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IBL Master - a bunch of technical questions

mwasielewski1990mwasielewski1990 Posts: 343
in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)

Sup guys,

Recently I've been experimenting with lighting when using the 3Delight renderer. I'm currently using UberEnviroment with AoA's lights bundle and so far i'm satisfied, but as my renders are getting better, I'm always looking for new ways to make them... even better.

After AoA's light pack, I purchased the new Reflective Radiance, but I'm experiencing MONSTROUS increase in render times. My last render (can't show it here because of the TOS) in full HD resolution took ~15 minutes to finish with AoA's lights and quite high quality settings on UE (occlusion with soft shadows) and the 3DL render settings itself. However, when I re-did the scene with Reflective Radiance, it seemed the render has completely stalled at 0%. 15 minutes of waiting yielded absolutely nothing, even a single pixel rendered, while my laptop got so hot I could boil eggs on it.

So my questions are:

1) how does IBL master impact render times? I know, there's info on the product page... but is it really faster than UE, for example in Bounce Light mode?

2) is this any good with indoor scenes? My scenes are typically indoors, but I always delete, for example a wall that's not in the camera viewport by turning its opacity to 0% to let UE light in. It works flawelessly in almost all situations. Does IBL Master gonna work the same way?

3) Where do I find compatible HDRI images to load onto the IBL sphere? Do I buy them somewhere, or is there any free resource that I don't know of? What resolution do they have to have?

4) Does this product work well with AoA's lights or standard DS lights? I use A LOT of spotlights for indoor scenes. I mostly work with naked figures, so I'm using these spotlights to bring all the details of the body to life.

5) are there any tutorials except for the one on DAZ page?

Comments

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited February 2019
    mwasielewski1990 said:

    Sup guys,

    Recently I've been experimenting with lighting when using the 3Delight renderer. I'm currently using UberEnviroment with AoA's lights bundle and so far i'm satisfied, but as my renders are getting better, I'm always looking for new ways to make them... even better.

    After AoA's light pack, I purchased the new Reflective Radiance, but I'm experiencing MONSTROUS increase in render times. My last render (can't show it here because of the TOS) in full HD resolution took ~15 minutes to finish with AoA's lights and quite high quality settings on UE (occlusion with soft shadows) and the 3DL render settings itself. However, when I re-did the scene with Reflective Radiance, it seemed the render has completely stalled at 0%. 15 minutes of waiting yielded absolutely nothing, even a single pixel rendered, while my laptop got so hot I could boil eggs on it.

    Yea the RR3 is slow, because it's based on the UE2 light. You can try increasing shadow rate both for the reflective and UE light, and render with progressive mode enabled. I haven't used it for a long time now, but IIRC there are quality presets included, that adjust the shadow rate for the lights. Try 32, but you might get grain, especially when using progressive mode.

    mwasielewski1990 said:

    So my questions are:

    1) how does IBL master impact render times? I know, there's info on the product page... but is it really faster than UE, for example in Bounce Light mode?

    Yup it's a lot faster, but you won't get true color bleed like with UE2 in bounce light mode. When using a high quality HDRI it will look great nevertheless.

    mwasielewski1990 said:

    2) is this any good with indoor scenes? My scenes are typically indoors, but I always delete, for example a wall that's not in the camera viewport by turning its opacity to 0% to let UE light in. It works flawelessly in almost all situations. Does IBL Master gonna work the same way?

    Well, IBLM is designed to be used with HDRIs, so if you find the right indoor HDR it will look good, but you probably need to tweak things like trace distance to make it work. IBLM works best with outdoor HDRIs IMO. Of course you can use it without any HDRI, but then you will get no direct light, only ambient occlusion, so additional lights will be required. And yes, if you hide a wall or the roof, an outdoor HDRI might work for what you're doing.

    mwasielewski1990 said:

    3) Where do I find compatible HDRI images to load onto the IBL sphere? Do I buy them somewhere, or is there any free resource that I don't know of? What resolution do they have to have?

    Check out HDRI Haven, lots of free high quality HDRIs with various resolutions both for outdoor and indoor use. If you only use the HDRI light and hide the IBLM environment sphere, you can get away with small size HDRIs, but if they will be visible I recommend using atleast 8k resolution.

    mwasielewski1990 said:

    4) Does this product work well with AoA's lights or standard DS lights? I use A LOT of spotlights for indoor scenes. I mostly work with naked figures, so I'm using these spotlights to bring all the details of the body to life.

    Yes that should work;) Just don't use the UE2 or AoA ambient light with IBLM, as you would double the ambient occlusion, which would look weird and make for long rendertimes.

    mwasielewski1990 said:

    5) are there any tutorials except for the one on DAZ page?

    I'm not aware of any other tutorials than the tips that have been shared in the commercial thread here: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/215066/released-ibl-master-image-based-lighting-control-for-both-renderers-a-new-ibl-for-3delight/p1. Maybe you should take the time to scroll through those pages?

    If you have more questions, post them there or one of the 3DL threads;)

    One great thing with IBLM compared to UE2 or AoA ambient light is that it renders hair and other stuff that uses transmaps very fast. And IMO the AO looks more accurate. Try it out, you can always return it if you find you won't need it.

     

    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • mwasielewski1990mwasielewski1990 Posts: 343
    Sven Dullah said:
    mwasielewski1990 said:

    Sup guys,

    Recently I've been experimenting with lighting when using the 3Delight renderer. I'm currently using UberEnviroment with AoA's lights bundle and so far i'm satisfied, but as my renders are getting better, I'm always looking for new ways to make them... even better.

