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Denoise renders and save a LOT of time! (Nvidia not Reqd)

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  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    Taoz said:
    kameneko said:

    Oh no, when I open the DnD For Nvidia Denoiser it tells me "Version Expired"...why did expire? xD

    And where can I find the newer version?

    Sorry, I accidently set it to expire a day too early. It was just a test version, and I don't want these to float around and cause confusion, so they have an expiration date.

    I'm always done with the next version, should have been out yesterday but I had some problems with my programming PC and had to reinstall it so everything got a bit delayed. You can download it here and try it if you want, it should work but hasn't been tested very well:

    https://taosoft.dk/software/freeware/dnden/updates/DnD_for_nVidia_%26_Intel_Denoisers_1.000a_NET4.zip

    Check one or both denoisers, it can do both at the same time (Intel has not not tested though but should work). If you check the Output Format box it will convert the file(s) to whatever format you choose, if unchecked it will save the files in their original format. Save button will save the selected format as default format.

    It will go online when you start it and check for updates, if there is an update it will notify you, otherwise not. There should be an update one of the next days.

    Thank you very much, your app has changed my workflow!! :D

    I don't have an Intel CPU, so no Intel denoiser I guess, even if they say it's best one!

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,941

    @Mattymanx @kameneko You're welcome! Glad to hear that it is working OK for you.

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379
    kameneko said:

     

    Thank you very much, your app has changed my workflow!! :D

    I don't have an Intel CPU, so no Intel denoiser I guess, even if they say it's best one!

    I have an AMD and the Intel denoiser works great!

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    edited April 2019
    Leonides02 said:
    kameneko said:

     

    Thank you very much, your app has changed my workflow!! :D

    I don't have an Intel CPU, so no Intel denoiser I guess, even if they say it's best one!

    I have an AMD and the Intel denoiser works great!

    Great, I'll try it out then, thank you! :D

    EDIT: Yes, it works, but it doesn a worst job than the Nvidia one! Maybe it needs an Intel CPU to work at its best?

    Post edited by LenioTG on
  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118

    A question guys: someone is talking about this Nvidia Denoiser integrated in Daz Beta...is that true? I can't find it! I only see the nex Post Denoiser, but it does a much worst job IMHO!

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,471

    The integrated one is the same Nvidia option here in this thread, but called by DS instead of the script.  The Intel one here is different...which many feel works better.

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    3dOutlaw said:

    The integrated one is the same Nvidia option here in this thread, but called by DS instead of the script.  The Intel one here is different...which many feel works better.

    And how is it called? Where can I find this setting?

  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,471

    You already found it...the post denoiser.  Further up this page Richard Pointed out how to integrate a script for denoising, but have not seen anyone try that 'cept me, and I failed.  :)

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    3dOutlaw said:

    You already found it...the post denoiser.  Further up this page Richard Pointed out how to integrate a script for denoising, but have not seen anyone try that 'cept me, and I failed.  :)

    Oh...then why does it work so badly? I've tried it many times, but it always gives me a "pasterly" look, while slowling down the rendering a lot!

    This one instead is very fast and it doesn't create any artifact, is it possible they have the same code?? :(

  • thd777thd777 Posts: 943
    edited April 2019
    kameneko said:
    3dOutlaw said:

    You already found it...the post denoiser.  Further up this page Richard Pointed out how to integrate a script for denoising, but have not seen anyone try that 'cept me, and I failed.  :)

    Oh...then why does it work so badly? I've tried it many times, but it always gives me a "pasterly" look, while slowling down the rendering a lot!

    This one instead is very fast and it doesn't create any artifact, is it possible they have the same code?? :(

    What you need to do is switch the Post denoiser to available but leave it off. Then start your render and render for the same number of interations as you do when you feed the render to the external denoiser. Then enable the post denopiser in the render window and boom you have the same result as if you use the external NVidia one. That way it also does not slow things down as far as I can tell.

