I know because I'm in the process of making several baggy and low worn pants. It's very very fiddly but not impossible. The weight mapping process can take just as long as the uv mapping lol.
But I don't think that's the reason we have such a predominant collection of "sexy wear" on the market. It just simply sells well. And in respect to the additional work for baggy clothing or less skin tight clothing as you pointed out, it is a faster and less consuming process to simply make the tight stuff.
I do wonder if things would be different if the process of making looser fitted clothing was made easier how it would impact the market... But I suspect it would vastly improve male wear and not necessarily affect what's being sold for the females.
Loose fitting clothes can be sexy too, especially with gravity defying drapes and fabrics just barely clinging to the body. But it is a real pain to do all the weight mapping.
Another problem is you have a loose fitting outfit that looks fine in the T-pose but as soon as the arms come down the front and back of the outfit create a Sandwich Board effect. I guess you need JCMs to fix that.
C'mon computer software! Get smarter!
It is both. It sells better due to sex appeal (and a sexual exploitation in extreme cases) and it is also the easiest (and from my point of view, also usually laziest - but it depends on outfit) thing to make. Humans are generally try to optimize the ratio effort/reward as much as possible and do as little work as possible to get as much reward as possible; and in this cases the reward for commercial vendor is mostly money. I understand when people, who just start 3D modeling, make those as a test of skill and freebies, but I'd rather like if they outgrew that stage eventually in favor of more complex outfits.
Don't want to bother with oh-so-much-problems pants? Slice them into high-thigh boots and leotard. Shoulders give problems, midriff doesn't fit well over skirt? No need to bother, just cut it away. And it wouldn't be so bad if skimpywear was at least _good_, but too many vendors don't even bother to fix boobsacks, like here with simple modeling. The fabric around boobs doesn't work this way, SF or not SF.
Oh that boob cling really bugs me! And pretty much every released outfit lately all has that awful cling ! I've passed on buying many nice outfits for that very issue.
In regards to the loose clothing being sexy too, I wholeheartedly agree! And shoulders are certainly an issue when it comes to rigging outfits, that T pose can be really evil. Not only that but it makes it incredibly difficult to place the seam at the shoulders (if you're like me, it's nice to model in seams in the outfits geometry).
Boob cling is a big issue for me. I. Would love some basic genesis shapes that give the impression of undergarments. People in loose fitting sweaters for example usually have a blocky shaped torso. You won't usually see anything but the impression of breasts underneath. Plus wrinkles! I love dawn's new tank top because it doesn't look painted on there are some wrinkles around cleavage areas.
I do agree that boob cling continues to be a nagging problem, ESPECIALLY in things like the example Kattey pointed to.
But I think there are some bright spots recently where I've been happy to see less of it. Restless (which as a tank/undershirt works well to become less skimpy in other contexts) the Paige Dress the Cherish Top and the Jogger are several I like, and even the super skimpy the Grecian Goddess outfit seems to be trying to be all about non-cling.
Jogger isn't a skimpwear. It is realistic sportswear with fully made pants and very nice hoodie (but sport bra could use more work on boobsack, true). Paige Dress isn't skimpwear either and I think it has a fully rigged skirt.
One option with baggy clothing is to model and rig the item skin-tight, then use a morph locked to 1 to bag it out - that technique is what made some items fail in DS 4.0 when Auto-Fit wasn't transferring the morphs, so an apparently baggy item was suddenly skin-tight.
I like Second Skins whenever possible (for animation).
Talk about hassle free!
I guess I wasn't really saying all those examples were skimpwear, merely that boob cling in general, that seemed to be everywhere, was actually lessened in those examples, some of which are skimpy or can be, and some of which aren't, which is something I've been glad to see.
So, the default, lets say, 'Pants' model is a skin tight pair of pants, is rigged as is, then a morph is applied to the pants (Which makes it baggy as intended) and is set to default on the value of 1.0 (100%) which will help the pants retain the smoother rigging you would get had it of been a skin tight pair of pants?
