Positioning props
Quite often, when I bring a prop (e.g. a weapon) into a scene, and it is not automatically placed into a hand, I have difficulty in positioning it. This is because there seems to be a centre of rotation that is outside the object (sometimes way outside). So, for instance, I want to rotate a dagger. Instead of rotating around its own axis, it travels in a large circle all around the scene. This makes what should be small tweaks incredibly laborious, because I may have the item positioned where i want it, but just want to adjust its angle slightly. When I do, it moves away from its position. Is there any way I can alter the centre of rotation?
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
Most props should have their origin inside the prop - what you can't count on is the object lining up with the axes, which can make positioning and rotating tricky. If the origin is way off check the item isn't a figure - if it is you may be able to position it by selecting the item's bone instead of the whole figure (though with luck it can fitted to the figure you want to use it with, avoiding the problem).
Another option is to go to Create>New null, place the null where you want the origin and parent the prop to the null, then use the null instead of the prop for placement. Yet another option is to use the Align pane to place the prop in roughly the right place. And you can also use the Joint editor tool to move the origin to where you need it.
When I run into that problem. Which seems a lot.. Just start over I put my problem prop in first in your case the knife and I build my scene around the knife.
Hi,
Richard - thanks, I'll try those. To illustrate the problem, I'm attaching a screen grab. The item is the dagger from the Roxana Yaroslavna for Genesis set. You can see how far away the origin is from the item.
dholm - that could work, but it would be tricky with something like a dagger, where not only the position but also the angle and the orientation need to be sorted - that's difficult without a figure to orientate it to.
I'd report that (open a support ticket), it doesn't seem like a good thing.
This can happen with items that are intended to be smartpropped - when it's saved that way sometimes the center jumps to the figure center instead of the original object's. It can be avoided by saving a centered version, then manually translating the centered version and re-saving smartpropped, but not everyone is going to do that. When they don't, you almost have to fix it in a modeler to get a proper center. You can try to edit the object centers in the bone tool and re-save. Sometimes that works.
Sorry, SickleYield, but I can't understand your post. What do you mewan by "the centred version", "manually translating", "re-saving smartpropped" and "fix in in a modeler" ? I also don't know how to edit the object centres in the bone tool. In the product concerned, the dagger does not seem to be smartpropped - presumably so that it can be placed in either hand or in the scannard.
There's a tutorial on my blog here that explores terms and how to set up a smartprop: http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/journal/Tutorial-Creating-A-Smartprop-With-DS4-5-Pro-367622372
Meanwhile, you're right. I checked, and the props for Roxana are set up to be positioned as smartprops, but they aren't parented. If you'd like to have them be smartprops, here's what you do.
Load Genesis.
Load the Gen-VL_Dagger. Right-click, change parent, and choose the left hand of Genesis and "parent in place" from the dialog that pops up.
Re-save to library using File--save as--assets--figure/prop assets. Make sure smart parenting is checked.
Now it will load parented to the hand if Genesis is selected when you double-click it. You can do the same with the sword and the right hand.
---
Editing in bone tool:
Select the dagger or sword.
Click on the bone tool. It looks like a bone with a stylized bandaid across it.
Create a tool tab, if you don't have one, using windows--panes(tabs)--tool. The tool tab shows the bone centers for the object and its rotation using "center point," "end point," and "orientation." You can see the center and end points in the scene as little red and green widgets. They probably overlap if the center and end points are the same. You can rotate and move them as much as you like, just make sure you use right-click and memorize selected node rigging before you save back to library.
This is not a good solution for pieces like the Roxana weapons because it would take so long to move and rotate everything to get it into a reasonable place. They were modeled to be placed in the hand, and there's not much to be done with props like that without the use of modeling software - the current "zero point" is hovering in the air and awkwardly rotated.
Thanks for taking the time to go through that. I'll give it a go.
FWIW, I very rarely noticed this before Genesis, but it's appeared time and again in Genesis outfit props like weapons held in one hand. The swords for Defiant and Dragon Lord, the bow and arrow for Elven Lord are particularly near-impossible to manoeuvre when they aren't parented to the hand, sword and dagger in Highlander, and so on.
Is there something about Genesis, or maybe it's the D|S4+ tools, that makes it more difficult to notice this has happened? I have few problems using pre-Genesis weapons on other figures, but anything with this offset problem needs extra work to fix if I want to use it with another figure (I keep hoping I'll get my head wrapped around the Joint Editor Tool one of these days, but it's slow going). It's not major, but it's weird and annoying.
That is one hundred percent an artist decision on export from modeling software. I do all of my smartprops in a centered, right and left version, and have since back when I was using Poser 6, so it is very possible. In fact, I'm working on a set now with a flashlight that also comes in a belt-parented version on top of these three.
I think the greater use of figures rather than parented props may be down to the way that morph transfer works - it's obviously more important with a hyper-morphable figure like Genesis than with the more staid Gen 4 figures.
I don't understand. Do you mean .duf figures instead of .pp2 props? Correct me if I'm wrong, you're definitely the expert, but it seems to me that DS4.5+ does not distinguish between "props" and "figures" in that format, the way Poser does with having separate .cr2 and .pp2; the only difference is in the rigging.
There were .pp2s with bad centers before the .dsa and .duf formats even existed. I still own some.
I meant figures, with a root and one or more bones, as opposed to props, with just a single node.
Aha, understood.
One wouldn't usually have a knife, gun, etc. conform to the hand still anyway, though. Or at least, I've not yet encountered one?
Aha, understood.
One wouldn't usually have a knife, gun, etc. conform to the hand still anyway, though. Or at least, I've not yet encountered one?
I thought I'd come across a few, but that may be a false impression.
I thought I'd come across a few, but that may be a false impression.
If you end up thinking of an example, I'd like to see it so I can pick the maker's brain for techniques. I can't imagine how that could possibly work, except maybe with an awful lot of work on rigidity.
The new standard of "everything's a .duf file" isn't helping. I don't see the type tags on thumbnails (major CMS failure) so I can't tell except by remembering what happened last time whether I'm about to load a full Genesis figure with a character applied, or a MAT, or morph settings. If the thumbnail or file name is vague enough, it might even be a prop or a "holding" pose.