    Ciao

    TD

     

    Edit to add: If you enable the post denoiser immediately, it starts by default denoising at 8 iray iterations and then keeps going which adds to the render time. It also looks like crap initally because there is not enough info for a good denoising. You can set the start interations to a value that is closewr to what you expect is suffcient. That way it is starting the denoise process later and it works quite well.

    Post edited by thd777 on
  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    thd777 said:
    kameneko said:
    3dOutlaw said:

    You already found it...the post denoiser.  Further up this page Richard Pointed out how to integrate a script for denoising, but have not seen anyone try that 'cept me, and I failed.  :)

    Oh...then why does it work so badly? I've tried it many times, but it always gives me a "pasterly" look, while slowling down the rendering a lot!

    This one instead is very fast and it doesn't create any artifact, is it possible they have the same code?? :(

    What you need to do is switch the Post denoiser to available but leave it off. Then start your render and render for the same number of interations as you do when you feed the render to the external denoiser. Then enable the post denopiser in the render window and boom you have the same result as if you use the external NVidia one. That way it also does not slow things down as far as I can tell.

    Ciao

    TD

     

    Edit to add: If you enable the post denoiser immediately, it starts by default denoising at 8 iray iterations and then keeps going which adds to the render time. It also looks like crap initally because there is not enough info for a good denoising. You can set the start interations to a value that is closewr to what you expect is suffcient. That way it is starting the denoise process later and it works quite well.

    Uhm, thank you! How do you modify render settings while rendering?

  • thd777thd777 Posts: 943
    edited April 2019
    kameneko said:
    thd777 said:
     

    Uhm, thank you! How do you modify render settings while rendering?

    In your render window on the left side are these two little lines on the frame. If you click those it opens the parameter pane and allows you to modify some of the render parameters including the quality settings and denoising as well as tonemapping. Note that you must set the Post Denoiser available to ON in the main render settings first. Otherwise the option does not show up in the render window.

    Ciao

    TD

    Post edited by thd777 on
  • 3dOutlaw3dOutlaw Posts: 2,471
    thd777 said:

     it starts by default denoising at 8 iray iterations and then keeps going which adds to the render time. It also looks like crap initally because there is not enough info for a good denoising. You can set the start interations to a value that is closewr to what you expect is suffcient. That way it is starting the denoise process later and it works quite well.

    Yep, this  :)

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    edited April 2019
    thd777 said:
    kameneko said:
    thd777 said:
     

    Uhm, thank you! How do you modify render settings while rendering?

    In your render window on the left side are these two little lines on the frame. If you click those it opens the parameter pane and allows you to modify some of the render parameters including the quality settings and denoising as well as tonemapping. Note that you must set the Post Denoiser available to ON in the main render settings first. Otherwise the option does not show up in the render window.

    Ciao

    TD

    Wow, I can't believe I've never noticed that!!! :O :O Thank you! :D

    Post edited by LenioTG on
  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379
    kameneko said:
    Leonides02 said:

    I have an AMD and the Intel denoiser works great!

     

    Great, I'll try it out then, thank you! :D

    EDIT: Yes, it works, but it doesn a worst job than the Nvidia one! Maybe it needs an Intel CPU to work at its best?

    Hm! To each, their own, I guess. I have used both the Nvidia denoiser and the Intel denoiser. To my eyes, Intel is clearly superior! 

  • SnowSultanSnowSultan Posts: 3,596

    I did two renders today with the built-in beta's denoiser, one to apply after 1750 iterations and one set to apply at the default of 8 iternations (and that one ran for 1750 iterations total). They looked identical in the end as far as I could tell, so I don't think it matters when you turn the denoiser on, as long as you let it run as long as you can for best results.

  • SpitSpit Posts: 2,342

    I found a render I did with my old i5 (circa 2011) back in 2015. I don't know the iterations but in the filename it shows I let it render for 45 minutes and it's 1600x 1200. Stonemanson's Ministry with AtmoCam for iray. Nothing else in the scene. It was terribly grainy (and I'm sure I stopped it b/c it was a test and I wasn't going to wait hours for it to finish). It had been saved as a .png file.

