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Character Lighting Indoor

LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
in New Users

Hi everyone! :D

I've learned a little bit how to light indoor scenes, but I'm still not satisfied of the lightining of my characters in indoor scenes! Do you have any suggestion?

Since there is a nice sale going on, what are the best character indoor light sets?

I have a few of them, but they all change the dome and they don't go through walls, so they're useless in those situation, unless I want to render the character separately, but in that case you can tell it's two separate renders!

I've tried the three spotlights/point lights systems, but they have their flaws (and, mostly, I can't use them well enough, and they require a lot of time to set up for me xD)

Comments

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019

    You could try ghostlights. There's two Ghostlight sets in the store which are making using them qute simple, but you can also easily set them up yourself. I made a short tutorial that should still work well in the current version of DS 4.10.

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/1537206/#Comment_1537206

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    BeeMKay said:

    You could try ghostlights. There's two Ghostlight sets in the store which are making using them qute simple, but you can also easily set them up yourself. I made a short tutorial that should still work well in the current version of DS 4.10.

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/1537206/#Comment_1537206

    Thank you BeeMKay! :D

    I use ghost lights a lot too, either those products or I create them myself!

    I don't achieve good results when I use them to light my characters!

    So I was wondering if any indoor lighting set for characters existed, because all I'm finding require no ceiling/windows, which would be a step back!

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019
    edited March 2019

    Can you post an example of your light's surface settings, the environment settings and your render result? I'm doing a lot of indoor renders and usually, adding a handful of ghostlights in combination with spotlights do the trick for me.

    As for lighting sets, you can try https://www.daz3d.com/architectural-lighting-rig-for-iray

    This one is lit entirely by Ghostlights and Spots:

    Post edited by BeeMKay on
  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    edited March 2019

    You're so nice, thank you! :D

    I don't usually play around with environment settings too much! I just set Tone Mapping to 12 for indoor scenes.

    Here I'm using a dome and some ghost lights (stronger ones on the windows, weaker ones on the ceiling and on one wall).

    In the first example (the woman on the bed) I've used three point lights. I'm pretty satisfied with the result, but it requires some trials and errors and the most "shiny" parts of her eyes and lips show a bright dot I don't like.

    In the second example I've used the same technique, but the result is awful: she's so dark! I've tried setting higher lumens for the point lights, but then it looks artificial! I've tried multiple times to use ghost lights again on her, but then she looks "flat".

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    Post edited by LenioTG on
  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019
    edited March 2019

    Unfortunately, with lights, there's no fast solutions when you go outside the realms of pin-up presets. The ghost lights usually just help to lighten up the environment, but their light is flat and has no shadows. If you want definition and shadows, spot lights are usually a good choice, but it need practice and experimentation to see how they work. There are as couple of great webinars in the store that give you a good idea on how to light things.

    If you use spotlights instead of point lights, you'll get better results. Point lights have a very soft, round light similar to ghostlights.

    The light in your image on the lips is the reflection of your pointlight. In nature, light would also reflect on shiny surfaces and leave a bright spot.

    EDIT:

    So, here are the comparisions - if you use just a plain pointlight at 7000lms:

    Compared to a spotlight of the same strength in the same position:

    As you can see, the spotlight gives a much sharper contrasted light compared to the pointlight. Also keep in mind that light in Iray behaves like regular light, so it decays over distance.

    This is a simple test setup for 3 ghostlights and the upcoming renders with spot- and pointlights.

    For the first two images, the point and spotlight are at the exact same position as before. Take note how the ghostlights contribute some gentle ambient light to the scene.

    Ghostlights and pointlight:

    Ghostlights and spotlight:

    Now, I've thrown in 6 spotlights instead of one; as you can see, I'm using various angles from the front and the back of the character.

    The effects of the diffferent light combinations are more obvious when you crank up the strength of the light a bit from the 7000lms.

    Finally, the skin makes a huge difference when it comes to flatness or not. The above three renders were done using the default G3F-skin with Altern8-Skin settings applied.

    Here's the same 6-spotlight setting with the regular shaders for the skin.

    Notice how much flatter the skin looks with the default skin shader settings? It's worth tinkering around with the surface settings as well to get the best combination out of lights and character.

