Poser and Carrara

ThomasSc

Hi,
I am trying desperately to find a way of importing Poser clips into Carrara. Here are the problems:

a) Creating a multi-frame pose in Poser, then opening a figure (e.g. Hiro) in Carrara, and applying the pose via Browser->Content->Poses. Problem: Carrara does not import the splines between the keyframes, so the whole animation looks awkward. Applying a Tweener (e.g. easy-in-easy-out, spline) to all keyframes does not work, because the Poser splines are very different from those created with Carrara.

b) Creating a multi-frame pose in Poser AND creating a keyframe for EVERY frame in Poser, then opening a figure (e.g. Hiro) in Carrara, and applying the pose via Browser->Content->Poses. Problem: Carrara crashes regularly because of many, many keyframes. Here, I must delete several keyframes for useless things like morphs and so on.

Any ideas?

Regards,
Thomas

Dartanbeck

I've never had such problems, myself - though I've never actually played around with the tweeners in Poser. I do all of that in Carrara. And since owning Carrara, I actually work the opposite way now:
I use Carrara to create the animation and then use Fenric's BVH/PZ2 exporter plugin to export from Carrara to PZ2 animated poses, which I save into the Content > Pose portion of a runtime, as one would find it in Poser. Where I have used Poser for Carrara was to use the walk designer on a path and save the resulting animated Pose file for use in Carrara. I have never had any problems doing this - that I can recall. I never tried the adding of a key to each frame, like you said, and kept it that way. Like you mention, it's a PITA to work with afterwards. If this is the only way for you particular situation, however, try saving the animated Pose in Poser in one second intervals:
If you're using 30 frames/second, try saving frames 0 - 29, then 30 - 59, then 60 - 89, etc., until you've saved the whole animation. Then when bringing the PZ2s into Carrara, after loading in the first second, move to one frame past the last one recorded, and load the next, and so on. Then you will have the opportunity to delete and tweak one second at a time - making it a lot more manageable.

I must say, though, that I've also never had issues with loading in too many keys in Carrara either - granted I haven't been animating much at all since I've upgraded to 8.5.

Some of the aniBlocks that I import have many seconds worth of many, many keys - and Carrara just works fine and fast. One suggestion is to try working with these animations before building up a big scene - or actually even a small scene. I always build my scene separately and then save them into a custom browser location, and then do the same for my animations and my characters. Sometimes I save my animations to Carrara NLA files, other times I'll just save the character with all of the keys in place. Then I can load in a finished scene file I've made, then an animated character, or several of them, for the render.

Dartanbeck

Being Christmas, it may be a while before I post again... just FYI if you come back with a question and I don't get back... it'll probably have to wait until the 26th.

ThomasSc

Hi,

Thank you for your reply. I created a video where you can see my problem.

At the end of the video you see how Poser creates in-betweens and how Carrara does it (it tried with a Bezier). Poser uses splines to create movements. To create splines in Carrara, I have to open up the Graph Editor and edit EACH and EVERY X-Y-Z curve for EACH and EVERY body part. Poser does it automatically the way I like it :)

Video link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ov10fd9mux85hbc/Komp1.mov

Now, the only thing I can think of is a formula in Carrara that does this "Poser thing."

Here is the situation with the "all-keyframes-created-in-poser" problem: https://www.dropbox.com/s/03b7l72mj4vlz5q/all-key-frames.jpg
You see that Poser exports and Carrara imports even keyframes I really don't need. Normally, I just need the rotation of the joints and the position of the feet...

Any ideas?

DUDU

ThomasSc said:

Hi,

Thank you for your reply. I created a video where you can see my problem.

At the end of the video you see how Poser creates in-betweens and how Carrara does it (it tried with a Bezier). Poser uses splines to create movements. To create splines in Carrara, I have to open up the Graph Editor and edit EACH and EVERY X-Y-Z curve for EACH and EVERY body part. Poser does it automatically the way I like it :)

Video link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ov10fd9mux85hbc/Komp1.mov

Now, the only thing I can think of is a formula in Carrara that does this "Poser thing."

Here is the situation with the "all-keyframes-created-in-poser" problem: https://www.dropbox.com/s/03b7l72mj4vlz5q/all-key-frames.jpg
You see that Poser exports and Carrara imports even keyframes I really don't need. Normally, I just need the rotation of the joints and the position of the feet...

