Hair Today... and a little over the top

drcharbonneau

Dynamic Hair.

I finally have a system I can dedicate to CG. That means DS and likely other DAZ products. I just wanted some bringing me back up to speed about recommendations for doing hair in DS and any latest input on HEX.

Currently I've been doing just about everything in Blender, because of the hair issue. The last time I checked with DAZ the dynamic hair was still a dream app. Any updates to that?

Another question about DS in general: Is it possible to display an animation on a billboard? Let's say I created an animation in Blender, saving it in a compatible format, wanting it as a moving part of the background, can I have that moving its frames along with the action in DS?

Can I save a sort of "green screen" animation in DS to export to another renderer/animator?

Whatever it becomes, I recommend to anyone who likes to work bigger, that they buy a second hand 32" Emerson 720HD TV. A 2GbRM 620 card, 4GbRAM and a 2.5Ghz CPU pushes it gracefully to tighter vertex or face picking. I can only imagine going 4K someday.

So that was a little over the top on hair...

Richard Haseltine

There are two strand hair plug-ins for DS - Garibaldi Express and Look at My Hair - but neither is a true dynamic system (yet).

DS doesn't support animated textures in the default shaders but it does have two shader-construction panes that would at least in principle allow access to an image sequence.

You can (and probably should) render to an image sequence - saving that as PNG would be the equivalent of a green screen process.

drcharbonneau

DS doesn’t support animated textures in the default shaders but it does have two shader-construction panes that would at least in principle allow access to an image sequence.

Is there a link to some tutorial or manual areas for the construction panes?

As for the hair plug-ins, will their usage allow me to manually move the strands to a new position while animating and the program will fill in the intermediate motion to arrive at that key frame position?

Tjeb

Have a look at this:
http://www.optitex-dynamiccloth.com/Store008.php

(depending on your screen settings: don't forget to scroll down the page)

and this answers your question about green screen: http://youtu.be/erlBt5slyqk
rendered to an image series (png) with green Backdground.

Richard Haseltine

drcharbonneau said:

DS doesn’t support animated textures in the default shaders but it does have two shader-construction panes that would at least in principle allow access to an image sequence.

Is there a link to some tutorial or manual areas for the construction panes?

There isn't much on Shader Builder, but Shader Mixer is discussed here http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/25448/

As for the hair plug-ins, will their usage allow me to manually move the strands to a new position while animating and the program will fill in the intermediate motion to arrive at that key frame position?

I don't know - obviously if you edited a frame, rendered, edited the next frame, rendered, etc. but I don't think grooming changes are keyed in either.

WendyLuvsCatz

you can conform the hair exported as geometry using the transfer utility on triax figures
it is very high poly though
maybe some morphs can be added by restyling and exporting that geometry as a morph target, not dynamic but can create illusion
I have not tried it as is so very highpoly just the conforming.
Cinegobs keyer a good free program for chromakey the png sequences open in it as video with transparency and you can add any video or image series backgrounds.

drcharbonneau

Gosh. I've been giving this all a lot of thought. I really like the way DS renders. I like having a pre-rigged figure.

This is my dilemma. I have two books written in my trilogy. It would be fine to render in DS if I were making still illustrations, which I do plan. I could work between two programs, possibly even HEX (HEX allows me to work on the figures while retaining the rigging?) and the dynamic hair wouldn't be such an issue. Recently, though, I decided to do some serious animated scenes to place on YouTube for promoting the books. The characters mostly have long hair and it needs to be a part of the action either way.

I thank you all for the input. Maybe you can still offer some ideas that will let me do the animations in DS.

As of now, I'll likely be pursuing the route of rebuilding the rigging and eyes, etc. in Blender, then going from there at least for the animations. Regardless it's time I started learning HEX.

Can someone explain "bone welds" to me?

WendyLuvsCatz

unfortunately LAMH polycounts change with styling so it cannot be used as a morph target for itself
pity
rigging it for spring bones in iClone video link proved messy too, those triangles stretched polys between bones impossible to seperate for weightpainting.

drcharbonneau

Yeah... That's what is disenchanting. Does Carrara offer better hair dynamics?

