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Hardware Bottleneck?

LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
in New Users

Hi everybody! :D

This is the percentage of utilization of my PC during an Iray render in Daz Studio 4.10.

I was wondering: which should be my next upgrades? And which performance jump could I see?

This is my hardware:
CPU: Ryzen 5 1600

RAM: 8Gb dual channel 2400Mhz

SSD: 970 Evo

GPU: GTX 1060 3Gb

If I'm right, the bottleneck here is the 3Gb VRAM of my GPU, is that true? So, which improvement could I have with a GPU with more VRAM? How many GB are considered good? Most of all, is Iray supported only by Nvidia GPUs?

For everything else, does my PC need some other upgrade, or is it just my GPU that is holding it back?

Thank everyone in advance :D

Bottleneck.JPG
655 x 440 - 59K

Comments

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604

    AFAIK   it is just the GPU

     

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    Chohole said:

    AFAIK   it is just the GPU

     

    As I thought, thank you! :D

    What performance increase would you guess with a 6/8Gb GPU?

    So the other parts are fine, for example the RAM?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,842

    Yes, you need an nVidia GPU to use it for Iray, and 3GB is quite limiting. Even a 6GB card should give more than twice as much working memory (since the card is already being used for the display, which ties up some resources).

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Yes, you need an nVidia GPU to use it for Iray, and 3GB is quite limiting. Even a 6GB card should give more than twice as much working memory (since the card is already being used for the display, which ties up some resources).

    Thanks Richard :)

    Do you think that with a 6GB card the render times would be halved or something like that?

  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 7,232
    kameneko said:
    Do you think that with a 6GB card the render times would be halved or something like that?

    Two different things. The amount of memory on the card defines how big and complicated a scene the card can handle. The card's other specifications — mainly the number of CUDA cores — defines how fast the render will run.

    Note that you can really only compare capabilities inside one card "generation", i.e. you can compare different 9-series cards or different 10-series cards fairly easily, but it's not so straightforward comparing a 9-series with a 10-series card.

  • ChezjuanChezjuan Posts: 515
    edited November 2018

    Given all the same specs on a GPU other than the memory, the speed won't be affected for scenes that utilize it to render - the larger amount of memory will just allow you to load larger scenes into the video card so that the system will not fall back to using the CPU if the scene and textures are too large to fit iin the card's memory.

    You will see a performance boost for scenes that would not have fit into the 3GB card memory, but fit in the 6GB. That will vary by scene. When I used to render using the CPU (I had a card with 2GB memory so it fell back alot), I had a scene that took 6 hours to render on the CPU, but when I upgraded to a Nvidia 1070 and it could use the GPU, it took 20 minutes. 

    All that to say your mileage may vary depending on other factors, but anything that allows you to render using the GPU will be faster than the CPU for Iray.

    I would also recommend upping your system RAM if you are looking at rendering larger scenes. I am rendering right now, and DAZ has grabbed about 13 GB of my RAM. When I was running 16 GB, DAZ would sometimes use as much as 14 or 15 GB of system RAM while rendering.

     

    Post edited by Chezjuan on
  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    SpottedKitty said:
    kameneko said:
    Do you think that with a 6GB card the render times would be halved or something like that?

    Two different things. The amount of memory on the card defines how big and complicated a scene the card can handle. The card's other specifications — mainly the number of CUDA cores — defines how fast the render will run.

    Note that you can really only compare capabilities inside one card "generation", i.e. you can compare different 9-series cards or different 10-series cards fairly easily, but it's not so straightforward comparing a 9-series with a 10-series card.

    I'm looking forward to a GTX 2060...when it'll come out :)

    Chezjuan said:

    Given all the same specs on a GPU other than the memory, the speed won't be affected for scenes that utilize it to render - the larger amount of memory will just allow you to load larger scenes into the video card so that the system will not fall back to using the CPU if the scene and textures are too large to fit iin the card's memory.

    You will see a performance boost for scenes that would not have fit into the 3GB card memory, but fit in the 6GB. That will vary by scene. When I used to render using the CPU (I had a card with 2GB memory so it fell back alot), I had a scene that took 6 hours to render on the CPU, but when I upgraded to a Nvidia 1070 and it could use the GPU, it took 20 minutes. 