    Perfect fodder for the denoiser!

    I sicced the Intel denoiser at it and was absolutely gobsmacked by the result. Totally clean. This was .png to .png and I'm not showing b/c sizing and jpg will mask the miracle.

    This is a game changer.

     

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    Leonides02 said:
    kameneko said:
    Leonides02 said:

    I have an AMD and the Intel denoiser works great!

     

    Great, I'll try it out then, thank you! :D

    EDIT: Yes, it works, but it doesn a worst job than the Nvidia one! Maybe it needs an Intel CPU to work at its best?

    Hm! To each, their own, I guess. I have used both the Nvidia denoiser and the Intel denoiser. To my eyes, Intel is clearly superior! 

    It's not about our eyes I guess, it's probably built for Intel CPUs, and I have an AMD one! ^^

  • JabbaJabba Posts: 1,460

    I don't have any great insights to add, other than my compliments on such a very impressive and useful addition to the arsenal... epic stuff

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,946
    SnowSultan said:

    I did two renders today with the built-in beta's denoiser, one to apply after 1750 iterations and one set to apply at the default of 8 iternations (and that one ran for 1750 iterations total). They looked identical in the end as far as I could tell, so I don't think it matters when you turn the denoiser on, as long as you let it run as long as you can for best results.

    Yes, they should be the same - the idea is that by waiting to turn the denoiser on you are reducing the number of calculations needed, and so speeding the process.

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    Richard Haseltine said:
    SnowSultan said:

    I did two renders today with the built-in beta's denoiser, one to apply after 1750 iterations and one set to apply at the default of 8 iternations (and that one ran for 1750 iterations total). They looked identical in the end as far as I could tell, so I don't think it matters when you turn the denoiser on, as long as you let it run as long as you can for best results.

    Yes, they should be the same - the idea is that by waiting to turn the denoiser on you are reducing the number of calculations needed, and so speeding the process.

    Could it be possible to let Daz activate the Post Denoiser only at the last iteration, whenever it occurs?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,946
    kameneko said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    SnowSultan said:

    I did two renders today with the built-in beta's denoiser, one to apply after 1750 iterations and one set to apply at the default of 8 iternations (and that one ran for 1750 iterations total). They looked identical in the end as far as I could tell, so I don't think it matters when you turn the denoiser on, as long as you let it run as long as you can for best results.

    Yes, they should be the same - the idea is that by waiting to turn the denoiser on you are reducing the number of calculations needed, and so speeding the process.

    Could it be possible to let Daz activate the Post Denoiser only at the last iteration, whenever it occurs?

    I don't think so, no - though if it was enabled you could perhaps set the render to stop at 94% convergence, then up that to 95% (or whatever combination of values you like - in theory you should eb able to use lower values if you are denoising), turn on the denoiser, and resume the render.

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    Richard Haseltine said:
    kameneko said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    SnowSultan said:

    I did two renders today with the built-in beta's denoiser, one to apply after 1750 iterations and one set to apply at the default of 8 iternations (and that one ran for 1750 iterations total). They looked identical in the end as far as I could tell, so I don't think it matters when you turn the denoiser on, as long as you let it run as long as you can for best results.

    Yes, they should be the same - the idea is that by waiting to turn the denoiser on you are reducing the number of calculations needed, and so speeding the process.

    Could it be possible to let Daz activate the Post Denoiser only at the last iteration, whenever it occurs?

    I don't think so, no - though if it was enabled you could perhaps set the render to stop at 94% convergence, then up that to 95% (or whatever combination of values you like - in theory you should eb able to use lower values if you are denoising), turn on the denoiser, and resume the render.

    Thank you for your help!

    I guess that's not usually possible for me, since my GPU is pretty slow and so I render with the Batch Render when I'm not home! ^^

    It's okay, this external plugin works fine! :D

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,941
    kameneko said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    SnowSultan said:

    I did two renders today with the built-in beta's denoiser, one to apply after 1750 iterations and one set to apply at the default of 8 iternations (and that one ran for 1750 iterations total). They looked identical in the end as far as I could tell, so I don't think it matters when you turn the denoiser on, as long as you let it run as long as you can for best results.

