Advise rigging pilot helmet with front hose and back-wire assembly.

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

Hey Guys, this is my first post ever requesting help with regards to a personal project using Daz3d. I am a medium to advansed Daz3D user but for the life of me, I can't get this clothing prop to work properly. Please advise on how to rig a pilot helmet with the front hose and back-wire assembly to move properly. They need to follow the characters head motion while the base of the hose and wire assembly remains in place. I try creating multiple .obj in the motion range of the characters head to ERC Freeze the different morph movements but distortion occurs. I believe that there is a better way to do but I personally have not figured it out. Any help will be greatly appreciated. 

 

3WC

What if you weight map the bottom of hose to the chest and the top to the head, then smooth the weight maps between?

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

3WC said:

What if you weight map the bottom of hose to the chest and the top to the head, then smooth the weight maps between?

That might just work. The thing is that I have not been able to learn that part in Daz3D all that well. The documentation in that area has not been updated by Daz in a while and what they recommend in the manual does no matches the software. If you can please recommend me a tutorial that can show me the way it would be great and thank you. 

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

The only product in Daz3D that I know contains something similar is "Soldier for Genesis 2 Male". The Gas Mask tube properly runs down the font of the character and deforms in the correct manner if the character head moves. I guess he accomplishes this by ERC Freeze different .obj morphs or by weight maps like 3WC recommended. 

Richard Haseltine

How are you rigging now?

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

These are additional images just in case it helps anyone else to point me in the correct direction. I am already following the advice 3WC gave me regarding the weight maps to see if I am able to solve this issue.

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

Richard Haseltine said:

How are you rigging now?

Hi Richard, I have not tried adding bones to it because that would imply in Daz3D to deal with not only weight maps but also ERC Freeze in combination with the head moments. I am not that advance in the learning curve in that regard. I guess is mainly because the literature in Daz3D regarding weight maps is not up to date.  With that in mind if this is the way to go can you please point me in the correct direction. I would greatly appreciate if you know of a youtube video or a tutorial that I can buy in the Daz store.

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

BTW guys thank you so much for the comments this community seems to be awesome. Such a shame I never used it before.  

Richard Haseltine

So you are just running the Transfer Utility?

felis

I think Richard ment 'what have you currently done'. And my guess is you have used Transfer Utility, whereby you have copied all the bones in the figure into the object.

And if that is the case you can select the weigth brush tool, select Tool Settings and then see and change the weigth map for each bone.

And the suggestion is then to change the weigths to primarily the 2 controlling bones, potentially head and upper abdomen.

Doing weigth paint can migth seem a little hard untill you understand the tool. I am far from good at it, but can make it work as needed.

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

Richard Haseltine said:

So you are just running the Transfer Utility?

I did that and the helmet moves just fine along with the characters head but the hose and back wires abruptly get distorted and stretch at the point were the bone moves.

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

felis said:

I think Richard ment 'what have you currently done'. And my guess is you have used Transfer Utility, whereby you have copied all the bones in the figure into the object.

And if that is the case you can select the weigth brush tool, select Tool Settings and then see and change the weigth map for each bone.

And the suggestion is then to change the weigths to primarily the 2 controlling bones, potentially head and upper abdomen.

Doing weigth paint can migth seem a little hard untill you understand the tool. I am far from good at it, but can make it work as needed.

LOL thank you for the translation... Ill use the transfer utility again and see how I can figure out the weight mapping tools in Daz because in all due honesty their literature does not match their latest software. If you know of a good youtube video or tutorial in the store would be great. BTW Thank you :)

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

Richard Haseltine said:

So you are just running the Transfer Utility?

Pretty much Richard, so the bones copied are directly taken from the G8 figure and they do not take into account the hose or back wires. Let me know if that is the way to go to then figure out the weight mapping issue. If that is the case what is the best way to learn weight mapping in detail. Thanks

Richard Haseltine

I think you are going to need to add morphs to cope with the bends, or possibly turn the hose and wires into dForce items but of course that is fiddly (you will almost certainly need a dForce helper to keep the hose/wires round) and not readily exportable to other applications.

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

Richard Haseltine said:

I think you are going to need to add morphs to cope with the bends, or possibly turn the hose and wires into dForce items but of course that is fiddly (you will almost certainly need a dForce helper to keep the hose/wires round) and not readily exportable to other applications.

Thank you so much, Richard, for the help... I'll follow your advise since the head movements won't be too drastic.

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

Thank you guys for the help ill post tomorrow the results. :) 

SixDs

Don't necessarily rush out and do this without some of the experts chiming in, as I am merely brainstorming here, but what if you made the hose part of the suit, rather than the helmet, fitted (not "Fit To") to the helmet and parented to it? That way the suit end should remain fixed, but the other end would move with the helmet, no? Not sure whether there would be distortion or not.

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

SixDs said:

Don't necessarily rush out and do this without some of the experts chiming in, as I am merely brainstorming here, but what if you made the hose part of the suit, rather than the helmet, fitted (not "Fit To") to the helmet and parented to it? That way the suit end should remain fixed, but the other end would move with the helmet, no? Not sure whether there would be distortion or not.

