Backing up installed content
LmWolfSpirit
Posts: 239
I am in a constant state of anxiety thinking about losing the drive where Poser and DS runtimes/content are installed (I lost two drives earlier this year, though not the ones where runtimes and content are installed). I would rather die than re-install all of my content. It's bad enough having to re-install updates.
I have considered several methods of backing up, but most have draw backs (e.g., most if not all cloud services will not back up executable files). So what I would like to know is how other people handle doling backups (specifically of installed content).
Thank you for any ideas.
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Have you considered an external USB or eSATA? Many of them come with bundled backup software, though the value of that bundled sw is sometimes iffy. Depending on what antivirus software you have, some of them come with a backup app too.
I distrust cloud storage as a matter of course. Who knows where the files are physically, or who's looking through them? What happens to your files if the provider goes out of business?
Thus, I have a nice little USB drive that I back up to irregularly, but at least once a month.
I just had my external server I rented burned down a week ago.
Luckily I had been moving things around and cleared it out mostly so no real losses were made for me.
It teached me to better be save than sorry!
Yes, I have thought of that. Unfortunately, the eSata external drive that I have . . . uh, died (and it was not one of the two that I mentioned previously). So this option does not exactly give me a sense of security. Thanks for the idea though.
I agree about the cloud storage. Even though they say the files are encrypted, given my extreme paranoia I don't think that would stop anyone from accessing my files.
Even at once a month, that would be only a month's worth of re-installs rather than 5+-years worth. Not quite so daunting. = )
Ouch! I thought about building another computer (I have two desktops and one laptop now) to use strictly for backup purposes, but to network the computers, I would have to buy a full version of Windows 7 and another hard drive ( already have an extra MB, graphics card and memory), and DAZ keeps finding other uses for my limited funds.
Greetings,
My entire 'Runtime' is in a folder managed by DropBox.
It ROCKS; I have three machines, all synched to the same DropBox. I can create a scene on one (usually my friendly, but low-powered laptop), save it. Go to my medium powered Windows box, or (at work) my high powered Mac Pro, load the same scene (relative paths FTW!) and render it.
Oh, AND all my Runtime and scenes are backed up.
-- Morgan
So how much extra Dropbox space did you have to buy to fit all that? I know my free Dropbox could never hold my runtime. Is it worth the expense?
Let us say that I got past my distrust of Cloud sites, I still couldn't make it past the $50/ month fee. And, yes, my runtimes would require the maximum space.
I have a second 2TB HD and a 1TB external and a 3TB external that I have all my backups on
In the process of setting up an external RAID 1 array. No fun so far. Gotta back up the main stuff I want to backup, which seems like a redundant mess to go through and then I have to hit this little switch in the enclosure and it will set up the two drives for the RAID and also blank my old backup drive (thus why I need to backup what's already on it) and then recopy all that over. Seems like such a waste of time but equally tired of loosing backup data due to faulty backup solutions (all of which are have all been Seagate external backup drives. Their internal drives seem solid enough so I'm sticking with those but using external enclosures to make my own external backup drive with. The setup is from NexStar and it's their 400MX S3R. It's a good company and I'm sure the RAID setup is probably something that's been a PITA to set up for a long time now according to others so it's not there fault I'm forced into this long way round sort of thing. BUT once it's set up I'll have one backup drive and one mirrored drive. If one goes belly up I still have the other.
It looks like the consensus is for some kind of external drive system. I think I will need to set up something similar to your setup, RamWolff, in that I want a backup of my backup. = ) I have always sworn by Western Digital drives myself.
I am wondering if making an iso of the different partitions that Poser, the runtimes and DS are on would be worth it along with regular incremental backups to one or two external drives.
(Of course, I will have to rob a bank--oh, nvm, I am not a Wall Street banker--to get the externals especially after the recent DAZ sales and the RDNA annual sale that started today. *sigh*)
Thanks all for your thoughts.
I hear ya. I use my CC for so much and try to pay it down each month or I wouldn't have much. I don't drive so on line shopping is both a credit and curse to my existence! lol
LOL, I wish I had that much willpower. I drive, but only go out once a month-for groceries--so online shopping, my credit cards and my inability to turn away from bright, shiny things are at constant war.
For what's it worth..
I'd also look beyond your library, merely for extra security. Because all those packages which you may have installed using the content installer are very easily accessible too. Better yet; you can save a lot of valuable disk space by moving those out of the way, and if you put them on a safe location you'll basically get a second backup.
Of course; restoring your library from a backup is a lot faster than having to re-install all your contents using those install packages; but even that is a relatively quick process considering that install manager will be doing most of the work (extracting the archives into your library folder).