    Oh, and on a general note, the plain spotlights rendered fastest. Using ghostlights in combination with other lights sometimes causes a lot of graininess that takes a while to clear up.

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    Post edited by BeeMKay on
  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    BeeMKay said:

    Unfortunately, with lights, there's no fast solutions when you go outside the realms of pin-up presets. The ghost lights usually just help to lighten up the environment, but their light is flat and has no shadows. If you want definition and shadows, spot lights are usually a good choice, but it need practice and experimentation to see how they work. There are as couple of great webinars in the store that give you a good idea on how to light things.

    If you use spotlights instead of point lights, you'll get better results. Point lights have a very soft, round light similar to ghostlights.

    The light in your image on the lips is the reflection of your pointlight. In nature, light would also reflect on shiny surfaces and leave a bright spot.

    EDIT:

    So, here are the comparisions - if you use just a plain pointlight at 7000lms:

    Compared to a spotlight of the same strength in the same position:

    As you can see, the spotlight gives a much sharper contrasted light compared to the pointlight. Also keep in mind that light in Iray behaves like regular light, so it decays over distance.

    This is a simple test setup for 3 ghostlights and the upcoming renders with spot- and pointlights.

    For the first two images, the point and spotlight are at the exact same position as before. Take note how the ghostlights contribute some gentle ambient light to the scene.

    Ghostlights and pointlight:

    Ghostlights and spotlight:

    Now, I've thrown in 6 spotlights instead of one; as you can see, I'm using various angles from the front and the back of the character.

    The effects of the diffferent light combinations are more obvious when you crank up the strength of the light a bit from the 7000lms.

    Finally, the skin makes a huge difference when it comes to flatness or not. The above three renders were done using the default G3F-skin with Altern8-Skin settings applied.

    Here's the same 6-spotlight setting with the regular shaders for the skin.

    Notice how much flatter the skin looks with the default skin shader settings? It's worth tinkering around with the surface settings as well to get the best combination out of lights and character.

    Oh, and on a general note, the plain spotlights rendered fastest. Using ghostlights in combination with other lights sometimes causes a lot of graininess that takes a while to clear up.

    Thank you for all the hassle, appreciated! :D

    I've experimented with spotlights too, but I didn't get nice results...I guess I'll continue experimenting!

    I've noticed you're making comics too, so you know how much better it would be to have a preset character lighting solution! xD

    Maybe someone will realize it one day!

    I've experimented with the Iridescent light set I've bought today, and it's so good! Too bad you can't use it in an indoor scene! :'(

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  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479

    This old tutorial from Dreamlight has some good information on lighting in general, even though it's geared toward 3Delight renders. (It's part of a series, all free, to help people get the most out of Daz Studio. Not sure which verion was current when they were released.) If you don't do well with video, though, it's probably not the tutorial you want.

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    L'Adair said:

    This old tutorial from Dreamlight has some good information on lighting in general, even though it's geared toward 3Delight renders. (It's part of a series, all free, to help people get the most out of Daz Studio. Not sure which verion was current when they were released.) If you don't do well with video, though, it's probably not the tutorial you want.

    Hi! :D
    If you think I could improve comparing to my current renders I'll watch it! :)

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479

    Looking at your renders, (you say you just increased the light by setting something to 12; Exposure Value, I suspect,) I think getting a handle on the theory of how to light things wouldn't hurt. It helped me when I was first getting started, but we didn't have Iray yet.

    In fact, just about any photography lighting information will be helpful. Here's one article I just found using a Google Search: 6 Techniques.

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019

    L'Aidair's absolutely right about having to learn the basics of lights. There's really no quickfix solutions, because every room is different, and needs different lights to capture different moods. I needed several months to learn the very basics when I started out in 3Delight, had to relearn some parts when Iray came around, but I'm still learning how to use lights effectively even now.

    Dreamlight's tutorials is very good, as it explains the basics about light placement. The guy is/was a professional photographer and in film, so he knows his lights.

    If you are willing to spend some cash, I can recommend these two by DA and Esha (went to the live webinar):

    She also explains the Iray lights in the portraits. It's important to understand what sliders to use in the parameters, or the surface settings.