Awsome suggestion :)... I tried that one but a similar deformation appears so I went on this route. I hope it makes sense to you. 1. I imported the Helmet .obj into Blender 2. Created individual vertex groups and assign them to the different parts of the helmet. Hose, Back Wires and Main Helmet. 3. I imported the .obj generated back into Daz3D by using the Figure Setup. 4. I Arrange the bones orientation and hierarchy in the Relationships tab in the Figure Setup tool. 5. I created new child bones has necessary and place them into the correct positions after I place the model in the 3D viewport... 6. I bound the bones to the Helmet but now I am a bit confused. I need to tell Daz3D that the Main Helmet is rigid but the hose and wires are not... After that, I assume the hose and wire will move correctly if I move the bounded bones accordingly. Then how do I in the name of ZEUS LOL do I save the Helmet has a wearable prop and add to that clothing prop the necessary ERC Freeze instructions link to the characters head movement... Any help there my friend will be greatly appreciated. 

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

Hey guys, so I went this route taking some points from each one of the users that reply to my post. I rig the Helmet by assigning different vertex groups to the model in blender.  I assume the hose and wire will move correctly if I move the bounded bones accordingly. How do I save the Helmet has a wearable prop and add to that clothing prop the necessary ERC Freeze instructions link to the characters head movement... Any help there will be greatly appreciated and in turn if I see a post that I am able to assist with I will be more than glad to help. Thanks...

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

I found this video in Youtube but it has no sound and the action the user is taking have been sped up. I believe this is what I need for the hose and wires to move properly while retaining the main Helmet rigidity.  if anyone else knows of a better tutorial along the lines of a Rope, Snake or whip I believe that will help me out to figure out the rest of this problem. :)

Richard Haseltine

The problem is that you want two ends to stay fixed relative to different bones while the sections in between need to move in a differnt way to the intermediate bones of the figure.

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

Richard Haseltine said:

The problem is that you want two ends to stay fixed relative to different bones while the sections in between need to move in a differnt way to the intermediate bones of the figure.

Well, I truly gave it my all and thank you guys for all the advise but now I know why no one tried this before it is too complicated to be accomplished properly. Open face helmet for the pilot it is lol.

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

Hey guys, I said I was going to give up but I decided to give a try again today. 01. I was able to bind the bones I created to the hose and back wires. 02. Then somehow I was able to assign in Daz3D weight map values to the geometry. 03 I believe I need a smoother transition from red to blue then to yellow to achieve the rubber movement I am looking for. 04  Back wires move perfectly as you can see in the image 04 but the front hose does not because I believe it needs more of the yellow color weight mapping value. Please, guys is there a tutorial or manual to truly understand rigging and other complex functions in Daz3D? At this point, I know it can work and I do not mind paying for the tutorial or the assistance from an expert. Thanks...

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

Now I know why Jesús Orellana keep its character costumes so simple in the animated short Rosa. 

3WC

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/userguide/creating_content/rigging/start

Have you looked at all these? Some are out of date, but the basic info is still good.

andya_b341b7c5f5

You can smooth weights using the Node Weight Map Brush tool.

• Activate the tool and select the Geometry Selection mode
• Select the geometry over which you want the weights smoothed.
• Right  click in the viewport and select Weight Editing-> Smooth Selected.
• Specify a smoothing factor and a number of iterations in the pop-up dialog and hit Accept.

Repeat until you get what you want or as close as possible.

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

Hey Guys today is Saturday and I have time to try this options out. Hopefully, it works if not lol new helmet for my pilots.

Syrus_Dante

andya_b341b7c5f5 said:

You can smooth weights using the Node Weight Map Brush tool.

• Activate the tool and select the Geometry Selection mode
• Select the geometry over which you want the weights smoothed.
• Right  click in the viewport and select Weight Editing-> Smooth Selected.
• Specify a smoothing factor and a number of iterations in the pop-up dialog and hit Accept.

Repeat until you get what you want or as close as possible.

Sorry to correct this otherwise good instruction but there is an important step missing about selecting all nodes/bones on that you want the maps to get smoothed.

• use the Geometry Editor to make a selection of the geometry you want the weights to be smoothed
• switch to the Node Weight Map Brush tool the geometry selection will still be active
• go to the Scene pane and select all segments / nodes of the hose of your helmet figure
• Right  click in the viewport and select Weight Editing-> Smooth Selected.
• Specify a smoothing factor and a number of iterations in the pop-up dialog and hit Accept.

Undo last step and repeat Smooth Selected until you get the right smoothing factor that you want or as close as possible.

 

Some time ago I made some youtube videos about rigging and stuff that you may find useful

Here I made a simple example rigging a primitive the video starts at the time I did the weight map smoothing with all segments selected.

DazStudio Rigging a Cylinder at minute 8

And there is the GeoGraft headpiece that shows more advanced rigging and using the Figure Setup pane.

• DazStudio Twi'lek for G3F ReDone 01 Face Groups
• DazStudio Twi'lek for G3F ReDone 02 Figure Setup
• DazStudio Twi'lek for G3F ReDone 03 Weight Map
• DazStudio Twi'lek for G8F 01 Editing ZarconDeeGrissom's Version

eblgraphics_cbf6f2d73d

Thank you Syrus_Dante for the additional step and tutorials I will try it over the weekend. With that said since I was not able to make the hose behave properly, I decided to implement a workaround and use a Flight Suit design that incorporates the hose to the neck of the character achieving a level of detail that I am happy about.