I install everything by hand. Mostly because I'm a bit fussy about where my content lands and the naming of items (e.g., a lot of content providers put their name before the item name or put items in a folder under their name which I find unacceptable when I am trying to find something.) I do admit that I am a little more lax with DS/Genesis stuff than I am with Poser content, but I still change or move things to make things more convenient for me and the way I work.
Thanks for the idea. If I ever break down and use the installer, I will keep that in mind.
I burn everything to dvd disks. No chance of sites going down or external drives or computers crashing. The external or computer is used for items I am currently using, while still having copies on disk. The disks will outlast drives and sites and depending on how much you push your computer, they can even outlast that. I have disks I burned about 10 years ago and still have access to everything that is one them. Just make sure you store them properly, like one of the binders for keeping disks, and label them. Also keep away from sunlight. Never leave them lying around cause they get scratched and you lose some content.
My suggestion would be to get a small, 1 or 2 TB, external Drive and a Blue ray Writer drive. Blue ray discs are about $1 apiece or less on newegg. My runtime is on the order of 160 GB which would take 7 discs. Use these for major back ups ( after major changes ) and the external Hard drive for normal back ups. I'm sure an archival program would get the size down a little and make it easier. Just for fun, I set WinRAR to compressing my runtime and it says it is getting a 25% compression ratio. It is also saying it is going to take 3 hours on a 6 core system....
Gus
I don't trust CDs/DVDs/BluRay disks too much anymore - have had many that have become unreadable or have developed errors over the years. Typically it's a particular brand or batch that fails. Stay away from cheap brands, though even HQ brands may fail sometimes. Use verify when burning.
When I use them for backup, I always make 3 copies of each on 3 different brands of disks, then the risk of losing data because of a bad brand/batch/disk/whatever is greatly diminished. Sometimes an unreadable disk or one with errors can actually be read sucessfully in another type of drive, so try that in case.
Here's a free program (Windows) for checking CDs and DVDs for corruption:
http://kvipu.com/CDCheck/
Greetings,
So how much extra Dropbox space did you have to buy to fit all that? I know my free Dropbox could never hold my runtime. Is it worth the expense?I pay $20/mo., have 209.5GB, and it is VERY MUCH worth the expense. Just in the ability to trivially switch machines, and have scenes 'just work'. But also to have everything backed up, and not worry about it.
I also can start a render to a file at work, and head home (or at home and head out), and keep an eye on the Dropbox folder for the image to show up. I can view the renders on my iPhone, or my iPad...my laptop, my Windows desktop, or my Mac desktop. I can share links to them, even if I'm not near a computer with Dropbox installed.
Not to sound like an advertisement, but it's really made things easier for me. It's worth the $20/mo., just for that. There are some issues (I have a peculiar DIM setup, for instance), but I'd hate to try and make it work without Dropbox.
-- Morgan
[Edit: Just to note, I also have a Synology four-drive RAID setup at home, which I use for safe storage, and that's where I migrate my scene files and postwork-files to once I'm done with them, which keeps my Dropbox for pretty much _just_ my 'My Library'/runtime and current work.]
I agree about the cloud storage. Even though they say the files are encrypted, given my extreme paranoia I don't think that would stop anyone from accessing my files.
CrashPlan offers personal encryption (448 bit Blowfish) with custom key which encrypts/decrypts the files on your own computer:
448-Bit Encryption With Custom 448-Bit Key - Generate Your Own Private Key
Highest upgraded security
Private key (unsecured) is stored on and never leaves source machine
Manage your own private key per machine, with each computer under this account theoretically using a different private key
Web restore, guest restore, new installations, remote restore, etc. require the private key
Administrators need private key to restore
Impossible to remember, with increased risk of losing the private key (not being able to restore)
http://support.code42.com/CrashPlan/Latest/Configuring/Security
CrashPlan offers unlimited backup for at little as $5.99/month (even lower with annual subscriptions). Been using them for almost 3 years now, works perfect.
https://www.code42.com/store/
"25,000-drive study shines a light on how long hard drives actually last"
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2062254/25-000-drive-study-shines-a-light-on-how-long-hard-drives-actually-last.html
@CalieVee and Gusf1: Thank you for the information. I do have a BluRay writer and lots of disks, the problem is more in organizing and time.
Just so y'all know what I am looking at: I currently have in my independent Poser runtimes 189 GB of installed content with 389 Poser files left to install (not counting updates). In the Poser 7 runtime, I currently have 65 GB, and on Poser Pro 2012 a mere 8 GB. In DS, I have 30 GB installed with another 230 files to install. Note these are the runtimes only, not the programs.
So with about 292 GB of installed content and about a 100 GB left to install, I am looking at about 400 GB to back up onto disks, backup drive and/or the cloud. I would be looking at the minimum 30 disks (making a backup of the backup --I agree with Taozen about the possibility of disk failure). However, I am not sure how to organize the backups. There are quite a number of required content files that are outside of the runtimes, and the thought of splitting up runtimes so there is room for incremental backups will me giving me nightmares.