    Yes, they should be the same - the idea is that by waiting to turn the denoiser on you are reducing the number of calculations needed, and so speeding the process.

    Could it be possible to let Daz activate the Post Denoiser only at the last iteration, whenever it occurs?

    When the render finishes, it creates a PNG copy (r.png) in the temp folder, it would be fairly simple to write an app that watches that folder and denoises the file as soon as it's been created.

    But why not just batch denoise everything when it's done?

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    Taoz said:
    kameneko said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    SnowSultan said:

    I did two renders today with the built-in beta's denoiser, one to apply after 1750 iterations and one set to apply at the default of 8 iternations (and that one ran for 1750 iterations total). They looked identical in the end as far as I could tell, so I don't think it matters when you turn the denoiser on, as long as you let it run as long as you can for best results.

    Yes, they should be the same - the idea is that by waiting to turn the denoiser on you are reducing the number of calculations needed, and so speeding the process.

    Could it be possible to let Daz activate the Post Denoiser only at the last iteration, whenever it occurs?

    When the render finishes, it creates a PNG copy (r.png) in the temp folder, it would be fairly simple to write an app that watches that folder and denoises the file as soon as it's been created.

    But why not just batch denoise everything when it's done?

    Indeed that's what I do! :D

    I was asking that to make Daz better for everyone! Every single collegue I told about this wasn't using any denoiser and his/her workflow improved a lot!

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,946
    Taoz said:
    kameneko said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    SnowSultan said:

    I did two renders today with the built-in beta's denoiser, one to apply after 1750 iterations and one set to apply at the default of 8 iternations (and that one ran for 1750 iterations total). They looked identical in the end as far as I could tell, so I don't think it matters when you turn the denoiser on, as long as you let it run as long as you can for best results.

    Yes, they should be the same - the idea is that by waiting to turn the denoiser on you are reducing the number of calculations needed, and so speeding the process.

    Could it be possible to let Daz activate the Post Denoiser only at the last iteration, whenever it occurs?

    When the render finishes, it creates a PNG copy (r.png) in the temp folder, it would be fairly simple to write an app that watches that folder and denoises the file as soon as it's been created.

    But why not just batch denoise everything when it's done?

    or use a post-render process, as discussed above, from within DS.

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Taoz said:
    kameneko said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    SnowSultan said:

    I did two renders today with the built-in beta's denoiser, one to apply after 1750 iterations and one set to apply at the default of 8 iternations (and that one ran for 1750 iterations total). They looked identical in the end as far as I could tell, so I don't think it matters when you turn the denoiser on, as long as you let it run as long as you can for best results.

    Yes, they should be the same - the idea is that by waiting to turn the denoiser on you are reducing the number of calculations needed, and so speeding the process.

    Could it be possible to let Daz activate the Post Denoiser only at the last iteration, whenever it occurs?

    When the render finishes, it creates a PNG copy (r.png) in the temp folder, it would be fairly simple to write an app that watches that folder and denoises the file as soon as it's been created.

    But why not just batch denoise everything when it's done?

    or use a post-render process, as discussed above, from within DS.

    I've tried to do that, but I'm not a programmer! ^^

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379
    kameneko said:

     

    It's not about our eyes I guess, it's probably built for Intel CPUs, and I have an AMD one! ^^

    But so do I! I just don't want people to assume it doesn't work (or doesn't work well) on Ryzen CPU's. smiley

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    Leonides02 said:
    kameneko said:

     

    It's not about our eyes I guess, it's probably built for Intel CPUs, and I have an AMD one! ^^

    But so do I! I just don't want people to assume it doesn't work (or doesn't work well) on Ryzen CPU's. smiley

    You're right: I've tried again on a less noisy picture, and it works fine!

    I don't know if it's better of worse, I'd say it's slightly less aggressive than the Nvidia one! :D

  • SotoSoto Posts: 1,440

    Taoz, thanks for the tif support!! :D

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