Kerya

Another idea would be to use one of the hairs by Mairy / 3Dream which have so many morphs that you can make their movement follow the movement of your figure ...

drcharbonneau

Can we morph objects?

drcharbonneau

Another idea would be to use one of the hairs by Mairy / 3Dream which have so many morphs that you can make their movement follow the movement of your figure ...

That sounds interesting. The only exception I have to purchasing premade content, at this point, is the learning.

The adage is "If you buy a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime."

Writing software like DS is a major undertaking. I'm just beginning to learn Python and the fact is I often wonder if I'd be wiser to put the rest of my writing/art work on hold and just write a modeler/renderer that does what everyone wants. For a single handed programming effort, that means a couple years at least.

In the meantime, I'm still hanging on to Blender, attempting to find my personally best method of incorporating it with DS. I'm reasonably sure I could make hair in Blender, then save it as an object to import into DS. That's why I asked about using morphs on (imported) objects. I've watched the tuts on rigging and morphing clothing and non-dynamic hair from HEX, but am unclear about incorporating from Blender.

If someday I do write a modeler/renderer, it will likely store animation data differently. The files will likely be hard drive intensive, but RAM comfortable. That's what I was driving at with the query about incorporating animations from other software.

wiz

drcharbonneau said:

Writing software like DS is a major undertaking. I'm just beginning to learn Python and the fact is I often wonder if I'd be wiser to put the rest of my writing/art work on hold and just write a modeler/renderer that does what everyone wants. For a single handed programming effort, that means a couple years at least.

For a single handed programming effort, it is more than a lifetime of work. Every existing modeler (Blender, DAZ Studio, Carrara, etc) or renderer (LuxRenderer, 3Dlight, etc) represents more than 30 person-years (a person-lifetime) of effort. So, unless you are immortal, or transhumance in your programming abilities, you will not finish a project that ambitious.

Is your writing something useless that no one wants? Because, nothing personal, if you try your hand at writing your own modeler/renderer, that's exactly what you will create. We all love the idea of the lone "cowboy programmer" creating the "next big thing". And, if the cowboy is a genius and the software carves out a unique niche, sometimes the story has a happy ending. I don't see a unique niche here, and, sorry to be blunt, but you don't sound like a genius. Look at it this way.

Blender has been in development for a quarter of a century (since before 1989). It started life as the in-house modeling software of an animation studio, a "mission-critical" piece of software with "we're betting the company on this" funding. After it became an open source project, dozens of people contributed code. The Blender Foundation has a permanent staff and host about a dozen visiting modelers, animators, and software developers. They also burn through a few hundred thousand in corporate sponsorship each year. Despite that level of resources, Blender has never been, and is likely never to be, "a modeler/renderer that does what everyone wants".

DAZ is a commercial entity. Their modeling IP goes back a quarter century to Zygote Media. Their software base includes things like the Ray Dream Studio modeler (now "Carrara") and Meta Tools Bryce, both products that hail back to 1989 (a good year for software, rich and full bodied). Yet the whole DAZ soft are portfolio, taken individually, in total, or in any particular combination of Bryce, Hexagon, Carrara, and DAZ Studio, with any number of third party plugins, also is not "a modeler/renderer that does what everyone wants".

So, if your writing is something useful, if some people want it or like it, to throw it away in pursuit of "a modeler/renderer that does what everyone wants" is pure foolishness, if you lack the ability to create that modeler/renderer.

wiz

drcharbonneau said:

Recently, though, I decided to do some serious animated scenes to place on YouTube for promoting the books. The characters mostly have long hair and it needs to be a part of the action either way.

Most books sell just fine without "serious animated scenes to place on YouTube". Are your books not generating a fan base or word-of-mouth themselves?

If the books are an important part of your life (and it sounds sort of like they aren't, if you're seriously considering leaving your trilogy unfinished to go off and try to write a modeler) then…
* Learn how successful writers promote themselves and their books.
* If you do decide, after doing some research, that "serious animated scenes" actually are necessary, hire a "serious animator" who knows (and has access to) the right tools for the job and get back to concentrating on your writing.
* If you are bound and determined to do this yourself, stop farting around with free hobbyist tools. If these animations actually are crucial for promoting your books (hundred to one against that, but hey) then you're talking "bet your career" requirements. Carrara is about the minimum entry price (just $171) for support for dynamic hair and animated textures. Normally, when people bet their career, company, etc. on animation, they use tools like Maya or Max.

drcharbonneau

I don’t see a unique niche here, and, sorry to be blunt, but you don’t sound like a genius.

