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Oh my there are some discussions going on over there
I am sharing this here simply as it is a using DAZ 3D content subject and that seems to be a sore point by some there, I think it is highly within DAZ’s interest to work with Bondware to update DSON for Genesis 3 and 8.
For one reason alone,
profit
They are a content provider and Max, Maya and even Blender users use their content and have made native duf importers, this needs both sides to co-operate for mutual benefit, yes you can go via DAZ studio but not everyone wishes to or can use that app.
A lot of products at Renderosity are textures for DAZ3D DAZ studio products so it’s a complimentary not competing market and in the small world of 3D renders using premodern content I think it’s prudent to ensure one’s content works in other software.
While La Femme has her fans a lot of Poser users would rather use Genesis 8 female and I can see why, not rubbishing La Femme but the DAZ figures are pretty awesome as we all know.
Sorry my comment was duplicated!
I said why some have questioned whether artists who create DAZ products would be banned.
That will not last for at least the next few years. And even if that matters, each company must defend its own interests, just as artists must also defend their own interests.
Personally I think the competition is much bigger than a Cold War (Rend x Daz) polarized (fueled by fans). In the last few years a lot of software has appeared (although none does not seem to be a direct competition).
Even Adobe has a software version Beta: Adobe Fuse... the characters look like Victoria3 / Michael3 and the simple features. When are artists and designers Adobe subscribers? I'm sure they are many. Adobe could be the biggest threat with 3D character software with the support of its own animation software.
I think the ship has sailed on updating the DSON importer to be honest. The code needs to be supported natively within the program, not via a slow, noncompiled python interface. But that's why DAZ is using industry standards like Dual Quaterion weightmapping... so that Poser could implement that and get Genesis into poser a more standard way. I also get the feeling vendors aren't thrilled with going back to making four sets of materials either. Considering I supported both platforms with genesis before the switch in weightmapping, I wouldn't be interested in supporting both programs for the amount of work I already do. Poser needs to find their way to make it work since this was the path they chose. Poser should have done this when we were willing to make it work, but we have new workflows now that don't include that program.
If Rendo wants Genesis in Poser, they need to go to DAZ3D and ask them for help to get it running NATIVELY in Poser because that's where the convo was left years ago. DAZ3D shouldn't be spending their own money and doing most of the work again while Poser does nothing. Poser really needs to invest in the development of their figure platform either way. But that's putting the cart before the horse. They need to see if they can do a better job of updating the code than the Portugal team first.
I did speak to a developer (sorry, can't say who) and he did say one of the issues with updating Poser is that it doesn't have the necessary APIs needed to add some of the features we would like (such as native support for Genesis 3/8). He's hoping that will change soon.
Is it to believe that Renderosity/ Bondware really invests a lot of money to do the needed APIs or other necessary changes? Frankly I'm skeptical. I just hope they don't listen to those users who are openly hostile to the Genesis figures. I don't think they represent the majority of users who want native support for Genesis as much as I do. A lot of people simply vanished from the Poser related forums and others seem to have embraced DS.
I'm not hostile to Genesis, would welcome the support, but it should not break anything. Poser 11 broke a lot of things that worked in Poser 10 (especially in the shader and python department) and caused al lot of people, like Dreamlandmodels, to leave. Restoring compatability with older Poser versions - if possible already in a next Poser 11 fix - would be a good idea.
Both applications have been drifting apart for years and years, especially when they decided on different weightmapping technology and different render engines/shaders, and later different cloth and hair simulation technology. I'm a bit sceptical how close they can get together again. The only render engine I know of they still share is an external one; Reality/Lux.
They could go far a plugin system; an optional iRay exporter with DAZ shader support for those who'd like it. (No idea how the copyrights should be handled) Programs like Maya also rely on external render engines. Both DAZ and Poser could work on developing an external render plugin that supports both programs. But that's supposing they would even want to.
How well a program can handle two different weightmapping techonolgies at the same time; I have no idea. Dropping compatability with Dusk & Dawn, ProjectE, Bella, La Femme and the native Poser Characters would not sit well, either.
I would welcome better native Poser characters. Ever since Poser 5 the characters have been too mundane, and lacking in anatomical correctness and rigging. Good characters should be morphable from nerds to fashion models to super heroes to alien monsters. DAZ delivered, Poser did not.
I have no idea where Poser should go. (Personally, I hope not the way of ever RAM heavier content wiht the need for ever more powerul GPUs. Can't afford that.The need for ever more expensive graphics card made me drop DAZ Studio and iRay all together. I would need a render engine that is fast enough on CPU only.)
Poser needs better animation tools, particles, a better and faster render engine, better characters with better support. Better and more diverse content for Poser; the old stuff is good but some of it is getting old. Content creators that support all Poser render engines (SuperFly support is rare, even years after its launch)
DAZ has content that fully supports Studio's technology at the push of a button. Poser - well, not really. Especially where SuperFly's concerned.
Let's just wait and see where it goes.
Re: Poser figures
Rendo needs to -dramatically- overhaul Poser. This is a monumental task: even top companies find it hard to tackle a task like this (poorly documented rambling products with a history of being owned by many companies and numerous versions and modules that have lots of problems).
