Is IK being worked on?

takezo_3001

If not, why not? And is there a way to fix it so it can function properly? As it stands, it's too loose and unreliable in comparison to Poser's/Maya/s/IClone's version... c'mon Daz, live up to your dazzling namesake!

wolf359

takezo_3001 said:

If not, why not? And is there a way to fix it so it can function properly? As it stands, it's too loose and unreliable in comparison to Poser's/Maya/s/IClone's version... c'mon Daz, live up to your dazzling namesake!

Hi 
I would seem that the Daz pose controls present a huge problem
when trying to co-exist with a usable IKFoot& hand contact solver
( posers "IK" is not actually usable in production either)
The author of this DSON based May plugin seems to confirm this.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/278111/dex-dson-exchange-plugin-for-maya

takezo_3001

wolf359 said:

takezo_3001 said:

If not, why not? And is there a way to fix it so it can function properly? As it stands, it's too loose and unreliable in comparison to Poser's/Maya/s/IClone's version... c'mon Daz, live up to your dazzling namesake!

Hi 
I would seem that the Daz pose controls present a huge problem
when trying to co-exist with a usable IKFoot& hand contact solver
( posers "IK" is not actually usable in production either)
The author of this DSON based May plugin seems to confirm this.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/278111/dex-dson-exchange-plugin-for-maya

Thanks for the link!

Yeah, it's irritating that they only partially implemented IK in its current form, as it stands, animation has suffered greatly for it; my fear is that Daz Studio 5 will introduce too many distractionary features as to render their established, incomplete features moot... IK and the animation features including mimic have been abandoned in favor for D-Force which is only practical with the over-priced animation blocks and still images, which really sucks as it would be perfect for a functional IK rigging/animation suite!

 

 

wolf359

To be fair the primary target demographic of Daz are still image makers
who only need posing tools ..not animation tools.

Also the 64 mimic live plugin gives a decent base result for me
even with G8
as I always add secondary facial animation on top of my lipsync.

We animators  must simply invest in "external" options.

Sorel

Daz has been posting animated video shorts for quite some time now, and some of them have interesting effects in them. I wonder if these will be new features of daz.

takezo_3001

wolf359 said:

To be fair the primary target demographic of Daz are still image makers
who only need posing tools ..not animation tools.

Also the 64 mimic live plugin gives a decent base result for me
even with G8
as I always add secondary facial animation on top of my lipsync.

We animators  must simply invest in "external" options.

Somewhat true, (I should have been more specific with the original Mimic) but what is the point of having animation capabilities if you aren't going to finish developing it? My question still stands, though it will have to be answered by the developers/daz themselves, so I do hold out hope that the animation capabilities are expanded and not abandoned!

Sorel said:

Daz has been posting animated video shorts for quite some time now, and some of them have interesting effects in them. I wonder if these will be new features of daz.

I do hope so as Daz Studio is my favored default program!

nicstt

takezo_3001 said:

wolf359 said:

takezo_3001 said:

If not, why not? And is there a way to fix it so it can function properly? As it stands, it's too loose and unreliable in comparison to Poser's/Maya/s/IClone's version... c'mon Daz, live up to your dazzling namesake!

Hi 
I would seem that the Daz pose controls present a huge problem
when trying to co-exist with a usable IKFoot& hand contact solver
( posers "IK" is not actually usable in production either)
The author of this DSON based May plugin seems to confirm this.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/278111/dex-dson-exchange-plugin-for-maya

Thanks for the link!

Yeah, it's irritating that they only partially implemented IK in its current form, as it stands, animation has suffered greatly for it; my fear is that Daz Studio 5 will introduce too many distractionary features as to render their established, incomplete features moot... IK and the animation features including mimic have been abandoned in favor for D-Force which is only practical with the over-priced animation blocks and still images, which really sucks as it would be perfect for a functional IK rigging/animation suite!

 

 

You have news about Daz Studio 5?

Richard Haseltine

wolf359 said:

takezo_3001 said:

If not, why not? And is there a way to fix it so it can function properly? As it stands, it's too loose and unreliable in comparison to Poser's/Maya/s/IClone's version... c'mon Daz, live up to your dazzling namesake!

Hi 
I would seem that the Daz pose controls present a huge problem
when trying to co-exist with a usable IKFoot& hand contact solver
( posers "IK" is not actually usable in production either)
The author of this DSON based May plugin seems to confirm this.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/278111/dex-dson-exchange-plugin-for-maya

I'm not sure what you are geting that from - the plug-in developer certainly says that, in Maya, applying HumanIK interferes with soem features that would otherwise coem over from DS but that falls well short of saying that Pose Controls present a problem for IK within DS - it  might simply be a result of the way the (non-native) feature is set up in Maya.

wolf359 said:

To be fair the primary target demographic of Daz are still image makers
who only need posing tools ..not animation tools.

You are prone to saying this, but it certainly isn't something Daz has said.

takezo_3001

nicstt said:

takezo_3001 said:

wolf359 said:

takezo_3001 said:

If not, why not? And is there a way to fix it so it can function properly? As it stands, it's too loose and unreliable in comparison to Poser's/Maya/s/IClone's version... c'mon Daz, live up to your dazzling namesake!

Hi 
I would seem that the Daz pose controls present a huge problem
when trying to co-exist with a usable IKFoot& hand contact solver
( posers "IK" is not actually usable in production either)
The author of this DSON based May plugin seems to confirm this.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/278111/dex-dson-exchange-plugin-for-maya

Thanks for the link!