    After AoA's light pack, I purchased the new Reflective Radiance, but I'm experiencing MONSTROUS increase in render times. My last render (can't show it here because of the TOS) in full HD resolution took ~15 minutes to finish with AoA's lights and quite high quality settings on UE (occlusion with soft shadows) and the 3DL render settings itself. However, when I re-did the scene with Reflective Radiance, it seemed the render has completely stalled at 0%. 15 minutes of waiting yielded absolutely nothing, even a single pixel rendered, while my laptop got so hot I could boil eggs on it.

    Yea the RR3 is slow, because it's based on the UE2 light. You can try increasing shadow rate both for the reflective and UE light, and render with progressive mode enabled. I haven't used it for a long time now, but IIRC there are quality presets included, that adjust the shadow rate for the lights. Try 32, but you might get grain, especially when using progressive mode.

    mwasielewski1990 said:

    So my questions are:

    1) how does IBL master impact render times? I know, there's info on the product page... but is it really faster than UE, for example in Bounce Light mode?

    Yup it's a lot faster, but you won't get true color bleed like with UE2 in bounce light mode. When using a high quality HDRI it will look great nevertheless.

    mwasielewski1990 said:

    2) is this any good with indoor scenes? My scenes are typically indoors, but I always delete, for example a wall that's not in the camera viewport by turning its opacity to 0% to let UE light in. It works flawelessly in almost all situations. Does IBL Master gonna work the same way?

    Well, IBLM is designed to be used with HDRIs, so if you find the right indoor HDR it will look good, but you probably need to tweak things like trace distance to make it work. IBLM works best with outdoor HDRIs IMO. Of course you can use it without any HDRI, but then you will get no direct light, only ambient occlusion, so additional lights will be required. And yes, if you hide a wall or the roof, an outdoor HDRI might work for what you're doing.

    mwasielewski1990 said:

    3) Where do I find compatible HDRI images to load onto the IBL sphere? Do I buy them somewhere, or is there any free resource that I don't know of? What resolution do they have to have?

    Check out HDRI Haven, lots of free high quality HDRIs with various resolutions both for outdoor and indoor use. If you only use the HDRI light and hide the IBLM environment sphere, you can get away with small size HDRIs, but if they will be visible I recommend using atleast 8k resolution.

    mwasielewski1990 said:

    4) Does this product work well with AoA's lights or standard DS lights? I use A LOT of spotlights for indoor scenes. I mostly work with naked figures, so I'm using these spotlights to bring all the details of the body to life.

    Yes that should work;) Just don't use the UE2 or AoA ambient light with IBLM, as you would double the ambient occlusion, which would look weird and make for long rendertimes.

    mwasielewski1990 said:

    5) are there any tutorials except for the one on DAZ page?

    I'm not aware of any other tutorials than the tips that have been shared in the commercial thread here: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/215066/released-ibl-master-image-based-lighting-control-for-both-renderers-a-new-ibl-for-3delight/p1. Maybe you should take the time to scroll through those pages?

    If you have more questions, post them there or one of the 3DL threads;)

    One great thing with IBLM compared to UE2 or AoA ambient light is that it renders hair and other stuff that uses transmaps very fast. And IMO the AO looks more accurate. Try it out, you can always return it if you find you won't need it.

     

    Big thanks for help, as always :)

    I'm really looking forward to test it with certain "heavier" hair models :)

  • mwasielewski1990mwasielewski1990 Posts: 343

    Hi, sorry for digging up this topic. I just purchased IBL Master on the -40% sale and it's magnificent, however I have one small issue. Is there a way to hide the HDR image so it's not visible in the render? I'm trying to do layered rendering, so i need to render a figure on a transparent background, but i still want IBL to be the main light source. I can't seem to find how to hide it in the documentation. Any help? :)

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,730

    Iray or 3Delight? In Iray you can turn Draw Dome off in Render settings' Editor tab.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    mwasielewski1990 said:

    Hi, sorry for digging up this topic. I just purchased IBL Master on the -40% sale and it's magnificent, however I have one small issue. Is there a way to hide the HDR image so it's not visible in the render? I'm trying to do layered rendering, so i need to render a figure on a transparent background, but i still want IBL to be the main light source. I can't seem to find how to hide it in the documentation. Any help? :)

    In 3DL, go to the scene pane and hide the IBLM environmental sphere using the eye icon.

  • mwasielewski1990mwasielewski1990 Posts: 343
    Sven Dullah said:
    mwasielewski1990 said:

    Hi, sorry for digging up this topic. I just purchased IBL Master on the -40% sale and it's magnificent, however I have one small issue. Is there a way to hide the HDR image so it's not visible in the render? I'm trying to do layered rendering, so i need to render a figure on a transparent background, but i still want IBL to be the main light source. I can't seem to find how to hide it in the documentation. Any help? :)

    In 3DL, go to the scene pane and hide the IBLM environmental sphere using the eye icon.

    Thanks buddy :) Thanks for all the advice, the HDR's from hdrihaven are so cool :)

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    mwasielewski1990 said:
    Sven Dullah said:
    mwasielewski1990 said:

    Hi, sorry for digging up this topic. I just purchased IBL Master on the -40% sale and it's magnificent, however I have one small issue. Is there a way to hide the HDR image so it's not visible in the render? I'm trying to do layered rendering, so i need to render a figure on a transparent background, but i still want IBL to be the main light source. I can't seem to find how to hide it in the documentation. Any help? :)

    In 3DL, go to the scene pane and hide the IBLM environmental sphere using the eye icon.

    Thanks buddy :) Thanks for all the advice, the HDR's from hdrihaven are so cool :)

    Most welcome:) Yea they are very nice indeed, if I were a rich man I'd support those guys...

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