Any ideas?

Cannot see your video...
I know Poser very little but I noticed that in its “timeline”, there is a keyframe with each image.
Carrara eats the meal that Poser prepared to him without anything to add…
Perhaps that Poser does not show all its small secrets!

ThomasSc

Hi,
It's all about the in-betweens. Carrara doesn't import them!
Regards,
Thomas

evilproducer

ThomasSc said:

Hi,

Thank you for your reply. I created a video where you can see my problem.

At the end of the video you see how Poser creates in-betweens and how Carrara does it (it tried with a Bezier). Poser uses splines to create movements. To create splines in Carrara, I have to open up the Graph Editor and edit EACH and EVERY X-Y-Z curve for EACH and EVERY body part. Poser does it automatically the way I like it :)

Video link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ov10fd9mux85hbc/Komp1.mov

Now, the only thing I can think of is a formula in Carrara that does this "Poser thing."

Here is the situation with the "all-keyframes-created-in-poser" problem: https://www.dropbox.com/s/03b7l72mj4vlz5q/all-key-frames.jpg
You see that Poser exports and Carrara imports even keyframes I really don't need. Normally, I just need the rotation of the joints and the position of the feet...

Any ideas?

One thought that popped into my mind is, what version of Poser are you using and what version of Carrara? How is the figure brought in?

It looks as if you're using Posers version of either a graph editor or some kind of puppeteer type function. I'm sure it creates keyframes as indicated in the example in your video (which zips by so fast you hardly have time to pause it- maybe hold that frame a bit longer in the future) you can see the points in the spline which are more than likely translated to keyframes. It also looks like a simplified interface. If the head side to side movement is what you're after, then you shouldn't (in theory) need to adjust all three of the axis' in the editor.

evilproducer

ThomasSc said:

Hi,
It's all about the in-betweens. Carrara doesn't import them!
Regards,
Thomas

Are in-betweens Posers name for tweeners? Or is it some kind of Non Linear Animation clip, like a Carrara NLA Clip?

DUDU

Carrara automatically creates tweeners according to the model which you selected by default in the preferences of Carrara.
I carry out sometimes animations in Poser and I import them in .pz3 and I do not have any problem exept for the eyes.
In fact, my tweeners setting is regulated on Bezier by default and long spaces between the keyframes for the eyes must be changed into linear, if not there are odd deformations.
But for the remainder, all goes very well.
I see your video now but not very clearly, your “in betweens” (tweeners) seems to be all linear?

ThomasSc

Hi,

Is it really that hard to understand? :)

Here is an image: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8q87qmrnvqlbhg5/difference-poser-carrara.jpg
It shows the keyframes and the tweeners/inbetweens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbetweening).
The KEYFRAME (position, rotation) is the same but the inbetweening is different, so the whole animation looks different. In the video, the Poser animation uses SPLINES and Carrara uses Bezier curves. What I want is to import not only the keyframes into Carrara but also the inbetweening (SPLINES!!!).

Or at least I just want to not import these useless keyframes shown here:https://www.dropbox.com/s/03b7l72mj4vlz5q/all-key-frames.jpg .... because Carrara regularly crashes :(

Happy Christmas BTW :)

Regards,
Thomas

evilproducer

ThomasSc said:

Hi,

Is it really that hard to understand? :)

Is it really that hard to be polite? It can be if you're not using terminology that other people aren't familiar with. Also, if you're trying to do something that is Poser specific, then Carrara may translate the data the best that it can.

BTW, I know what a tweener is, and how it is supposed to work.

DUDU

Honestly, I never had this problem, animations which I make in Poser are exactly the same ones in Carrara.
For the keyframes in excess, I think that which you show can be deleted (except the firsts).

ThomasSc

Hi,

I don't want to be impolite, it's a real question :)

However, perhaps anyone else could become impolite because I write the same stuff over and over again :)
Example: I wrote in my first post -> "Carrara crashes regularly because of many, many keyframes. Here, I must delete several keyframes for useless things like morphs and so on."
Here comes the last answer: "For the keyframes in excess, I think that which you show can be deleted (except the firsts)."
Thank you :)

OK. So, here is the question I have.

a) How can I import SPLINES from Poser to Carrara?
b) If this cannot be done. How can I fake AUTOMATICALLY splines created in Poser automatically?
c) If this cannot be done. How can I delete AUTOMATICALLY keyframes for morphs and deformations?