Of course that blunt statement is in ignorance. I've been writing software for my own use since '94. Personally I've never been a teamwork type of guy, nonetheless my employment repertoire includes more than a few contracts where I was hired because I do the work of a team independent of help. I'm not sure what you think a genius sounds like, but I know how dumb jocks expect one to be and "sound like." If you can assess my IQ and skills in programming without ever looking at code page one I've created, then unfortunately, you are sounding like those dumb jocks. I didn't start this thread to be insulted and I don't think you'd recognize genius or deft skill if it bit you on the nose. I started it to assess enough information to make a decision about a CG method.

I simply asked a question that might enhance what I already do in DS and Blender hoping it becomes unnecessary to go back to code writing. If you are part of the DAZ programming team, I can understand why I've needed to bring up the subject of dynamic hair again... and again...

I'm considering Cararra. Before I shell out $285, I want to know how it compares to Blender which has quite a repertoire of bells and whistles. As I write this, I have a genesis figure separated with the eyeballs, dentures (not the greatest example of modeling) and eyeballs floating in one layer while readying the outer skin on another for making scalp areas including for eyebrows, lashes and pubes. I'm wanting to know particulars like those as they compare to Cararra... not an insult from someone ignorant about me or my skills.

Considering I designed, engineered, constructed, welded, wired (if applicable), painted and erected all these signs using a boom truck of which I similarly built the crane, I can do more than most would imagine.

WendyLuvsCatz

if you do not change the vertex order multiple morph targets can be loaded using obj exports from Blender or another software on an obj
be it a hair sim or dynamic cloth etc so long as it is mesh.
fluids for example will not work as the amount of mesh changes with the simulation.

Chohole

Can we please remember the DAZ 3D forum ToS and in particular bullet point #2 Criticism should be directed towards the subject or topic at hand, rather than an individual.

Thankyou

drcharbonneau

if you do not change the vertex order multiple morph targets can be loaded using obj exports from Blender or another software on an obj
be it a hair sim or dynamic cloth etc so long as it is mesh.

Now we're getting somewhere, thank you. Unfortunately hair is a particle system.

I did attempt, some time back, to add morphs to a DS cylinder primitive with some success. I may try that again.

I'm not satisfied with the results of textured or UV mapped hair. It might be okay for a still illustration, but for animation that LAMH video showed more promise.

It looks like we need a plug-in called "riggermorphus." :)

drcharbonneau

Can we please remember the DAZ 3D forum ToS and in particular bullet point #2 Criticism should be directed towards the subject or topic at hand, rather than an individual.

Thankyou

No problem by me :)

Kerya

"Teaching to fish ..."

From my freebie hair list - just the tutorials (without the Hair painting tutorials):

5. HAIR TUTORIALS

Efindel’s make hair fall in a natural way with V4’s head tilted back DazStudio
http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=1767733#1767733

Kozaburo’s Hair Tutorial
http://digitalbabes.jp/tutorial.zip

Valea’s Hair in Hexagon:
http://www.art-collaborations.com/Valea_HexHair.pdf

Modeling Joan of Arc by Michel Roger
http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/joanofarc/hair1.asp

Polycount HairTechnique - links to tutorials:
http://wiki.polycount.com/HairTechnique?action=show&redirect=Hair+Techniques

drcharbonneau

Thanx Kerya! I'll check all those out later today.

drcharbonneau

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=69913

Thanx again Kerya. This looks very promising.

I was able to successfully export Genesis rigged to Blender using the Collada instead of object choice. Not sure where I'm going with this at the moment. I know I'm going to start writing that aforementioned software if for no other reason than to keep my coding monkey skills well lubed, still, between DAZ, Vue, Poser and Blender, I've gained some ideas.

Chohole,

Some time back you posted a Bryce animation you made. Could you post that again? If I recall correctly, that was your own [errr... uhhh] "lone cowboy" work? I'd like to show that off to some doubting Thomases, naturally giving credit where it is due. I'd think by now you are aware that I'm an ethical man and ask if in doubt. I understand that Bryce has some limittions, still, I thought that was a decent example.