Game Developer EULA legal clarification

ARealiti

To DAZ Legal, please pass this question to DAZ Legal...

I would like to be one of the first to use DAZ models and promote them in video games, but I really don't want a company with the resources of DAZ suing me so I need clarification of the following regarding the Game Developer EULA.

I believe the following clause in your Game Developer EULA to be impossible to fulfil. I believe the clause creates an obligation that is impossible and is misleading that it is possible. What would be the consequences of releasing a game and having assets stolen from the game that I have legitimately purchased under your Game Developer EULA, i.e. DAZ vendor assets with a Game License? Would you start an action against me? How would I go about proving the impossible, that I used every resource at my disposal, one resource for instance would be a hardware dongle or distributing the game only with a new hardware system device and not to any normal computer, but this would be so costly and probably not even effective at any rate. Should I also ask those purchasing the game to provide biometrics and sign a direct contract in every jurisdiction? To a reasonable person this clause makes it highly likely the first user of DAZ models to release a game will be sued by DAZ...

"User warrants and is responsible to ensure that the CRT Content used in the User’s application are not available to end users in their native formats and that every effort is made to protect the CRT Content from theft or copyright infringement by employing technology, asset protection, encryption or any other resources at User’s disposal."

See why this is impossible at:
http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/81920-Protect-3D-Models
http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/207531/how-to-protect-unity-assets-in-342f3-from-being-st.html

The legal contractual obligation created in this clause that the purchaser of the Game License must use any resources available to protect assets is overtly impossible, and is not part of the Turbosquid EULA for this reason...
http://support.turbosquid.com/entries/170985-End-User-License-Agreement-EULA-

It also not part of the Unity3D Asset Store EULA for the reasons stated...
http://unity3d.com/company/legal/as_terms

Mark Lyons
Director Hot Action Games

FSMCDesigns

Simple Mark, create your own assets for games rather than using models designed for other purposes which is what DAZ assets are.. Yes, there are some licenses, but i would bet those are there to help cover costs and their butts for when their assets are used in a game which happens legally and illegally all the time. Turbosquid and DAZ cater to different clientele with the common denominator being 3D mesh

Really, the same concern of losing their assets to thieves and those with no moral compass in that forum thread you posted is the same concern every 3D developer has, whether it is for content in a game or content used for poser/daz. in a perfect world all illegal torrent sites would be blown up, mesh formats would be proprietary to the application with no way to transfer them and those that steal would be thrown in a hole or executed. Then developers could actually focus on being creative and not worrying about possible DRM schemes and ways to protect their hard work.

Lissa_xyz

There is an alternative, use MakeHuman models. They're open source and can be used in anything.

ARealiti

Hi all, no offense and I appreciate feedback, but could everyone please just focus on the legal question asked, suggestions not to use DAZ models under a license that has been offered for sale are with all due respect outside the scope of the request. I am also writing a legal letter to DAZ for this clarification, but was hoping this might bring it to their attention more readily.

Lissa_xyz

If you want your question to be directed to Daz and Daz only, then use the help > contact us and submit a ticket.

I could also go with the logic that decimating the character and using texture atlas to get all of the maps onto a single image (at least I think TA can do that) would be protecting it as you're not getting a full poly model, nor access to all of the high-res maps, but don't take my word for it.

ARealiti

Vaskania said:

...

I could also go with the logic that decimating the character and using texture atlas to get all of the maps onto a single image (at least I think TA can do that) would be protecting it as you're not getting a full poly model, nor access to all of the high-res maps, but don't take my word for it.

Thank you this is exactly what I would like DAZ to clarify. Or preferably remove the confusing clause.

Again, the clause they have put in is also not part of the Unity3D Asset Store EULA for the reasons stated...
http://unity3d.com/company/legal/as_terms

Also decimating Genesis would not be desirable, it's low enough already to use as the main character on most platforms, iOS included (not the clothing)

ARealiti

Vaskania said:

If you want your question to be directed to Daz and Daz only, then use the help > contact us and submit a ticket.

I could also go with the logic that decimating the character and using texture atlas to get all of the maps onto a single image (at least I think TA can do that) would be protecting it as you're not getting a full poly model, nor access to all of the high-res maps, but don't take my word for it.

Thanks again, yes I have submitted a ticket and been ignored for a month :)

Also, if DAZ had wanted to accept this resolution, they should have just gone with "Content used in the User’s application are not available to end users in their native formats" and left the rest about protection out. Notably, this is basically the Turbosquid license.

Cheers

Lissa_xyz

Can iOS use actual mesh? I thought most of the games/apps in iTunes were made with videos and 2d renders, which don't require the content license if that's what you're aiming for.

ARealiti

Vaskania said:

Can iOS use actual mesh? I thought most of the games/apps in iTunes were made with videos and 2d renders, which don't require the content license if that's what you're aiming for.