    All that to say your mileage may vary depending on other factors, but anything that allows you to render using the GPU will be faster than the CPU for Iray.

    I would also recommend upping your system RAM if you are looking at rendering larger scenes. I am rendering right now, and DAZ has grabbed about 13 GB of my RAM. When I was running 16 GB, DAZ would sometimes use as much as 14 or 15 GB of system RAM while rendering.

     

    Very clear, thank you! :D
    So, considering that my CPU is now working at 2%, but it was at 22% during that rendering, this means that the scene was larger than 3GB, and I could have that jump in performance too, thank you again :D

  • marco_pasqualini_fotomarco_pasqualini_foto Posts: 68
    edited November 2018

    IMHO 8gb of RAM are not enough for your configuration (or maybe if you use for tipical "office situation"...just for example, I installed 8gb of RAM in my previous PC assembled in 2010), better 16gb or more. If the scene is larger than your V-ram and pass to render with cpu, the CPU load jump to full load not only 22% like happened in your case so the 22% load is not about the scene larger than 3GB ;) also my Ryzen 7 2700X work load during GPU rendering is less or more 22% (Daz Studio)

    Post edited by marco_pasqualini_foto on
  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    marco_pasqualini_foto said:

    IMHO 8gb of RAM are not enough for your configuration (or maybe if you use for tipical "office situation"...just for example, I installed 8gb of RAM in my previous PC assembled in 2010), better 16gb or more. If the scene is larger than your V-ram and pass to render with cpu, the CPU load jump to full load not only 22% like happened in your case so the 22% load is not about the scene larger than 3GB ;) also my Ryzen 7 2700X work load during GPU rendering is less or more 22% (Daz Studio)

    I was planning to upgrade, but I currently have 2400Mhz RAM...it would be a bad investment to take 8 other Gb that way! And the weakest point of my build is my mobo I guess.

    Why do you know that 8Gb isn't enough? I see 2Gb not used, should I look somewhere else?

  • marco_pasqualini_fotomarco_pasqualini_foto Posts: 68

    IMHO you're on limit of usable with 8GB of ram. Also, if you upgrade your GPU with one with more V-ram or add a second GPU you don't have enough memory (now I'm rendering a scene, both and only GPU are rendering and 30% of my 32GB of ram are busy...just for say...). What mobo do you have (you said that's the weakest point)? Now you've 2x4Gb ddr4 2400Mhz?

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    marco_pasqualini_foto said:

    IMHO you're on limit of usable with 8GB of ram. Also, if you upgrade your GPU with one with more V-ram or add a second GPU you don't have enough memory (now I'm rendering a scene, both and only GPU are rendering and 30% of my 32GB of ram are busy...just for say...). What mobo do you have (you said that's the weakest point)? Now you've 2x4Gb ddr4 2400Mhz?

    Yes, 2x4 at 2400Mhz. My mobo is an MSI B350M Pro-VDH.

    So, do you think I should get 2 more ram sticks before anything else? I could buy 2 sticks at 3000Mhz, and then change the other two, instead of buying 2 other 2400Mhz, forcing me to stay that way for a long time. But I have to see how much money I'll have at the end of the next month!

  • marco_pasqualini_fotomarco_pasqualini_foto Posts: 68

    IMHO best solution extra GPU + 8Gb Ram together (if you add only ram you don't speed-up render time...if you add only GPU you don't have enough ram)...but I don't know how your mainboard will react and "digest" different ddr4.

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    marco_pasqualini_foto said:

    IMHO best solution extra GPU + 8Gb Ram together (if you add only ram you don't speed-up render time...if you add only GPU you don't have enough ram)...but I don't know how your mainboard will react and "digest" different ddr4.

    Since I have a mATX mobo I can't add another GPU...and I would have to buy it too!

    I'll upgrade my RAM as soon as I can, thanks :D

    In the meanwhile, they suggested me this product: https://www.daz3d.com/scene-optimizer

    I'll see how it is! I can't continue to render 5 iterations per minute...

