Behavior of purchased jeans and other tight fitting clothing on the genesis figure
Hello! I've been an on and off user of Daz3D for a few years now, however this past year I've started to take 3D art creation more seriously. Before now, Daz3D was just a tool I would use to purchase old models and environments to use as image reference for storyboarding and drawing comic panels.
I started getting more involved with 3D art and even began to start making 3D content for use in Daz Studio. However being a mostly self taught user, I'm pretty unfamiliar with how much can actually be done inside the software, and also about what is possible/practical for this program and what isn't. Which leads me to this question.
Since I would like to use Daz3D as my primary tool for creating 3D renders, I would like to beable to do as much as possible IN studio before having to do things like make specific morphs or purchasing them in the store, textures ect... for a scene, but I've noticed some issues with how certain things behave with conforming clothing and the genesis figure, and while they are fairly minor with how much can actually be done inside studio, are still issues that would need solving before I can be satisfied with a finalized render. I'm also sort of confused and overwhelmed on what exactly needs to be solved in order to come up with a solution.
So I've purchased many items at Daz3D over the years, thanks to some crazy awesome discounts (never know when I might need something) and SOOOOOOOOO much of Daz3Ds in store content is geared towards renderers making pin up imagery, which means lot's of clothing tends to be really tight and skimpy, specially for female characters. But I've noticed, that body hugging conforming clothing doesn't always behave like the real thing (and some of this stuff I'm unsure if even dforce can fix) and I'm not sure on weither or not it's due to how the wardrobe is rigged (I'm only now starting to learn rigging), the genesis figure itself (lack of soft body), anatomically challenged posing, or simply all of the above! Nowhere imo is this MORE apparent than when a figure is clothed in low waisted pants, and this totally baffles me as MUCH of Daz's wardrobe consists of low waisted denim garbs, that this doesn't seem to ever have been addressed.
Everytime I see these items advertised (I don't mean to be a critic, just an observation), they're always in idle standing positions and poses. But as soon as you purchase and use said item and pose the figure in a manner that raises the legs or you want the character to be seated, it looks really unnatural. I began experimenting more out of curiosity with different tricks during the posing process, just to see if it was something I was doing wrong (and many of the renders I've witnessed aswell), but found no solution there. Then I began to try to observe through fashion photos, movies, whatever, on how low waisted jeans behave in the real world, since I never bothered to take notice, until I had an inkling that something wasn't right with some of my renders with characters wearing said jeans. I noticed that when people wearing said jeans raise their legs or are seated, that the waist line flexes and rises depending on how much bending is occuring, and sometimes it can even appear that the body sinks into them despite how tightly they may fit. However on pretty much all the form fitting wardrobe items I currently own from the Daz store, this doesn't occur. In fact, with some of said items, specially in which jeans were a secondary item in a set and thus not much attention was probably paid to them, they stick to the figure like glue! What do I do? :D Or rather, what's the best solution to this problem?
I considered this might be due to genesis's anatomy and lack of soft body, but I don't think soft body morphs would solve this issue (might help), but I'm thinking now that it might be an issue with how certain products are rigged to fit the genesis figure. But if that's the case, why are so many seemingly meticulously crafted items lacking this feature? I know next to nothing about rigging, but I also have my doubts that this is the reason as I've seen many of these type of products go seemingly above and beyond to combat this unnaturalistic behavior of conforming clothing by way of buckling and folding of the cloth at the joints (probably a combination of correction morphs and fine attention to the rig itself).
If the answer is to just not use low waisted attire, that's also a no go as the behavior is seemingly the same for even high waisted clothing, it just wasn't as noticable to me as it was with the low waisted items. I also didn't mention Dforce as I haven't seen many form fitting items that were compatible with it, and even so, I don't believe it would handle a shifting waistline. Somehow I can only imagine a low waisted item with dforce exploding when a leg is raised too high, but I hope I'm proven wrong here!
I attached a quick render made with a genesis 3 character in an extreme pose (I think it was Cai for Meilin?) and Pretty3D's let's go outfit as an example, as I was super satisfied with this item way back when I bought it! (I still am :D) With all the morphs and attention to details that are in said product, I would have assumed they definitely would have solved this issue if it were a matter of making a couple of morphs or adjusting the rigging of the attire.
Is this solvable within Daz3d? Or is a third party program the only solution? (as to make a specific morph, ect) I am a noob when it comes to these things, so any advice is appreciated!
Also to be clear, I don't mean to offend or bash Daz3D's content creators. Quite the opposite, I've been a customer for years, and I love just playing around with products people create for it! I brought this question up because I figured the solution isn't something that can be offered in a product but has to be done on the users end.
- (ignore the blotchy painting by the breast area, I wasn't paying attention and noticed there was a bit of skin showing, and painted over it swiftly JUST to be safe it was NSFW complaint)
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Comments
It's worth trying dForce with older items -some will work, some won't. However, even those that are made for dForce often have areas that are pinned to avoid issues and that's likely to include the waistband (it also saves having to make any button a Rigid Follow Node) so no, it won't necessarily be an out-of-the-box fix even with dForce items
You can fake the leg raising by selecting the foot section of the pant leg in the scene tab, and there reduce the Y scale, but you have to be careful with that. As for the rest, there are some fitting helpers, like
Apart from that, you can use dForce, as Richard suggested, but that needs a bit of practicing. There's a great thread over in Commons that shows a lot of examples and helps with many dForce issues. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/208141/how-to-use-dforce-creating-a-blanket-draping-clothes-on-furniture-and-much-more#latest
Thanks for all the advice! I'm book marking those fitting helpers and morph packs, they look like they'll solve lot's of problem areas! As for Dforce, I started playing around with it more, using it on items that weren't out of the box compatible and had simple meshes. It's tackling the draping much better than expected! I had a bad time with dforce when I first tried to use it on older items. I thought for sure it would turn the clothes into popcorn! :D The ones that did have some issues I managed to fix with some quick weight painting, unfortunately it looks like the waistband area seems to be a major area of conflict with some of these wardrobe sets so I can understand why even dforce ready items would have them pinned.
Also, I hadn't heard about rigid follow nodes until now, so that's something else for me to play around with when it comes to the more complicated oufits! I feel kind of embarrassed about how little I know about dforce lol, there is a lot more it can do and handle than I gave it credit for! And, thanks for the tip about scaling the pant legs, that's a quick fix that I didn't even think of!
I've also been playing around a bit with dformers, but it seems that it's only intended for more subtle deforms, as I tend to get some distorted textures when I move things around with it too much. I'm just super glad that there are many solutions within Daz3D itself to try and tackle these problems!
Thanks once again for all the help! This gives me lot's of options to look at that I wouldn't have known about or considered otherwise.