Is Daz Studio working better with Intel than with AMD CPU's?
Rafa20
Posts: 92
After I changed my hardware completely (changed everything but the SSD's), Daz Studio is working and loading the scenes a little slower. All interface adjustments in Daz Studio 4.11 Beta are the same as before (for the fastest working performance)!
My hardware before:
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 7 - CPU: i7 7700K - RAM: 4x HyperX DIMM 8GB DDR4-2133MHz - GPU: 2x GTX 1080 Ti - operating system: Windows 10 (64 Bit)
My hardware now:
Motherboard: Gigabyte X399 Xtreme - CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1920X - RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB (4x16GB) DDR4 2666MHz C16 XMP 2.0 High Performance - GPU: 2x RTX 2080 Ti - operating system: Windows 10 (64 Bit)
Actually it should work faster but it loads the scenes slower and also some things in the application (like turning a head from +22 to -22) are a little slower. Also loading things into the scene became slower! It can actually only be the CPU change from Intel to AMD. I even overclocked the Threadripper CPU to 3,8 GHz but it remains the same. So is Daz Studio working better with Intel than with AMD CPU's?
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Comments
You don't understand how these things work.
Daz Studio is mostly a single threaded application when doing things like loading a scene or posing a figure. The I7 has a higher clock speed than the 1920X. Therefore the 1920X will do those things a little slower, actually noticeably slower 3.8 Ghz vs. 4.8 Ghz or higher. What the 1920X will do better than the I7 is render or any other multithreaded task. It has nothing to do with brand.
Yeah, I heard it too somewhere, that Daz Studio is so "great and modern" designed/programed that it uses just one single core of a CPU! If this is really true than it's a joke, sorry! Similar to that it uses the VRAM of just one GPU never mind of how many you got in your computer housing! I really don't understand why it can't just take the power of the entire hardware!!! And actually my i7 was on 4,0 Ghz and was still faster! And 3,8 or 4,0 are not really a huge difference! And I also could overclock the AMD to 4,0 but I don't think this would change anything but my electricity bill! Daz Studio should really go with the time! I mean every new CPU, never mind intel or AMD has got more cores with fewer GHz! So to work faster with Daz Studio I need to buy an older Intel CPU which had less cores but more GHz per core! Daz Studio can't be serious!
For example the Intel Core i9 Extreme Edition i9-9980XE! It has 18 cores with "just" 3,0 Ghz base clock for around 2.500 €. But Daz Studio would work even slower with it!!! Really???
Not all tasks can be made multi-threaded.
You really cannot multithread loading a file from disk which is what loading a scene is.
A 200 Mhz difference is not huge in tasks that only last a few seconds. In tasks that last minutes or hours...
As to why Daz or any software can't use every available thread at all times, most tasks simply don't benefit from trying to do so. Spinning off threads for minor subtasks and waiting for them to finish would take longer than doing it in one thread.
Also every new CPU isn't slower. The overall trend has both toward both more high clock speed and more cores. You bought a CPU with a lot of cores which always tend to be slower than the current generations gaming CPU's.
You should have gotten better educated about what you were buying rather than just spending a lot of money on hardware you didn't understand.
Well actually I do also understand something about the hardware I bought! I know that for rendering anything that counts are cuda cores. So two 2080 ti's are around 17-18% faster in rendering than my last two 1080 ti's! And I've seen tests and also read reports about the AMD threadripper CPU's. And in comparison to my i7 7700K, the threadripper 1920X was stronger and even much stronger in really every category but the energy efficiency! And especially because it was said that the AMD is the best for working with 3D or movie programs, I turned from Intel to AMD at the end! It's not my fault that Daz Studio doesn't benefit from such a power! And I don't know why you're saying "The overall trend has both toward both more high clock speed and more cores" because if I look on the higher i7 or i9 cores, they all got lower GHz per clock than the i7 7700K. So eventually my 7700K was the best CPU for working with Daz Studio.
And by the way... even in the Daz forums here I read that there isn't much difference between Intel or AMD CPU's for working with the program. But it seems there is though!
But you're simply wrong. The I7 8700k and I9 9900k, which are the generational successors of the 7700k have both more cores and higher clocks. On the AMD side the Ryzen+ chips are faster than the first gen Ryzen chips, and if the rumors pan out Ryzen 2 will have both higher clocks and more cores, and the TR+ chips are both faster and have more cores than the first gen TR chips, doubling the core count for the same price.
Actually no 3D program would benefit from a TR chip if your benchmark is stuff like loading a scene or posing a figure. Those are simply not going to benefit from having lots of cores. 3D programs benefit from having lots of cores when it comes time to render, when you need to do stuff like pan the camera around and other things that can be multithreaded.
Well, but from the dates (base clocks):
i7 7700K: 4x 4,2GHz
i7 8700K: 6x 3,7GHz
i9 9900K: 8x 3,6GHz
The i9 you could overclock up to 5.00 GHz but overclocking is such a thing...
Furthermore: Have you ever seen in real life how huge (wide) an EVGA RTX 2080 Ti is? And I got two of them! The Intel CPU's are all for 1151 sockets and I didn't find a 1151 motherboard which could handle 2 of such GPU's (two 16x slots with enough space between each other)! The TR4 sockets are actually made for gamers who are going to use two hardcore GPU's! So... how certain are you that the i9 would be faster for working in Daz Studio with its 3,6 GHz base clock and... which 1151 socket motherboard can handle two RTX 2080 Ti's on full power with enough space between each other???