    That's why I asked about your light parameters. For example, if you are using "intensity" settings to control light strength, that will not work, because these are for 3Delight. The same is true for other settings. 3Delight allows you a lot more control than Iray over what your beam of light is doing.

    I also very strongly reccomend the new user challenge section: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/categories/new-user-contests-and-events  especially this thread: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/306616/february-2019-daz3d-new-user-challenge-lighting#latest

    It has a lot of resources. Also, you can participate in the monthly events and get practical help and suggestions on your images. Also, there's a regular, free Visual Narrative Workshop at Digital Arts: https://digitalartlive.com/ . The March one was just a few days ago: http://digitalartlive.com/event/visual-narratives-workshop-share-and-promote-your-artwork-and-techniques-3/

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    L'Adair said:

    Looking at your renders, (you say you just increased the light by setting something to 12; Exposure Value, I suspect,) I think getting a handle on the theory of how to light things wouldn't hurt. It helped me when I was first getting started, but we didn't have Iray yet.

    In fact, just about any photography lighting information will be helpful. Here's one article I just found using a Google Search: 6 Techniques.

    Thank you, then I'll watch the tutorial and read the article! I don't have photography knowledge! :D

    Are you JGreenless? If so, I love your shaders, I have a ton of them and I use them all the time!!! :D

    BeeMKay said:

    L'Aidair's absolutely right about having to learn the basics of lights. There's really no quickfix solutions, because every room is different, and needs different lights to capture different moods. I needed several months to learn the very basics when I started out in 3Delight, had to relearn some parts when Iray came around, but I'm still learning how to use lights effectively even now.

    Dreamlight's tutorials is very good, as it explains the basics about light placement. The guy is/was a professional photographer and in film, so he knows his lights.

    If you are willing to spend some cash, I can recommend these two by DA and Esha (went to the live webinar):

    She also explains the Iray lights in the portraits. It's important to understand what sliders to use in the parameters, or the surface settings.

    That's why I asked about your light parameters. For example, if you are using "intensity" settings to control light strength, that will not work, because these are for 3Delight. The same is true for other settings. 3Delight allows you a lot more control than Iray over what your beam of light is doing.

    I also very strongly reccomend the new user challenge section: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/categories/new-user-contests-and-events  especially this thread: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/306616/february-2019-daz3d-new-user-challenge-lighting#latest

    It has a lot of resources. Also, you can participate in the monthly events and get practical help and suggestions on your images. Also, there's a regular, free Visual Narrative Workshop at Digital Arts: https://digitalartlive.com/ . The March one was just a few days ago: http://digitalartlive.com/event/visual-narratives-workshop-share-and-promote-your-artwork-and-techniques-3/

    Oh, there's a lot of professional people here, I'm doing this just to have fun! xD

    I don't doubt DA and Esha's tutorials are worth it, but 30$ each is a little bit expensive for me right now! ^^

    I've never used 3Delight, when I started in 2017 Gen8 and Iray were already out!

    I've never ever opened the New User Contest, maybe I'll give it a go, it's hard to get some honest feebacks from professionals, thanks! :D

    I don't think I'm in the target of DigitalArtLive, since I'm neither realizing Sci-Fi or Fantasy renders right now!

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019

    It's not so much about being a professional (I'm just an amaterur, too), but being able to get a rendering result you are comfortable with. That's why (at least to me) the basics are so important, even if there's no instant gratification.

    As for DA... er... You are aware that they are teaching technique, not genre? The techniques I need for a sciFi or fantasy render is the same that I need for a present day render, for example. You just have different props inside the scene.

    Maybe you're letting yourself being led astray by a simple advertisement image? Like, the visual narrrative webinar almost always has some cool image from all sorts of genres in the ad, but we present our own things there, ranging from pics for a folding postcard sale, over someone who's gathering the courage to publish their work, to beginners like myself, and people who are doing it for a long time and are selling artists...  But yeah, there are many sources for learning, and it's best to chose one you are comfortable with.

    In any case, I hope that the links and images will give you an idea and help you experiment. Maybe you post the progress here? I'd be curious.smiley

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    BeeMKay said:

    It's not so much about being a professional (I'm just an amaterur, too), but being able to get a rendering result you are comfortable with. That's why (at least to me) the basics are so important, even if there's no instant gratification.