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118

    Using GPU-Z I've noticed that during the use of Daz Studio the RAM usage continues to go up and up, and it stops aroun 7,2Gb...so I guess that RAM could be my bottleneck!

  • KitsumoKitsumo Posts: 1,216
    kameneko said:

    Using GPU-Z I've noticed that during the use of Daz Studio the RAM usage continues to go up and up, and it stops aroun 7,2Gb...so I guess that RAM could be my bottleneck!

    That sounds about right. From what I've heard here on the forums, Iray can use about 2-4 times as much system RAM as VRAM. In my case, my sytem maxes out at 15.8Gb RAM while my GPU is only using around 8 or 9Gb.

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    Kitsumo said:
    kameneko said:

    Using GPU-Z I've noticed that during the use of Daz Studio the RAM usage continues to go up and up, and it stops aroun 7,2Gb...so I guess that RAM could be my bottleneck!

    That sounds about right. From what I've heard here on the forums, Iray can use about 2-4 times as much system RAM as VRAM. In my case, my sytem maxes out at 15.8Gb RAM while my GPU is only using around 8 or 9Gb.

    Wow...how much do you think my RAM is slowing me down?

  • ChezjuanChezjuan Posts: 515
    kameneko said:
    Kitsumo said:
    kameneko said:

    Using GPU-Z I've noticed that during the use of Daz Studio the RAM usage continues to go up and up, and it stops aroun 7,2Gb...so I guess that RAM could be my bottleneck!

    That sounds about right. From what I've heard here on the forums, Iray can use about 2-4 times as much system RAM as VRAM. In my case, my sytem maxes out at 15.8Gb RAM while my GPU is only using around 8 or 9Gb.

    Wow...how much do you think my RAM is slowing me down?

    It depends on how much the system needs to support the render. If the system does not have enough physical RAM, it will use virtual memory, which uses the HDD for extra RAM. When this happens, there are several variables - how much the system needs to use virtual memory, the HDD transfer speed and bandwidth, the disk RPM (for mechanical drives), to name a few. 

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    Chezjuan said:
    kameneko said:
    Kitsumo said:
    kameneko said:

    Using GPU-Z I've noticed that during the use of Daz Studio the RAM usage continues to go up and up, and it stops aroun 7,2Gb...so I guess that RAM could be my bottleneck!

    That sounds about right. From what I've heard here on the forums, Iray can use about 2-4 times as much system RAM as VRAM. In my case, my sytem maxes out at 15.8Gb RAM while my GPU is only using around 8 or 9Gb.

    Wow...how much do you think my RAM is slowing me down?

    It depends on how much the system needs to support the render. If the system does not have enough physical RAM, it will use virtual memory, which uses the HDD for extra RAM. When this happens, there are several variables - how much the system needs to use virtual memory, the HDD transfer speed and bandwidth, the disk RPM (for mechanical drives), to name a few. 

    Thanks! :D
    Luckily I have an NVME ssd!

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118

    UPDATE: Since you all have helped me so much in my first threads, you deserve an update, and I hope this will help someone else from Google too! :D Of course I won't write the same post in those 4 threads, but just here, thanks again! ^^

    • I've moved my whole library on my primary NVME SSD, and this has helped me to load scenes and every single item much faster! It still takes some times for characters with lot of morphs. I thought I needed more space than this, but actually, after I reinstalled only the products (with Daz Connect, that I guess compresses a little bit more) and the freebies I actually use, I went down from around 300Gb to 50Gb (I had actually installed everything multiple times...noob mistakes!)
    • I've bought 2 more RAM sticks, going from 2x4Gb 2400Mhz C15 to 4x4Gb 2667Mhz C14 (because I've also overclocked them a little bit), and I'm actually using more than 8Gb (around 11-13Gb for a standard scene) now, so it means that was a bottleneck too!
    • I've bought "Scene Optimizer", and it revolutionized my workflow, because now much more scenes fit into my little VRAM!
    • I've set different Daz Studio settings, first of all select "Best" as "Display Optimization": this simple thing has radically changed my experience, because now it doesn't stutter anymore during the scene creation, even in Iray/Texture Shaded, while before I had to use "Smooth Shaded" and "Wiring Boxes" during the manipulation.
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