I wish them the best. I think a cool alternative to Daz is a good thing and I feel bad for Poser users suffering for so long.
But it’s going to require skilled software development and MONEY.
I think it will be a better use of resources to create compatibility with Genesis then ALSO having to create and fund and oversee a team to develop top tier figures.
Now, if Rendo seriously overhauls Poser, adds more compatibility, and then maybe another cycle of bug fixes and feature expansion, then maybe there will be time and resources to launch a premier figure development team.
my 2c
You can have more than one type of weightmapping in a program. DAZ has had two since the beginning of DS4; "General" was the Dual Quaternion weightmapping so the program was set up to switch from the Triax by using the dropdown box when you're weighting the figure/object. The thing that allowed that happening is the fact that DS4 was a total rewrite of the code base; Poser is still sitting on the code from its inception. To move the program forward, it may be necessary to rewrite the code so that you can compartmentalize sections of code so you can add different weightmapping, use industry standards and make it easier to make changes. Getting the code to a point where it can handle changes and make user workflows easier may be the thing to do first before talking about importing 3rd party figures. Dumping fairly recent content that works would not be a good idea, however there may be some 20 year old content and tech that may need to be jettisoned so that new features can be supported. So while the Dawns, Roxies and Lafemmes, Victoria 4s should still be supported, they may not want to keep 20 year old features that no one hardly uses around.
But that requires a major investment of money, hopefully they have that or it may be that Poser may just be around for maintenance fixes to keep the current version going. But again, they have to see if there are able (via manpower and finances) to dig in and properly modify the code better than the former Portugal team.
General and TriAx are two diferent ways to handle the weighted joints - General has a single weight map, TriAx multiple maps. Dual Quaternion is a skin binding method, which is a second choice after the rigging system.
That's what meant though ;)
what happens with the activation server?
I own Poser 11 and not Pro...
does it mean I can't activate in case I have to reinstall the OS?
can't find any information on this
have the same question
but as they are so interested updating the user base with an email at least what happened and what will happen (what happened we now know - no Poser 11 only Poser 11 Pro)
in the long run I wish I never would have spent money on it as everything is uncertain now
You'll need to ask that question over at Renderosity, since they now own the code base.
Just had a reply from a certain Obi Jenn Kanobi
She says in the next 120 days there will be an update which will change the registration system and links and a (uncertain) change to the UI
Serial numbers will continue to work.
All questions and purchases are not limited to Renderosity, but the official website to buy is posersoftware.com and this is what you should use for anything related to the software.
That's all I have but also for everyone else this should clarify things
happy P11 to you all
cheers
Over at Renderosity they said all valid serial numbers will continue to work (and they specifically said that non-pro versions will continue to work).
what a boring thread this is...where's all the politics and drama guys??!...what happened to the war!
rendo,poser,daz...those words in a sentence used to incite vitriol and infighting...now it's all hugs,kisses and well wishes...bah!,your all getting soft in your old age :P
the war is over on the Rendo forum
there are some very touchy people supporting La Femme, the other figures v DAZ content
honestly I don't think DAZ has much to worry about base figure content wise even with just V4 from what I have seen and tried,
just my 2cents
would just love to see compatibility with later stuff too
Reminds me of the old saying/joke: What if we had a war and nobody came?
Heh. The war will bubble up again, and probably soon! Over at the R'osity forums I keep getting angry comments every time that I say new versions of Poser MUST support Genesis figures or the software is going to die on the vine (so to speak).
And I also get some nasty comments when I point out that the future does not lie with "La Femme" (any more than it did with Dawn and Dusk). Having a good figure doesn't matter if there's no content available for it!
oh, the war...? really?
I never knew there was one
I always try to be respect and polite at a funeral.
Well the Pavlovian "hate response" to the mere mention of Daz/Genesis aside, There are very good reasons for
Bondware inc to NOT tie their program to a figure who's development cycle they do not own.
Daz's strategic market strategy for expansion will move forward wether poser continues to exist or not.
Look at how they assisted the development of the upcoming DEX plugin for Maya by giving the developer access to internal DAZ SDK 's to complete the feature set.
Now if Autodesk makes core changes to Maya 2020
and breaks the DEX plugin, Daz will have to fix things on their end.....Not Autodesk.
Daz _Steve effectively "leaked" that Daz studio will have a new IK system ,in the fall, for animators.
Reallusion has assured that the Iclone user can leverage his Daz content into Iclone Via the GENX style shape projection system of Character Creator 3 to create perfect Iclone native "Dopplgangers" of any Daz Character from Mill4 to G8 and has an Auto weighting system for DAZ clothing conversion.
Daz content is for less expensive than the Iclone native content, in the Reallusion marketplace, to say nothing of the fact that Daz studio is FREE and makes content Export very easy.
However if Genesis 9 Breaks Compatibilty with Reallusion CC3,
then reallusion will have to"Chase the unicorn" again to restore compatibilty.
Daz has long since moved beyond any need to keep Figure compatibility with the decrepid Poser Code base.