Thats an interesting concept.
So, the default, lets say, 'Pants' model is a skin tight pair of pants, is rigged as is, then a morph is applied to the pants (Which makes it baggy as intended) and is set to default on the value of 1.0 (100%) which will help the pants retain the smoother rigging you would get had it of been a skin tight pair of pants?
Thats an interesting concept.
Yes, and usually the morph would be set to locked and hidden so it didn't get altered by mistake.
Yea, it would be nice if all the merchants made "Hang right" morphs for clothing worn by females. It's SO easy to do. I've made plenty of them and it takes about 5 minutes if that in ZBrush. Then just save it out as a morph and there you go.
Thats good to know, thanks very much! I'll do that with my next clothing project :)
Yeah and since its an issue still with genesis 2, I still fail to see the next generation quality of the figure.
I have absolutely no modeling skills for clothing or anything, but something that has always bugged me with clothing is the fact that no clothing items seem to have shoulder pads. No matter if it's a suit or uniform, the clothing conforms around the shoulders and frankly always looks awful (especially the men's suits with bulging round shoulders).
Is there a technical limitation to making the shoulders in a suit or uniform maintain the shoulder pad shape?
This is a long-running problem with many figures, and some believe this is because DAZ3D figures have a default T-pose instead of A-pose (arms down 45 degrees) as many figures from games and such. I don't know how valid this belief is but it is certainly possible to have crispy sharp shoulders. It takes more work, - which many vendors appear not willing to do - but possible. One of the ways is to use JCMs (Joint Control Morphs) - special morphs that (automatically) only are kicking in when you somehow rotate the bone such as lCollar or rShoulder.
and i thought only football uniforms and some bras came with shoulder pads. i need to go out more.
In the 80s everything had shoulder pads.
And big hair! But in the business world shoulder pads do still exist, especially in suits
Suit jackets and uniform jackets may not have shoulder pads per se but if you look at both the tailoring and the construction, you will find that the sleeves are inset beneath the shoulder seams that join the two front halves the jacket and back. A stiffer fabric itnerfacing is usually sown inside the shoulder area to help it keep it's shape.
The problem is that the clothes move with the body mesh immediately below them, they don't slide over it as real cloth does. When you lower your own arms the fabric over the shoulder stays put and the fabric of the sleeves pulls up a bit. But with conforming clothes the mesh on the shoulder is attached to the skin in effect, and so are the sleeves, so there's stretching at the bend point. Most items will have joint-controlled morphs that compensate for this, to an extent, but there are limits to what a morph (which moves in a straight line) can do to compensate for a rotation. This doesn't just affect jackets and tunics - it also affects things like dress straps that are close to the curve of the shoulder (see the comment above about the prevalence of detached sleeves with corset tops).
No rounded means this?
http://www.daz3d.com/the-marquis
Uzilite is very good at sharp shoulders - but often gets there by designing the clothes to be used with the upper arms of the wearer hidden.
Maybe some day PA's will be able to make Dynamic clothing, and hopefully one that allows for scaled characters and both genders
I hope one day DS will be able to clothify clothes as Poser does -_-
Or add a morph brush, that little poser gem is priceless.
Yea, it would be nice if all the merchants made "Hang right" morphs for clothing worn by females. It's SO easy to do. I've made plenty of them and it takes about 5 minutes if that in ZBrush. Then just save it out as a morph and there you go.
...can it be done in Hexagon or Blender?
...I agree, Daz has been in need an "open" cloth dynamics system (e.g. Cloth Tab) for some time now. This has been suggested in a number of responses on the What would you like to See In Daz 5 thread.
I've read that using Geometry Shells can also help in dealing with the "cling" factor, still need to figure out how to do that though. It's just a little unnerving to have my teen characters look like they're wearing "spray on" clothing.