Thank you :)

Thomas

DUDU

As I already wrote it to you higher, Carrara automatically creates tweeners/in betwens or interpolations in French, according to the model which you selected by default in the preferences off Carrara.
Thus you will never have the same ones as in Poser but, I repeat myself, I do not have a difference between my animations created in Poser and that imported in Carrara…
For the two other questions, you must do that manually if that crash your computer… Sorry !

DUDU

I can see now that you can deselect "Import Morph targets" when you import a .pz3.in Carrara.

WendyLuvsCatz

for morphs it might also have to do with whether use external binary morphs is selected in preferences in Poser
it certainly makes a difference in regards to animated dynamic cloth sims converted to morphs.
as for excessive keyframes, Daz aniblock importer, FBX and BVH imports have a keyframe for EVERY bone EVERY frame!! and cause no issues for me.
I delete whole lines of them by loop select to tweak movements, do not use the graph editor so much but you can select looped sections there too and alter animations.
saving your ani as a pz2 should also work on a new figure loaded in carrara rather than importing a whole scene though I do both unticking lights and cameras only.

DUDU

Carrara don't import the path of the character in .pz2, he walk in place (may be not with the Fenric's plugin ?), not in .pz3 but, yes, you have a lot of cameras, lights etc to delete...

WendyLuvsCatz

you can save translations in a pz2, you get an option, I do with physics sims all the time, not sure about walk designer as I do not use it.

DUDU

I made, it does not have a long time, an animation with Walkdesigner and Dynamic clothe and imported in Carrara in .PZ2, and the character walked on place…
Which difference would there be with Walkdesigner?

evilproducer

ThomasSc said:

Hi,

I don't want to be impolite, it's a real question :)

However, perhaps anyone else could become impolite because I write the same stuff over and over again :)
Example: I wrote in my first post -> "Carrara crashes regularly because of many, many keyframes. Here, I must delete several keyframes for useless things like morphs and so on."
Here comes the last answer: "For the keyframes in excess, I think that which you show can be deleted (except the firsts)."
Thank you :)

OK. So, here is the question I have.

a) How can I import SPLINES from Poser to Carrara?
b) If this cannot be done. How can I fake AUTOMATICALLY splines created in Poser automatically?
c) If this cannot be done. How can I delete AUTOMATICALLY keyframes for morphs and deformations?

Thank you :)

Thomas

And I asked for more information, like what version of Poser and what version of Carrara. It is not an irrelevant question as there are newer versions of Poser that have been released that have features that are not compatible or fully compatible with Carrara. If this spline tweener is new or significantly updated, Carrara may do its best to interpret the data.

Carrara has many types of tweeners, including linear, bezier, spline, etc. etc. I have no idea if the spline tweener in Carrara acts like the spline tweener in Poser.

Better yet, create the animation in Carrara. It's not that hard. Really it's not.
http://youtu.be/NY8nM1Uqsao

http://youtu.be/nkWBRuJlQhA

http://youtu.be/iS-sNje4k0o

ThomasSc

Hello,

If someone else gets frustrated over this issue, here is the Python code I use now. It creates keyframes for only those parameters stated in the variable lParamsAccepted.

*** START ***

import poser
import string

def KeyFrameCreatorT():

scene = poser.Scene()
figure = scene.CurrentFigure()

#list with accepted parameters
lParamsAccepted = ["xTran","yTran","zTran","Twist","Side-Side","Bend","Up-Down"]

#step through all actors of the figure (e.g. Hiro)
for figAct in figure.Actors():

#step through all parameters of the actor (e.g. LeftArm)
for parAct in figAct.Parameters():

#only accept those parameters stated above
if any(parAct.Name() in s for s in lParamsAccepted):

#step through all frames
for intframe in range(scene.NumFrames()):

scene.SetFrame(intframe)
parAct.AddKeyFrame()

KeyFrameCreatorT()

*** END ***

Regards,
Thomas

DUDU

Happy to see that you have find a solution !
I don't believe if there are so many people which use scripts in Carrara, but since Fractal Dimensia made me discover them with its project “Pyswarm”, that seems to me very interesting: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/31190/
Now, it would be necessary that you explain the procedure to follow for yours! :roll:

Thank you !

