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32 bits apps on 64 bits OS

NaviNavi Posts: 452
edited December 1969 in The Commons

Hello,

I'm about to get a 64 bits computer in a few days, with Windows 7, but I was wondering how Poser (and Daz) would behave on this one, in comparison with the previous computer which was 32 bits.

I plan to install Daz, no worries here it's 64 bits ready (kudos to Daz for that !), but I'm unable to tell how much RAM will Poser 9 be able to use : Will Poser be limited to 4gb for both Poser.exe and Firefly.exe (my Poser is 9, not Pro, so 32 bits only - shame on SmithMicro for that :roll: , 64 bits ability should never has been a 'quality feature' separating pro/non-pro), or will each of these 2 processes be able to use 4 gb ?

Thanks in advance,

Navi

Comments

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 14,263
    edited December 1969

    Poser will only be able to use 4GB for the 32bit version

  • NaviNavi Posts: 452
    edited December 1969

    You mean both executables (Poser and Firefly) will be limited to 4 Gb total, not 4 Gb for each of them ?

  • TheWheelManTheWheelMan Posts: 1,014
    edited December 1969

    The 32-bit, non-pro option is the less expensive option to let people who can't afford the Pro versions or don't need them to buy Poser. Shame on them for making their software accessible to a wider range of people? I don't think so. Remember, most people are still using 32-bit OS. Poser Pro comes with both versions, but it's the version more likely to need the increased power.

    I'm pretty sure that a 32-bit program is still limited to the memory it can access, even if the OS is 64-bit.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 14,263
    edited December 1969

    navibass said:
    You mean both executables (Poser and Firefly) will be limited to 4 Gb total, not 4 Gb for each of them ?

    4GB all together

  • NaviNavi Posts: 452
    edited December 1969

    TheWheelMan said:
    The 32-bit, non-pro option is the less expensive option to let people who can't afford the Pro versions or don't need them to buy Poser. Shame on them for making their software accessible to a wider range of people? I don't think so. Remember, most people are still using 32-bit OS. Poser Pro comes with both versions, but it's the version more likely to need the increased power.

    I'm pretty sure that a 32-bit program is still limited to the memory it can access, even if the OS is 64-bit.

    Sure I know, but I don't imagine antivirus vendors, or anyother software kind, like defragmenters etc, selling cheap 32 bits, and more expensive 64 bits ready versions of their programs, that's why I made this remark in my post ;) . Of course Poser Pro is supposed to have much more features than normal version, but imho the 64 bits ability shouldn't be one of them.

  • NaviNavi Posts: 452
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    navibass said:
    You mean both executables (Poser and Firefly) will be limited to 4 Gb total, not 4 Gb for each of them ?

    4GB all together

    Dang, exactly what I didn't want to hear, but thank you for letting me know ;) . Gonna learn Daz in the next few days then.

  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 1,303
    edited December 1969

    Sorry but in fact, any 32 bit application will only address up to 2 Gb RAM on a 64 bit System. If you want them to be able to address up to 4Gb you can try to patch your 32 bit application to be Large Address Aware. No warranty though on the stability of the software after that, but it seems to work for people doing it. Some people also reported Hexagon to be less unstable after that so it may be a good idea to do it. Just backup your old exe if you do so

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Takeo.Kensei said:
    Sorry but in fact, any 32 bit application will only address up to 2 Gb RAM on a 64 bit System. If you want them to be able to address up to 4Gb you can try to patch your 32 bit application to be Large Address Aware. No warranty though on the stability of the software after that, but it seems to work for people doing it. Some people also reported Hexagon to be less unstable after that so it may be a good idea to do it. Just backup your old exe if you do so

    From what I've read, the newer versions of Windows are large address aware without the patch.

    Macs haven't had the need for a patch to be large address aware for years.