No, because of turbo clocks under low thread workloads . It might go up to 4.5 under a single thread
Also , clock speed is only partly responsible. When you are loading a big scene , sometimes you are transfer limited and the bottle neck is your hard drive or ssd .
And clock speed does not indicate the same thing between architechural generations , because of "instructions per clock" . In short, a 3Ghz CPU from 5 years ago will be slower than a 3Ghz from a recent generation at 3Ghz with the same core count
These AMD processors are very sensitive to memory speed. The "slow" 2600 memory will contribute a large part to the lack of performance your seeing.
Also you. chose a 3 slot wide graphic card not me. There are standard 2 slot 2080ti's.
Increasingly it is clear that you simply threw away a lot of money away without doing the sort of research someone pending nearly $4k USD should have.
I bought a 1950x and for most tasks it is faster; a couple im not sure about.
I use SSDs for everything, so loading from disk doesn't register as a particular problem - it might be slower, but I'll take slower loading as I get semi-decent render times when it does drop to CPU.
I've had it since the Threadripper (v1) was released; no regrets and am considering the new versions due next year.
Have you upgraded your motherboard's BIOS? I noticed increased stability and possible performance too when I did that.
The high-core count CPUs will benefit 3D applications that do not take advantage of the GPU (bcause of the way they are coded or because of memory limits). A 3delight render should show the benfit of your new CPU, as should an Iray render that is too large to fit in the GPU memory on either system.
@nicstt yes, I've updated the Bios right away before installing Windows! And I also thought about the 1950X first. But then I thought, because I'm rendering with the GPU's only anyway, I can also take the smaller 1920X. But do you think there would be any big difference between them? And what about the TR 2950x? Or are they really all weaker for working in Daz Studio than the bigger Intel CPU's?
@kenshaw011267 well, first of all there was just the EVGA and Zotac version available and even now I don't see where I could buy any other (quality) version of that GPU (Asus, Gigabyte)! And secondly, every 2080 Ti is similar wide!!! I mean how else you wanna cool that monster??? The only option would be to taking off the standard cool body and put a water cooler on it! But this is something only experts could do and you also lose any warranty on the GPU this way! And thirdly, I can't find any 1151 Intel mainboard with two 16x slots anyway! So, to render with two 2080 Ti monsters in full power you actually only can do it with an AMD TR4 socket at the moment! Or maybe I've overlooked something!
So, I see that no one here also has a solution, which system would be optimal for working (CPU) and rendering (with two 2080 Ti's) in Daz Studio with full power. Money is no object in this case! The biggest issue here is that the CPU and mainboard needs to be suitable with two 2080 Ti's (in two 16x slots with enough space between each other)!
You don't need x16 slots for rendering. You could use x1 it would just take a few seconds longer to get the render started.
Gigabyte's Windforce card, amongst others, is a two slot card.
https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/GV-N2080TWF3OC-11GC#sp
It's been available since day of launch. You may have been shopping while cards were out of stock but that should have been a clue to wait a couple of weeks.
The issue isn't that there isn't hardware that can do what you want but that you do not know enough about hardware to know that and didn't ask someone who did.
if spending a few seconds loading a scene really bugs you that much then return the TR rig and get a I9 9900k and get the two windforce cards.
I think the next generation of AMD CPUs, probably announced in January at CES, will reach Intel's IPC, because of the new 7nm production process, so we won't have this problem anymore!
I have two desktop PCs, both with AMD 1st Gen CPUs, and I have to admit that the loading time is pretty slow overall.
Altough, I'm going to upgrade soon my RAM (minimal impact on this I guess) and to buy a secondary SSD where to store DAZ products.
I learnt that the more morphs a figure has, the slowier it takes to load, so now I try to use as few morphs as I can to get to my objective. Maybe using Daz Connect instead of DIM reduces the loading time too? I don't know, but on my 2nd PC I have a cleaner Daz Library, on the same HDD model, and it loads much faster.
PS the CPU rendering time is very different on a Ryzen 5 1600 vs a Ryzen 3 1200!
I think the hype over Ryzen 2 is getting overblown. It is extraordinarily unlikely that it will achieve ipc parity with Intel's most recent offerings. Will it likely close the gap significantly? Probably. But this talk of a jump from where Ryzen + is to where the 9900k is is just not believeable. If AMD thought they were even close to that they wouldn't be releasing it at CES. They'd hold their own stand alone launch event to be sure they got all of the tech press news cycle.
I think we'll likely see another 200 to 400 Mhz clock speed bump and a harder to quantify ipc gain. Along with that we might see a bump up in cores and threads to put more pressure on Intel where they're clearly struggling.
With that kind of money, I would've purchased the new Titan RTX card.
The 9900k is another category and has another price tag, we're talking about consumer stuff, so 9700k! It's built with a 14nm process, while the Ryzen 7 3700X will use a 7nm one!!! I don't have to tell you that the difference is huge!
Consider that the Ryzen 5 2600 has 10-15% more IPC than the 1600, but it uses 12nm instead of 14nm.
So, they could not reach Intel's IPC yet, but I think the IPC gain will be far from insignificant.
Die size is not the only or even a major factor in ipc. Chip design is far more important and Intel has a clear, but shrinking advantage there.
There is some truth to that comment. However DAZ Studio is FREE. It's not like we are paying big bucks for this app like 3DMax, Maya, MODO. Even Poser costs near $100 and the Pro version much more. So when that is put in perspective DAZ Studio is pretty damn awesome.
I also use 3DCoat and frequent their forum. Many posters there are jumping from Intel to the new AMD Ryzen chips with great success. 3DCoat also runs a lot better on Nvidia as does e-onsoftware's Vue product. Another app I love and use.