ThomasSc

Hello,

I'm glad too. Now it's working fine.

It's a Poser script.

This is to be done once.
a) Copy code into text file
b) Add parameters if needed --> lParamsAccepted = ["xTran","yTran","zTran","Twist","Side-Side","Bend","Up-Down"]
c) Save text file as "KeyFrameCreatorT.py"

This is how you use the script.
a) Start Poser
b) Create the animation you want
c) Click on File -> Run Python Script
d) Choose "KeyFrameCreatorT.py"

Poser will create a keyframe for every frame for the parameters. This will take a while!!!!!

Regards,
Thomas

Dartanbeck

One thing I've noticed that is not correct are the facial motions. Try saving your Poser animations without that. If you want to then save the facial animations in the Face tab... do that. Otherwise, you'll likely get better results just doing all of your facial expressive work directly in Carrara. Since some of that stuff can come through within the Head, it might be less productive to try and delete that information once in Carrara.

Although many Pose files that you can buy come with eye turns and such recorded into them, almost none of my animated poses include them - for good reason. Mostly because it makes it difficult for the next user to make their own - and most people want to make their own. But it also makes for a more versatile file - and, in this case, might give you a file that simply works better.

You're right about Carrara not importing tweeners, but just the keys along the frame. Again, this is the best way to do it. Some folks prefer to set their default tweener behavior at 'linear', while others like bezier. I switch back and forth for different purposes - depending upon what I'm doing.

Since there really doesn't seem to be a lot of motion going on in here, I bet you'd have an easier time just performing the poses in Carrara. If you need to pin the feet, and that's why you prefer Poser, saving animated pose files with the feet and/or hands pinned during any of the steps in the animation can have an adverse affect on the saved pose file. To use similar results straight within Carrara, perhaps you could have evilproducer (or someone else whom may know how to explain it) show you how to use target helpers and IK to pin the feet to the floor during your posing. I do a more hands-on approach of actually rotating each joint and translating the hip, etc., by hand, using the grid and/or other visual aids to make my animations - so I am not familiar enough to just explain the IK techniques off the top of my head.

Not sure I'm helping here. I know you keep explaining yourself... but we can't watch your process as you work - so it makes it hard to help - especially to those of us who do it without getting the problems. Really sorry about that part. Hopefully we can peel back the layers and figure this thing out.

ThomasSc

Hi Dartanbeck,

Well, I use Poser because you get great results in a very short time frame. I don't have an idea how your animations look like and what you think "a good character animation might be." So, perhaps you can give me an idea! For example, if you don't see any difference between the left and the right animation (see video in a previous post) then we have different ideas what a character animation should look like :)

In my opinion, it is very hard to create human looking motions in Carrara.

Thank you for your advice concerning the expressios.

Regards,
Thomas

Dartanbeck

No problem. I like to try and help in any way I can.
Why don't you like animating in Carrara? Just wondering because I actually like it better.
As for comparing yours, I am certainly not as familiar with what you're after as you are. I never even got a script. So to scour the two, very short clips, side-by-side like that would be quite counter productive to my own endeavors. Sometimes, to expect help, we must help the helper. Not trying to sound cocky, because I'm not.

ThomasSc

Hi,

Carrara is good for animating technical stuff and so on. I use the animation tools for this kind of stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqF-aBtTBnY

But when it comes to humans, IMHO Poser is better because:
- hands can be animated more easily because you have sliders such as "Grasp", "Spread", etc.
- all keyframes added are linked via splines, which makes motions human-like
- the graph editor in Carrara isn't really helpful - Poser's graph editor is great
- I can use Poser on two screens (on the left side the figure, on the right side keyframe and graph editor)
- I can use the symmetry function to make the right side of the body like the left side and vice versa
- I can use the Walk and Talk Designer :)

Well, what about you? Why are you loving Carrara over Poser when animating humans?

Regards,
Thomas