  • Takeo.KenseiTakeo.Kensei Posts: 1,303
    edited December 1969

    evilproducer said:
    Takeo.Kensei said:
    Sorry but in fact, any 32 bit application will only address up to 2 Gb RAM on a 64 bit System. If you want them to be able to address up to 4Gb you can try to patch your 32 bit application to be Large Address Aware. No warranty though on the stability of the software after that, but it seems to work for people doing it. Some people also reported Hexagon to be less unstable after that so it may be a good idea to do it. Just backup your old exe if you do so

    From what I've read, the newer versions of Windows are large address aware without the patch.

    Macs haven't had the need for a patch to be large address aware for years.

    It's not x64 Windows the problem. It is the software implementation. By default, 32 bit windows applications are only addressing 2Gigs of RAM and the LAA flag is not used at compilation as 32 bit Windows only allow 2Gb per process in standard configuration. I don't know if Poser 9 was compiled with that flag on but I doubt it is the case.That also explains why many 32 bit applications crash when their memory consumption exceed 2Go. This is the case for DS 32 bit as far as I know.

    I don't know how it goes for Mac concerning memory management of applications. BSD/Unix/Linux have quite a different architecture.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    edited November 2013

    I agree with that. Most Bryce users do use the LAA system to make it easier to work on more populated scenes, as Bryce is still only 32bit at this moment in time. It will still only use 3.something gb of ram, not even quite 4gb.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,418
    edited December 1969

    I'm not certain, but I think Poser has been LAA for a while.

  • ruekakaruekaka Posts: 346
    edited December 1969

    Just in case some detailed information:
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/de-de/library/aa366778.aspx
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/de-de/library/bb613473.aspx

  • NaviNavi Posts: 452
    edited December 1969

    Thank you all for the additional infos :) , and yes Takeo.Kensei, I was specially interested in that LAA trick, although I still didn't figure out how people do that for Poser 32 on 64 systems (the small utility on Techpowerup seems to be for 32 bits Windows only).

    If Firefly.exe file needs to be edited that sounds risky, but I'll see.

    And I've stumbled upon the 1st link you've posted, ruekaka, it left me wondering when I found it, because it seems to tell A 32 bit app is allocated 4 gigs by default in Windows 64.

    I guess I'll just try to load a very heavy scene in Poser when the PC is ready (I've got many buildings and landscape props I couldn't use, in the last 2 years), to see what's actually happening.

    Thanks again,

    Navi

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    I guess I was remembering it wrong or making assumptions that it was an OS thing that could be corrected.

    It makes sense because I know there were a lot of happy Windows users when Carrara 7 came out (or was that 7.2) because it was large address aware. I know us Mac users didn't have to worry about it. Some of us had 64 bit systems and more than 4GB of RAM, so Carrara could access the full 4GB or RAM a 32 bit application is supposed to be able to use. In theory at any rate. ;-) My scenes never pushed Carrara quite that far. I did get it up to around 3.5 GB of usage at one point, but not really much beyond that.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,418
    edited December 1969

    You don't need a utility - the application is LAA or it isn't. The thing that needs switching on is the operating system, and that applies only to the 32 bit versions.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    edited November 2013

    The Thing that you get from TechPower forums says

    This is an application that assists in making applications large address aware. When a 32-bit application is large address aware, it can access up to 4 GiB on x64 operating systems and all memory that isn't used by the operating system and other applications on x86. 64-bit versions of Windows require no modifications to the operating system to benefit from this application;

    It is something that assists you in making 32bit programs (such as Bryce) aware that they can be LAA. (sort of)

    It then goes on to explain how to do it on 32bit operating systems.

    So it can be used on both 64bit and 32bit systems, but is used in a different way on each.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • NaviNavi Posts: 452
    edited December 1969

    Thank you Richard Haseltine and Chohole, I understand a little bit more now (they give instructions for switching it on 32 bits systems, but this is unneeded in 64).

    Hoping the Poser 9 exes are LAA then, will see that in a few days :) - If they aren't I guess this little handy tool from Techpowerup should do the work, hopefully.

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