    As for DA... er... You are aware that they are teaching technique, not genre? The techniques I need for a sciFi or fantasy render is the same that I need for a present day render, for example. You just have different props inside the scene.

    Maybe you're letting yourself being led astray by a simple advertisement image? Like, the visual narrrative webinar almost always has some cool image from all sorts of genres in the ad, but we present our own things there, ranging from pics for a folding postcard sale, over someone who's gathering the courage to publish their work, to beginners like myself, and people who are doing it for a long time and are selling artists...  But yeah, there are many sources for learning, and it's best to chose one you are comfortable with.

    In any case, I hope that the links and images will give you an idea and help you experiment. Maybe you post the progress here? I'd be curious.smiley

    Cool, thank you for letting me know about digitalartlive then, I'll check it out! :D

    I honestly don't know where this thing is going...I just have fun, and in everything I do I always try to get better little by little!
    Luckily I've never been ashamed to publish anything xD At least people get in touch with you watching you improving! They know I'll always be one of them, and that I'm not a pro by any means! ^^
    This won't be my job...I'm already studying a lot to have another one! :D

    Today I've rendered this about Game of Thrones! I've retextured and adjusted everything. But the lights are premade xD

    I really like this light set, I'll observe how it manages to give such results!

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  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    kameneko said:
    L'Adair said:

    Looking at your renders, (you say you just increased the light by setting something to 12; Exposure Value, I suspect,) I think getting a handle on the theory of how to light things wouldn't hurt. It helped me when I was first getting started, but we didn't have Iray yet.

    In fact, just about any photography lighting information will be helpful. Here's one article I just found using a Google Search: 6 Techniques.

    Thank you, then I'll watch the tutorial and read the article! I don't have photography knowledge! :D

    Are you JGreenless? If so, I love your shaders, I have a ton of them and I use them all the time!!! :D

    No, I'm not Jen, just a big fan of hers. @JGreenlees is a PA and one of the folks making the Platinum Plus Club work for us.

    I don't think anyone's taken a poll to see what percentage of DS users are "professionals" and what percentage are hobbiest, but in the forums, at least, I'm leaning toward more hobbiests than Pros.

    I myself am a hobbiest. I've been fascinated with computer graphics since before 3D was available to the masses. (I have an old CD-ROM in the other room with Ray Dream 4. Probably museum-worthy.) But it wasn't until 2014 that I finally bought a computer robust enough to run a 3D program. I had picked up Daz Studio for free when it was still version 3.0, but wasn't able to run it. So when I decided to look into it again, Daz was the first place I looked. V4.6 was also free, and down the rabbit hole I went. (I haven't emerged yet!)

    As for tutorials and such, free or otherwise, it's really about how you learn. I'm not a fan of the webinar as tutorial format. I find them distracting, with the anecdotes and off-topic segues that tend to plague the format. But many other people find the more straight forward, no fluff approach I prefer to be overwhelming or intimidating. You can get a taste for different formats and styles by searching youtube for info on how to do stuff in Daz Studio. And those videos won't cost you a thing.

    As you get further along in your creative journey, you'll know when it's time to invest in a tutorial. And if you have a little patience, you'll get that $30 tutorial for $15, or less.

    In the meantime, keep asking questions in the forums, and most of the time, someone with the right knowledge will help you.

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    L'Adair said:

    No, I'm not Jen, just a big fan of hers. @JGreenlees is a PA and one of the folks making the Platinum Plus Club work for us.

    I don't think anyone's taken a poll to see what percentage of DS users are "professionals" and what percentage are hobbiest, but in the forums, at least, I'm leaning toward more hobbiests than Pros.

    I myself am a hobbiest. I've been fascinated with computer graphics since before 3D was available to the masses. (I have an old CD-ROM in the other room with Ray Dream 4. Probably museum-worthy.) But it wasn't until 2014 that I finally bought a computer robust enough to run a 3D program. I had picked up Daz Studio for free when it was still version 3.0, but wasn't able to run it. So when I decided to look into it again, Daz was the first place I looked. V4.6 was also free, and down the rabbit hole I went. (I haven't emerged yet!)