Yes, that's the thing technology on the mobile platforms is getting very good and we're close to being able to release DAZ Genesis in games on the iPad 3 onwards DAZ Genesis is a viable main character when placed in light well made mobile scenes like these...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3t02cmv6J4

With these types of environments and Genesis with reduced clothing (total budget 60k poly for main character) we are easily achieving good 30 fps frame rates with other low poly well made props and characters also in the scene. Genesis and DAZ models as main character are actually quite an attractive proposition, if it wasn't for the darn license.

Midnight_stories

Did you ever think of going 2D or 2.5D in unity there are so many great package 2D Tool Kit E.g. Just export the animation as PNG files. I guess this sounds like a stupid idea. Just though I'd throw it in. RawArt used to have a games license but not sure how that would work with genesis.

Artini

midnight_stories said:

Did you ever think of going 2D or 2.5D in unity there are so many great package 2D Tool Kit E.g. Just export the animation as PNG files. I guess this sounds like a stupid idea. Just though I'd throw it in. RawArt used to have a games license but not sure how that would work with genesis.

Using products bought at Daz3D in a 2D or 2.5D game is an option and the current licence allow it,
but having the possibility to use them as 3D would be great.
As far as I know all or most of the assets produced by RawArt are based on underlying characters/meshes from Daz3D,
so one still need the Daz3D game licence for their parts.

Lissa_xyz

Artini said:

midnight_stories said:

Did you ever think of going 2D or 2.5D in unity there are so many great package 2D Tool Kit E.g. Just export the animation as PNG files. I guess this sounds like a stupid idea. Just though I'd throw it in. RawArt used to have a games license but not sure how that would work with genesis.

Using products bought at Daz3D in a 2D or 2.5D game is an option and the current licence allow it,
but having the possibility to use them as 3D would be great.
As far as I know all or most of the assets produced by RawArt are based on underlying characters/meshes from Daz3D,
so one still need the Daz3D game licence for their parts.

Yes, you'd still need Daz's license in addition to Rawart's. Raw's license just gives you more options than just sticking to products labeled Daz3D as the vendor (the game license does not allow use of products that doesn't have Daz3D as the vendor).

icprncss

I doubt DAZ is going to remove the clause. Legal departments don't sit around and make up clauses just to make life miserable for the general public (except for maybe divorce lawyers and tax lawyers). The clause is there to protect DAZ's financial investment in the product they have purchased.

I would hope that you are aware of the fact that the Gaming License you purchased only covers those products that are DAZ Originals. It is not a blanket coverage that allows you to use anything you purchase here in the store. If you decide to use a PA product, you must purchase a license from that PA if they offer one. If you want to use a PA product and the PA does not offer a gaming license, you would have to contact the PA and see if they are willing to enter into a contract with you.

Even decimating and using Texture Atlas will not negate the clause.

If you don't like the terms of the license you agreed to bide by when you purchased it, why did you invest the money in it?

RawArt

I dont think that you should overthink the comment.
DAZ is not out looking for reasons to sue people. Just so long as you ake whatever methods that seem appropriate to protect the assets you are liscencing in the game, then that will cover the clause.
But that said...I (and no one here) can give you the clear legalities of it.
If you are publishing a game, you most likely already have your own lawyer to deal with legal issues, so just run it by him before you get too involved...and then discuss it with daz.
Posting in the forum will offer you no help whatsoever.

Rawn

hjake

Hi Ichu2004,

After reading the DAZ agreement, it would seem the intent was that a content user would build their own game engine or use a game engine the allows them to feed a proprietary formated model to the engine which would then process for rendering by the gpu or cpu.

For example if I'm "Bob's Your Uncle Games" and I want to use a DAZ model in my game "The Most Awesome Game Ever" then I would write a utility in C++ which would translate the DAZ model to my proprietary "BOB" format.

The game engine would be designed to read and translate the BOB format to process for rendering.
This way the stock models I am passing to the game are specially coded and not easily used outside the game engine.

An example of this might be the ".package" format used in the Sims 2.

EA Games allows you to use the model in the game but you are not legally allowed to decrypt or modify the model.

**************************

DAZ won't change the licensing because it puts the responsibility on the content user to make ever "reasonable" effort to protect their content and leaves a HUGE gaping hole as to what reasonable would be.

The other comments are correct that you can grab the mesh at render time but that doesn't mean you are relieved of responsibility to protect the mesh up until rendering.

DAZ_Brian

Thanks to everyone who posted trying to help out.

First of all, you would not be the first to use DAZ products in a game. There are dozens of developers using DAZ assets in their games.
Second, DAZ should have answered the ticket directly. Since that has not been done we will comment here.

But lets be clear...

DAZ is not putting a legal opinion here.
DAZ is not debating the legality of the Eula here.
DAZ is not planning any changes to the Eula.

The intent of the clause in question is to ensure that the developer does everything possible to protect the DAZ assets.

The ability of a third party to employ ripping tools to steal the assets notwithstanding, DAZ insists that the assets not be provided in their native format or in a format that is readily available to the end user. It is probably true that if a user has to employ ripping tools to steal the assets neither DAZ nor the game developer can completely prevent that. Nonetheless, the developer is responsible for not making the assets directly available to the end users. Having the assets encrypted or compiled into the app or game would meet this requirement of the eula in most cases.