I did try a cloud service at one time. And in 30 days, it failed to back up more than 100 GB even though I had paid for unlimited. They also would not back up .exe files, so I couldn't back up most of my downloaded content.
All the more reason to keep good backups. When I was living in another state, my computers were stolen so often that I never had a chance to see how long a hard drive would last. Now that I moved to another state and have had my computers stay at home and met up with DAZ, I am paying more attention to backing up.
There are many cloud backup services out there, some are good, some are not so good. CrashPlan is definitely one of the better, they're being used by NASA, Adobe, Bank of America, Google, HP, National Geographic, and many other companies.
Currently I have 438 GB backed up there, and I know some have 2 TB or more. They offer to send you a 1 TB hard drive you can put your files on and return if you have over 300 GB files (you have to pay extra for this of course). No problems with exe files. They also use data deduplication which means that if you have changed a few bytes in a file which already has been uploaded it only uploads the changed bytes. Saves a lot of bandwidth.
All the more reason to keep good backups. When I was living in another state, my computers were stolen so often that I never had a chance to see how long a hard drive would last. Now that I moved to another state and have had my computers stay at home and met up with DAZ, I am paying more attention to backing up.
Note that the drives in this test were comsumer drives, used in a professional environment (cloud backup). They've probably been pushed to the limit, and will probaly last longer in a personal computer. I've had two Seagate drives that lasted over 10 years, and WD drives that so far are still running fine after 7 years. It's usually bad sectors that kills them, rarely mechanical failure, in my experience.
There are many cloud backup services out there, some are good, some are not so good. CrashPlan is definitely one of the better, they're being used by NASA, Adobe, Bank of America, Google, HP, National Geographic, and many other companies.
Currently I have 438 GB backed up there, and I know some have 2 TB or more. They offer to send you a 1 TB hard drive you can put your files on and return if you have over 300 GB files (you have to pay extra for this of course). No problems with exe files. They also use data deduplication which means that if you have changed a few bytes in a file which already has been uploaded it only uploads the changed bytes. Saves a lot of bandwidth.
Thank you. I took a look at the link you posted. How long did it take you to back up 438 GB? Did you, can you back up the entire Poser runtime folder so the entire program sans that on the C drive is saved?
Does it slow down your computer while doing backups or use a lot of resources? (I sometimes have C4D, ZBrush, Photoshop CS5.5, Poser, Windows Live, Firefox, iTunes and a few small programs running at one time. LOL, I would hate to have to turn something off.)
If I had the $124 to seed their hard drive, I would buy an external to replace the one that died. = )
Note that the drives in this test were comsumer drives, used in a professional environment (cloud backup). They've probably been pushed to the limit, and will probaly last longer in a personal computer. I've had two Seagate drives that lasted over 10 years, and WD drives that so far are still running fine after 7 years. It's usually bad sectors that kills them, rarely mechanical failure, in my experience.
I was reading the comments and saw that most drives after the initial year tend to stay up and running for a much longer time. I stick with Western Digital (this harks back to a time when mixing hard drive brands caused problems). My computers (except the laptop) run 24/7 so I don't put the extra restart strain on them. The major concern I have is the temperatures in this room which during the summer can get quite high or during the winter rather low (I have to work with a coat on = )).
Thank you. I took a look at the link you posted. How long did it take you to back up 438 GB? Did you, can you back up the entire Poser runtime folder so the entire program sans that on the C drive is saved?
Does it slow down your computer while doing backups or use a lot of resources? (I sometimes have C4D, ZBrush, Photoshop CS5.5, Poser, Windows Live, Firefox, iTunes and a few small programs running at one time. LOL, I would hate to have to turn something off.)
If I had the $124 to seed their hard drive, I would buy an external to replace the one that died. = )
I think I backed up about 250 GB during the first month or so, on a connection with 2 MBit upload. The rest is new files (mostly software and 3D content) that has been added slowly since. I plan to backup a lot more, just need to sort photos and tons of other files accumulated over the years for stuff that has to be deleted first. Tough job which I so far have managed to find excuses for not doing... :)
No problem with backing up an entire runtime, you just select the entire folder for backup, and do the same when you restore, it will then restore it all where you choose to put it, keeping the original folder structure.
As for resources and bandwidth you can adjust it to use as much or as little as you like, and with different settings for when you use the computer and when it's idle. You can also control when and how often it backs up. You can stop it anytime and make it "sleep" for 1 hour to 2 days, and restart it any time you like. It's usually scanning the disks for new and changed files before backing up and that can slow things down a bit, like all disk I/O activity does. Not sure if the settings for resource use have any influence on this. But you can also pause this using the sleep function, if you like. The software is excellent with tons of settings you can adjust, much better than anything else I've seen from a cloud backup service.