Super evil(Milk it IX)
Rayman29
Posts: 0
This drip feed is very irritating to my bank account. I mean, why didn't D release G2 in hi-resolution.
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Because the tools for HD morphs were still in development when Genesis 2 Female(s) launched.
Rather weak.
Edit
That is to say, D could have realist G2 with a much higher polygon count.
Yes, stupid DAZ for not having time travel.
Vertex count.
Vertex count and poly count have little to do with the new HD morphs. The HD morphs are built on a subdivided mesh. Genesis and Genesis 2 are SubD meshes. That means their base mesh is a lowish res mesh. Subdivision algorithms are used to smooth the mesh and make it look more detailed... or at least smoother.
When Genesis 2 Female(s) was released DAZ Studio only had the ability to load morphs built from the base resolution mesh.
HD morphs take advantage of a new capability in DAZ Studio that allows it to import morphs built on a subdivided mesh. This means PA's can export the G2F or Genesis mesh at a higher subd level, sculpt at the higher level and then import the morph while still keeping all of the details.
When G2F released DAZ Studio did not have this ability. It was still very much in development.
Are you for real. So your saying, the mesh we released was low res, now here is the full version.
No, he's saying the mesh is a low resolution cage - it was at release, and it still is. The new HD morphs adjust the divided mesh, not the cage, and so allow more detailed morphs for the original mesh - the mesh is unchanged, and aside from any HD morphs set its behaviour is unchanged.
Oh come on, D could have released G2 with a higher vertex count. It makes no difference what cold be done at a later date.
Yes we could have. However, Subdivision is an industry standard. It is preferable to having a bulky high faceted mesh. It allows you to get great results without having to hog system resources. Rigging a low res mesh is easier and low res meshes bend much better.
One of the biggest problems with the Gen 4 figures was that they had too many polygons to be useful in large scenes. Most systems could handle 2 or 3 Gen 4 figures at the most. Now with lower poly count meshes and SubD you get the same smoothness of a Highres but at a quarter of the polygon count.
Yes it makes a difference. It's near impossible to weightmap something with a high polycount as HD gives, that's why Genesis and Genesis 2 are low poly.
All HD is, is the tech to allow the hi resolution detail to be added in at render time.
You're still dealing with the low poly mesh.
If you don't think it makes a difference, go ahead and turn the subdivisions up to 3 or 4 on genesis and try to put together a scene with several figures and props and see how far you get before your computer becomes unresponsive.
A higher vertex count would actually not work as well - SubD is applied after posing to give better end shapes, which wouldn't be possible with a higher resolution mesh (yes, G2F is a little higher resolution than Genesis but it's about the same level overall). Again, the base mesh has not changed - the HD morph is working on the divided mesh at render time (and being previewed by OpenSubDiv in the viewport). Its benefits aren't the detail it permits, which could have been achieved with displacement, but things like being uv-independent, being mixable with other morphs and displacement maps, and being more controlled (via the slider) than a displacement map spread across multiple surfaces.
Yes it makes a difference. It's near impossible to weightmap something with a high polycount as HD gives, that's why Genesis and Genesis 2 are low poly.
All HD is, is the tech to allow the hi resolution detail to be added in at render time.
You're still dealing with the low poly mesh.
If you don't think it makes a difference, go ahead and turn the subdivisions up to 3 or 4 on genesis and try to put together a scene with several figures and props and see how far you get before your computer becomes unresponsive.
I was referring to what future developments bring, not the current ability of vertex count/subdivision .
I was referring to what future developments bring, not the current ability of vertex count/subdivision .
This is the future development and what you should know and understand. Genesis is low poly for the a reason... high poly meshes are hard to weightmap and work with efficiently. Genesis 1 and 2 are low poly so it's easier to weightmap and bend, and DS adds the subdivision after you pose or move the figure. HD allows DAZ to keep the functionality of Genesis and add very detailed features at render time. So no, they couldn't just make it high poly to start with.
I disagree, it offers very little over displacement/normal maps, and offers no user edit option.
And as for weight mapping, are you saying that the weight map is now a morph feature.
No. I said that it is hard to weight map a high poly character.
What would be easier to manage, 18-20K polygons or over a million? That's about the difference between standard and HD.
I was referring to what future developments bring, not the current ability of vertex count/subdivision .
This is the future development and what you should know and understand. Genesis is low poly for the a reason... high poly meshes are hard to weightmap and work with efficiently. Genesis 1 and 2 are low poly so it's easier to weightmap and bend, and DS adds the subdivision after you pose or move the figure.
...so that explains why Genesis's ears appear to "wiggle" when say posing an arm, leg, or adjusting a morph slider. Always wondered about that.
In a sense then, HD sort of works like Garabaldi Hair in that the extra detail doesn't appear until the scene is rendered. Is that a a good analogy?
So another question, will we be seeing HD morphs for "normal" human characters, clothing, and hair as well?
This is the future development and what you should know and understand. Genesis is low poly for the a reason... high poly meshes are hard to weightmap and work with efficiently. Genesis 1 and 2 are low poly so it's easier to weightmap and bend, and DS adds the subdivision after you pose or move the figure.
...so that explains why Genesis's ears appear to "wiggle" when say posing an arm, leg, or adjusting a morph slider. Always wondered about that.
In a sense then, HD sort of works like Garabaldi Hair in that the extra detail doesn't appear until the scene is rendered. Is that a a good analogy?
So another question, will we be seeing HD morphs for "normal" human characters, clothing, and hair as well?
The ears wiggle because the viewport subdivision is set to 0 when you pose or bend a figure. One of the most noticeable places that the low res mesh is really low res is the ears. Turn the viewport Subdivision down to 0 and you will see how boxy the ears are. Turn that up to 1 and you get smooth looking ears. When you see the ears 'wiggling' what you are seeing is the viewport subdivision going from a higher level to the base level and then back again. You can turn this off so that the subdivision stays constant through posing but it uses more resources and you don't really get any benefit.
HD morphs can be previewed in the viewport if you turn the Subdivision level for a figure up. You can do that under Mesh Smoothing in the parameters pane. However as DAZ_cjones has pointed out the render subdivision and the viewport subdivsion are slightly different.
Will we see morphs for human figures and characters in HD? I sure hope so. We are currently very pleased with the rate of adoption for the HD morphs and they've only been available a few days.
Will we see HD morphs for clothing? That is a good question. A question to which I honestly don't have an answer. HD morphs can be loaded onto any SubD figure so it is technically possible from what I understand. It will be exciting to see where and how the new HD morph technology affects the content market.
...my hope with HD clothing is that it will appear to follow a character's form and pose better, have less distortion of textures when posed, as well as hopefully eliminating distortion of details and accessories like belts, sashes, buttons, and cuffs when posing (which seems to occur with some Genesis clothing content).
None of those are really things that HD morphs would affect. Remember that the base mesh hasn't changed, the HD morph applies to the final SubD mesh that is otherwise generated in the same way as usual. Better form-following requires custom morphs, or the creation of the new projection morphs so that the clothes are based on a version of the morph that (for example) fills in the cleavage to avoiud shrink-wrapping the breasts. Texture issues can be addressed only by alternative UVs, or procedurals shaders. Detail distortion can be addressed through weight-map adjustments or the use of JCMs to un-distort the shape (which would be unlikely to benefit from being HD morphs).