Ethnics For Genesis 2 Female Concern
RCDeschene
Posts: 2,801
Looks like we've finally got then generation's Ethnicity set with Ethnics for Genesis 2 Female(s) (there will be a male version as well). But something I'd like to comment about the product structure itself. I LOVE how there's actually a whole spectrum of nationalities, instead of just the Asian/African/Native trio, but unsure about how "Each morph has a unique female name, representing its geographic origin."
That's all fine and dandy, but, what if you can't tell what nation the name and face are representing. Granted some are obvious, but not all of them are to me personally, and I don't want to be bothered to look up the national origin of a name just figure out what ancestry I just applied to my characters. Plus, not that I'm ever one to cry "PC", but the concept kind of reminds me of how some ethnicities are slurred by referring to certain nationalities as a name, like calling an Italian male a "Guido" or an African female a "Shaniqua ".
I'm going to PM the vendor and see if I can get a list of who's what. But I'm also interested in what the rest of you guys think about this execution.
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Comments
Nope, I'm in the same boat. I'd love to know what the morphs are supposed to represent. I think the morphs are a lot nicer than the Genesis default African/Asian/Native American morph anyhow...
Personally I preferred the African/Asian/Native American morphs, not because of the naming but because they were easier to fine tune. Sure, I could just dial up the Asian Female dial but I could also mix and match multiple sets of both upper and lower face dials to get the exact look I wanted. Those morphs are probably some of my most frequently used, not just for creating "ethnic" characters but for creating characters with a unique look.
I would love to know the nationalities also. It may be some time before I buy them however. DAZ marketing has got me upset.
I looked at it and was immediately disappointed that it was just pre-built heads. I want more individual Face, Eyes, Nose, Mouth and even Ear morphs so I can build the head I envision. For now it is Genesis Classic and getting all those Merchant Resource morph kits as funds allow.
See also here:
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/28549/
After two disappointing tries with 'Ethnicity' for V4/M4 and Genesis, I stopped buying such products and rely on 'normal' morphing programs when it comes to 'ethnic' morphing. Do we really need more stereotypes? The 'Ethnics For Genesis 2 Female' promos didn't convince me either. Sorry, just my personal taste.
No knock against Cake One's work, but genesis 1's Ethnic morphs are still more versatile. Full head morphs are dandy, but limits the possibilities and they don't work as well when you want to create unique faces/characters. And yes, I agree the naming conventions can be confusing. I see the flavor of it, but it can be a tad frustrating (especially when you can't remember which is which).
What I'm really surprised with, though, is that this is from a PA instead of DAZ in-house. Then again, the V4 shape for G2F is also from a third party.
Thanks PhilW. I believe this will work for me. Start with the base head morph, and make adjustments. Another tool for the box.
That's how I would envisage using it, although some of the faces are rather nice "out of the box"!
Hi everyone
Sorry i didn't see this thread earlier, and didn't receive any PM either otherwise, i would have responded you.
I'm glad Phil asked the question and i hope you could have the answer you were looking for (thank you Phil :) ).
As i explained in the other post, those morphs are influenced by geographic places and ethnicity that goes with it but i didn't push it as far as : This one is Norwegian and this one is Indian, period.
I think in reality, things are more subtle ;)
Some facial features are more obvious than other (i think of asian eyes for instance or nose shape in african countries) but once again, someone may have an italian look and be french or even australian.
I remember in the old days, in old Victoria times (1 or 2, i'm not sure) she had ethnics dials represented with names. Some were german, irish, etc. I tried to go that way.
As for the names, i have searched on the internet what was the most popular name here here and there. Strangely, it's almost the same names everywhere... lol
If you have any more question, please, feel free to ask
Thank you
Cecile
Ditto'ng this. If the promise of the supposedly superior morph-ability of the G2 facial features is going to be fulfilled beyond white-as-default we need a full toolkit of individual features that can be used to recreate the faces of most of the human beings on the planet, and this product doesn't even start to do that. It's fine for what it is, a pack of fifteen faces with several non-caucasian included, but I sincerely hope that neither DAZ nor the PAs think this fills the slot.
As for naming the faces verses labeling them with the intended ethnicities, even with RCDeschene's concerns I think it's safer, especially since Cake One may not have hit her intended targets. I'm not good with faces in general nor with recognizing regional commonalities (which can be a problem for me given my commitment to stay away from white-as-default in my art), but I remember from several online debates on ethnicity-specific casting that the regional-origin differences of Japanese, Chinese, and other Asian peoples can be quite distinct, and to people familiar with these having one employed to represent another can be jarring. In light of this, “Li-Mei could really be chinsese as Ayako would be more japanese but they in fact could be from anywhere in Asia” doesn't inspire much confidence.
This'll come in handy when I need a different face quickly, and I've little of that for G2F so I'm happy to have it! But I hope that future products for G2 in this range have more versatility.
The set is as described, a set of 15 head morphs that can be mixed.
It's not supposed to be a specific ethnic nose + a specific ethnic lip, a specific ethnic eyes etc, as i think it's already in Gen 2 head morphs capabilities.
Sorry if my presentation of the product wasn't clear enough but i'm happy that you like it anyway :)
Cecile
I think they're still a nice addition to the G2F gene pool - you can never have too many morphs! (I'm picking it up when I get paid!)
Cake One, thank you so much for come on here and explaining the product more. I just want you to know that I have no problem with the product itself, and I hope you didn't get that impression from this thread, I just want to make sure I know what I'm using so I don't go off to render a Native American girl, only to have someone walk by and ask me, "Hey, why is that Spanish chick dressed like an Indian?"
Like KickAir 8P, I'm hopeless with tell which nationalities look like what, and actually have unintentionally offended a few international students at my college with my renders before because of it. So since then I've been trying to actually be more accurate. But I do see what you're trying to get at. Hell, I've even made a stylized Native American young adult male with very little addition of the Genesis Ethnicity face morphs...
Hi again
I understand your concern and it's must be a bit hard for you to find the exact feature you need when you're not sure what you should look for.
Your image is nice, it's a good looking young man so the character is actually well done, but for me, this young man looks more asian than native american (just my opinion)
If i can give you a little advice, when you decide to do a specific ethnic character for your render, try a google image search, find several images you like and try to achieve a close result with the morphs dials.
For instance, when i worked on the Ethnic set, i made a lot of google images searches such as "Oriental lady", or "indian princess", "japanese woman" etc.
Of course all the images i found were different from each other, i picked the features i like the most and try to reproduce them, mix them, integrated them.
Take a look here :
"Young native american" on Google image search
See somehing you like?
Go for it :)
I hope it helps a bit
See? There we go! The Spanish chick is dressed like an Indian, again! :lol:
But then again, I actually will take the blame for this one, because as I said, he's more stylized than realistic. He's has a significant amount of H5 dialed in and I did give his eyes a bit of a feminine slant (I wanted him to look rather bishonen for a Native male). Yeah, I know I can simply look up references, that's the thing, I shouldn't have to make it a habit to look outside of the program to get the right look if I'm buying products that are supposed to be built to be those things I'm looking for.