Renderosity now controls two out of three of the elements to be competitive in this market again.
The core program and the Primary retail market that sells content for the program.
Now they need Flagship NATIVE poser figures, of high quality, and the poser equivalent of the DS transfer utility
,for easy clothing rigging ,and other UNIFORM STANDARDS for poser native content creation
to attract Developers.
"Project E" was actually not a true "poser native" figure.
It was built to exotic nonstandard specs by a person who somehow expect Smith Micro to acceed to their demands that poser be "Updated "to work with his custom one off.
That is not how things work in this market.
Lafemme was the Darling of the former program owners
and no word on if the new owners will coronate Lafemme as the Official Default poser female.
At any rate, I dont see how shoe horning Genesis 8 into Poser is the solution to making it viable again.
That’s pretty much what I was getting at when I said that Daz/Genesis stuff is barely tolerated at Rendo. Those people would probably be the first to go French Revolution on DS content if given the chance, lmao
And frankly, with how lackluster La Femme and her offerings have been so far, I sure hope they have a contingency plan in case she goes the way of Dawn/Dusk, Project Evolution, and Pauline.
Wolf: the thing is, developing Poser back up to snuff is a monumental task requiring skilled management and considerable resources.
Developing a competitive new figure with a good range of initial options to kickstart a content ecosystem is ALSO a monumental task requiring skilled management and considerable resources.
Strategically, the most sensible approach would be to rely on Genesis figures and compatibility until the application is brought up to snuff, then shift toward working on a figure suite that can compete.
absolutely sensible what you say
you know, I got Poser to fill my scenes with some static figures not overly too complex like in the DAZ Gallery but good enough that you see some life in it
never made a big deal out of figure design, frankly DAZ is way too complicated to get a single figure dressed and posed, so I got Poser because it's easier
I still can't do a stock figure that comes with DS - no clothing, no proper outfit equals back to Poser for me - don't know how you guys do figures in DS... MAGIC?
no, it's not a rant but the result of purely documentation and tutorials to make use of this program
when I search for tutorials it's all about figure design from scratch incl. clothing.... no time for it, just wanna use stock figures that come with DS, but nope IMPOSSIBLE
Indeed however even the most die hard poser loyalists agree that the primary reason the content developers left was because of the poor quality of the native figures , not so much the rest of the poser application which they seem to love .
IMHO The priority should be to attract
New Poser native content creators with a vested interest in poser itself, with better content creation tools and viable poser native figures Owned by the same company that controls the primary core app & retail market.
Well IMHO the foundation has already been laid by the "lafemme" Character.
Unlike "PE" this character was built according to the current figure capabilties of poser 11 so it seems like a good place to start.
Respectfully Will,
The application will never be "brought up to snuff"
if they commit resources to maintining compatbility with an external figure that very often breaks compatibilty even with its own Content developers and end users.
Consider that Poser is not a free "loss leader" programto foment sales of other products
Poser is the primary product.
No matter what radical changes Daz inevitably makes to the next version of Genesis,
You Daz PA's will be able to painlessly move one to the new version without having to buy anything again.
You will get your new,updated ,PA only, tools handed over to you immediately,perhaps even before the new Genesis hits the store.
Consider the frustration of not only having to wait until bondware updates poser for the New Genesis ,before you can store test your Poser/Genesis content,But having to $$buy$$ that new version as well.
I doubt most Daz PA's would find that acceptable.
And what of the of the Poser/Genesis users?
One of Posers biggest problems has been having to compete with older iterations of itself as many users never bothered upgrading.
Daz is completely unaffected by those of us who wish to stay with Genesis 2 and DS 4.9 etc and dont bother downloading the Free new DS version sitting in our accounts
Bondware will be greatly affected by poser users not buying the
next "up to snuff"' version of poser out of fear of breaking their curent genesis figure compatibility.
Or worse being told ,without warning, its time to pull out the credit/debit card because an unaffiliated, third party, in Draper Utah decided to update Genesis accorrding to their strategic agenda...not yours.
The Maya example is weak. Maya has its own modeling tools, is a full package appication. Dosen't need DAZ support to get sell.
ditto that, Maya is in comparision by all means a real software
No it does not... and that is the point ...yes?
The upcoming DEX plugin for Maya is Daz risking that Autodesk
will not Make that Plugin useless with a Maya update that breaks Compatibility.
Autodesk wont bother with checking with Daz when they update Maya unless Daz becomes a certified Autodesk developer.
Even then Daz will still have to spend Development cost to keep that plugin working for an external program they do NOT control
Bondware will be taking a similar risk in altering the poser code to work with Genesis figure tech.
which will not include HD morphs,Daz JCM's
or any of the highly useful add ons like Zev0's utilities(growing up etc.)
Yet still Bondware will have to divert their coding team to trying to keep ,an already watered down, Genesis "functional" whenever Daz updates Genesis for Daz studio..
A fools gambit IMHO
Well actually HD morphs are supported, if you can get the figures into a readable DSON cr2 format in the first place, I have done it myself but it’s a lot of fluffing around, one needs a script to take away all the legwork.