    As for tutorials and such, free or otherwise, it's really about how you learn. I'm not a fan of the webinar as tutorial format. I find them distracting, with the anecdotes and off-topic segues that tend to plague the format. But many other people find the more straight forward, no fluff approach I prefer to be overwhelming or intimidating. You can get a taste for different formats and styles by searching youtube for info on how to do stuff in Daz Studio. And those videos won't cost you a thing.

    As you get further along in your creative journey, you'll know when it's time to invest in a tutorial. And if you have a little patience, you'll get that $30 tutorial for $15, or less.

    In the meantime, keep asking questions in the forums, and most of the time, someone with the right knowledge will help you.

    For "professionals" I meant people who are very good at this, not necessarely who's doing this for a living! :D

    I've rendered for 2 months back in 2017, then I've taken a gap year and now I'm back!

    The forum is very useful indeed! I also watch a lot of tutorials on YouTube, but they're often unedited and so very long and boring, or outdated! (By the way, I have a tutorial youtube channel myself xD I'm currently working on one around the complete workflow of a series of comic pages! I have 5 hours of footage, but I want to trim it into something like 20 minutes).

    Then send my compliments to JGreenlees, she's great! :D I have something like 10 products from hers xD

  • dougjdougj Posts: 92
    edited March 2019

    I just picked up the "iRadiance - Light Probe HDR Lighting for Iray - Expansion 4" HDR lighting presets. I've only used them on one indoor scene so far, but the results are excellent and they're very easy to use. On sale now for $5.99 if you are a Platinum Club member.

    https://www.daz3d.com/iradiance--light-probe-hdr-lighting-for-iray--expansion-4

    Post edited by dougj on
  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    dougj said:

    I just picked up the "iRadiance - Light Probe HDR Lighting for Iray - Expansion 4" HDR lighting presets. I've only used them on one indoor scene so far, but the results are excellent and they're very easy to use. On sale now for $5.99 if you are a Platinum Club member.

    https://www.daz3d.com/iradiance--light-probe-hdr-lighting-for-iray--expansion-4

    Thank you, I've bought it!

    Actually, I was able to take it for 2.69!

    I've also taken a black and white set and another one with multiple lights...now I have 7 lights set, I hope I'll get something done out of that!

  • dougjdougj Posts: 92
    kameneko said:
    dougj said:

    I just picked up the "iRadiance - Light Probe HDR Lighting for Iray - Expansion 4" HDR lighting presets. I've only used them on one indoor scene so far, but the results are excellent and they're very easy to use. On sale now for $5.99 if you are a Platinum Club member.

    https://www.daz3d.com/iradiance--light-probe-hdr-lighting-for-iray--expansion-4

    Thank you, I've bought it!

    Actually, I was able to take it for 2.69!

    I've also taken a black and white set and another one with multiple lights...now I have 7 lights set, I hope I'll get something done out of that!

    You're welcome.

    All of those light sets should keep you busy for a while.

  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118

    If someone is interested, I found a way that keeps me satisfied at least for now!

    Room lighting with Ghost Lights Kit: https://www.daz3d.com/iray-ghost-light-kit

    Then I put a Rim Light Kit (https://www.daz3d.com/rim-light-rig-iray) around the character! The default lumen are definitely too high, so I set them to 1000 for each plane (I use the default plane, not the spotlights, because the shadows are too harsh and unnatural), and I save it all as a subscene set. This way it's fast to set (it's not practical to create and adjust many spotlights/pointlights for each scene) and it gives nice results I guess!

    By the way I've seen Dreamlight tutorial, but sadly they were all things I understood on my own during these months! :'(

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,744
    edited April 2019

    This video on Iray Render Settings also has some really good tips about how to improve lighting issues indoors. Particularly aobut how to make them render faster. :)

    Post edited by JonnyRay on
  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    JonnyRay said:

    This video on Iray Render Settings also has some really good tips about how to improve lighting issues indoors. Particularly aobut how to make them render faster. :)

    Thank you, I had seen it! :D

    I have no problems anymore lighting indoor scenes, this question was more about the characters in indoor scenes! :D

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