Yeah, it's irritating that they only partially implemented IK in its current form, as it stands, animation has suffered greatly for it; my fear is that Daz Studio 5 will introduce too many distractionary features as to render their established, incomplete features moot... IK and the animation features including mimic have been abandoned in favor for D-Force which is only practical with the over-priced animation blocks and still images, which really sucks as it would be perfect for a functional IK rigging/animation suite!

 

 

You have news about Daz Studio 5?

No, not really, just speculating although it's a LooOOoog way off as we're only at version 4.10 now and we've been in beta 4.11 for 7 months, so we probably won't see it for a long, long time!

 

mikael-aronsson

Maya and iClone use full time IK, DS use an ancient part time IK system that require baking to keyframes, so it's not fair to compare them, with full time IK and a setting so you can stop IK chains when needed (hip for example) it would be pretty ok.

 

Richard Haseltine

mikael-aronsson said:

Maya and iClone use full time IK, DS use an ancient part time IK system that require baking to keyframes, so it's not fair to compare them, with full time IK and a setting so you can stop IK chains when needed (hip for example) it would be pretty ok.

I'm not at all sure what you mean here. Pinning in DS stops the IK chain.

johranshadi

I don't know about the other software you mentioned but in daz I've been using target helpers with pinning. It does require some frame by frame work though. I like the IK system in carrara more.

Padone

Richard Haseltine said:

I'm not at all sure what you mean here.

What Mikael says is obvious to anyone making animations. DAZ doesn't provide a full-time ik system. That is, it doesn't provide animatable ik handles. That means that the ik handle (or pin) only serves to pose the character, but it is not an object accounted for in animation.

That makes a huge difference. Since a full-time ik will keep a "pinned" hand in place during the animation, while a part-time ik will not unless it is backed.

Richard Haseltine

Padone said:

Richard Haseltine said:

I'm not at all sure what you mean here.

What Mikael says is obvious to anyone making animations. DAZ doesn't provide a full-time ik system. That is, it doesn't provide animatable ik handles. That means that the ik handle (or pin) only serves to pose the character, but it is not an object accounted for in animation.

That makes a huge difference. Since a full-time ik will keep a "pinned" hand in place during the animation, while a part-time ik will not unless it is backed.

No, there are not parentable targets if that is what you mean - but the second half seems to be saying something different.

wolf359

Maya and iClone use full time IK, DS use an ancient part time 
IK system that require baking to keyframes,

Reallusion leased their Maya human IK system from Autodesk.
It is a proper Ik system With realtime foot and hand contact solving during vertical and lateral root motion
with uneven terrain recognition.

Those so called "pins" in Daz studio do NOT perform contact Solving during motion
hence they simply "snap off" when you move the "pinned" foot/hand beyond the most minimal range of motion.
Pining  and using the "point at"  option of  a hand or foot to a stationary object, sometimes works and sometimes not.
YMMV.

I find them much more stable  if you select to body part to be moved  and us the 
manual XYZ rotation /translation tools .

Using the Daz studio Pose control sliders instantly snaps the pins(Hmmm??)

Poser"IK" has  slightly better performance however it is an all or nothing proposition.

One can pin feet in poser for a realistic squating motion however if you 
 unpin the feet ,later in time ,to have the figure perform a root locomotion motion like walking
Poser forcibly tries to retroactivelly  re-pin the feet, buggering the entire animation.

At least Daz studio only ruins the bit where the pins failed allowing you to salvage everything before and after
that.

BTW if you want some really cool fun with animation in DS get the free Cycler plugin from Mcasual.
https://sites.google.com/site/mcasualsdazscripts/
Automatic repetition of any morph parameter for "jiggly bellies"
hair/clothing movement morphs trembling etc etc. 

Daz studio with  GraphMate/KeyMate/ Animate2 /mimic live/Mcasual's scripts
can be used to create some pretty complex animations,despite the lack of a true IK solver.
 
IMHO A better value than poser in this consumer space.

takezo_3001

wolf359 said:

Maya and iClone use full time IK, DS use an ancient part time 
IK system that require baking to keyframes,

Reallusion leased their Maya human IK system from Autodesk.
It is a proper Ik system With realtime foot and hand contact solving during vertical and lateral root motion
with uneven terrain recognition.

Those so called "pins" in Daz studio do NOT perform contact Solving during motion
hence they simply "snap off" when you move the "pinned" foot/hand beyond the most minimal range of motion.
Pining  and using the "point at"  option of  a hand or foot to a stationary object, sometimes works and sometimes not.
YMMV.

I find them much more stable  if you select to body part to be moved  and us the 
manual XYZ rotation /translation tools .

Using the Daz studio Pose control sliders instantly snaps the pins(Hmmm??)

Poser"IK" has  slightly better performance however it is an all or nothing proposition.

One can pin feet in poser for a realistic squating motion however if you 
 unpin the feet ,later in time ,to have the figure perform a root locomotion motion like walking
Poser forcibly tries to retroactivelly  re-pin the feet, buggering the entire animation.

At least Daz studio only ruins the bit where the pins failed allowing you to salvage everything before and after
that.

BTW if you want some really cool fun with animation in DS get the free Cycler plugin from Mcasual.
https://sites.google.com/site/mcasualsdazscripts/
Automatic repetition of any morph parameter for "jiggly bellies"
hair/clothing movement morphs trembling etc etc. 

Daz studio with  GraphMate/KeyMate/ Animate2 /mimic live/Mcasual's scripts
can be used to create some pretty complex animations,despite the lack of a true IK solver.
 
IMHO A better value than poser in this consumer space.

Thanks for the Mcasual link, yeah; those pins are pretty useless, I'll give the pose/parameter manipulation a go.