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Does iray use sRGB?

takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 1,997
in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)

I just got done watching this video, and it's very enlightning, so I'm hoping iray isn't stuck behind the sRGB brick wall that blender was for so long!

Also, just how many fstops does DAZ's camera have up to?

Comments

  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805

    Iray can render HDRI. I'm not sure about 3Delite. Never experimented with the range of the fstop.

  • Doc AcmeDoc Acme Posts: 1,153

    If you've a LOT of spare time & REALLY want to understand this stuff, you might want to visit here:

    This was done for Ligthwave, but the principles apply to ALL CG apps using Iray, PBR, Cycles, etc. 

    Craig, aka RebelHill is a highly respected guru in a number of CG circles.  You can't go wrong bookmarking this info.

     

  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,796
    edited August 2019

    The video by blenderguru does some confusion .. srgb isn't bad at all, it is just the color space used by the monitor. Then the filmic transfer function is better at simulating the human eye perception, but it transfers anyway from linear to srgb.

    Post edited by Padone on
  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 1,997
    Padone said:

    The video by blenderguru does some confusion .. srgb isn't bad at all, it is just the color space used by the monitor. Then the filmic transfer function is better at simulating the human eye perception, but it transfers anyway from linear to srgb.

    Except that the monitors that it was mainly designed for was CRTs and not ideal for rendering.

    Doc Acme said:

    If you've a LOT of spare time & REALLY want to understand this stuff, you might want to visit here:

    This was done for Ligthwave, but the principles apply to ALL CG apps using Iray, PBR, Cycles, etc. 

    Craig, aka RebelHill is a highly respected guru in a number of CG circles.  You can't go wrong bookmarking this info.

    Thanks for this, subbed!

     

  • prixatprixat Posts: 1,590
    edited August 2019

    Yes. DS uses REC.709, (that's linear sRGB) as a default.

    BUT it can be switched to REC.2020, (that's HDR), or ACES (filmic).

    Studio does not have the options in the interface yet.

    I would expect them in Render Settings/Spectral. If there were other re-curving LUTs like 'false colour' they would get added to the list under 'faithfull' etc.

    Post edited by prixat on
  • takezo_3001takezo_3001 Posts: 1,997
    prixat said:
    Yes. DS uses REC.709, (that's linear sRGB) as a default. BUT it can be switched to REC.2020, (that's HDR), or ACES (filmic). Studio does not have the options in the interface yet. I would expect them in Render Settings/Spectral. If there were other re-curving LUTs like 'false colour' they would get added to the list under 'faithfull' etc.

    Thanks a lot, I use the specular setting by default to boot, I'll do some testing right now!

  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,796
    edited August 2019
    takezo_3001 said:
    Padone said:

    The video by blenderguru does some confusion .. srgb isn't bad at all, it is just the color space used by the monitor. Then the filmic transfer function is better at simulating the human eye perception, but it transfers anyway from linear to srgb.

    Except that the monitors that it was mainly designed for was CRTs and not ideal for rendering.

    There are some professional monitors that can dislpay adobe srgb or rec 2020 if this is what you mean, but most monitors work in srgb once you calibrate them correctly. That's not ideal for rendering is true for every device around since it doesn't exist a device that can display the whole linear space, so you have always to transfer to a narrow gamut, and that's where the transfer functions come along.

    https://www.eizoglobal.com/library/management/3dcg/

    Post edited by Padone on
  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805
    Padone said:
    takezo_3001 said:
    Padone said:

    The video by blenderguru does some confusion .. srgb isn't bad at all, it is just the color space used by the monitor. Then the filmic transfer function is better at simulating the human eye perception, but it transfers anyway from linear to srgb.

    Except that the monitors that it was mainly designed for was CRTs and not ideal for rendering.

    There are some professional monitors that can dislpay adobe srgb or rec 2020 if this is what you mean, but most monitors work in srgb once you calibrate them correctly. That's not ideal for rendering is true for every device around since it doesn't exist a device that can display the whole linear space, so you have always to transfer to a narrow gamut, and that's where the transfer functions come along.

    https://www.eizoglobal.com/library/management/3dcg/

    The only time any of this matters is in print work. for images not ever being printed sRGB is perfectly fine since the overwhelming majority of monitors display only the sRGB color gamut, assuming the monitor is calibrated.

     

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,744

    I recently picked up a SpyderPro to calibrate my monitors because I was tired of how different things looked from one display to another. But even so I've noticed a huge difference in how my phones (both iPhone and Galaxy Note) display them. It is very annoying that the appearance of colors and exposure vary so much from device to device. Especially when most of our images are only viewed digitally.

  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805

    Did you calibrate your phones as well? 

    The issue with images having very different colors depending on the monitor viewed on has always been a problem. Back in the early 00's when I did websites I had to have a disclaimer in my contracts and on my site that said that colors would not be accurate across all monitors. Periodically I'd show someone their finished site in my office and they'd love it and then they'd go home bring it up on their own display and the colors would be very different then they'd get mad. I got threatenedf with lawsuits over this a couple of times. 

  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 2,700

    For digital work, calibration on a high end monitor is almost counterproductive, as a majority of end users looking at it have nothing near calibrated monitors lol.

  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,796
    edited August 2019
    TheKD said:

    For digital work, calibration on a high end monitor is almost counterproductive, as a majority of end users looking at it have nothing near calibrated monitors lol.

    Most modern monitors come with a srgb preset that's calibrated by factory, especially if they have ips or va panels. Then you can anyway test your images on other profiles to see if they come along fine enough. But not calibrating the monitor is not a solution, it is just ignoring the issue. I mean, if someone doesn't calibrate the monitor then he can't expect or pretend any color accuracy at all.

    Post edited by Padone on
  • rsharp_3144816rsharp_3144816 Posts: 99
    edited August 2019
    TheKD said:

    For digital work, calibration on a high end monitor is almost counterproductive, as a majority of end users looking at it have nothing near calibrated monitors lol.

    Avoiding calibration for this reason is very bad since any color shifts are now compounded.

    I use an iMac Pro with a Datacolor Sypder X for calibration.   And my office uses daylight-balanced lights so any ambient light doesn't throw things off either (mostly useful when doing physical prints).  Although if prints are going to a gallery with say 3200 K lights, you'd want to preview your images under that color temp.

    And while client devices (e.g. iPhone) do have features to react to ambient light as well, it is very difficult to have every display match of course.  But again, if you do calibrate your display where assets are created, you'll know for sure that all colors are how you intend them.   And, for those clients that have proper display setups on their end, they can view your work exactly as you intended.

     

    Post edited by rsharp_3144816 on
  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805
    Padone said:
    TheKD said:

    For digital work, calibration on a high end monitor is almost counterproductive, as a majority of end users looking at it have nothing near calibrated monitors lol.

    Most modern monitors come with a srgb preset that's calibrated by factory, especially if they have ips or va panels. Then you can anyway test your images on other profiles to see if they come along fine enough. But not calibrating the monitor is not a solution, it is just ignoring the issue. I mean, if someone doesn't calibrate the monitor then he can't expect or pretend any color accuracy at all.

    Most monitors for sale today are not factory calibrated. Pretty much the only ones that are, are the top of the line ones and those marketed specifically to professionals.

  • JonnyRayJonnyRay Posts: 1,744

    To me, the advantage to using the SpyderX Pro on my monitors is the peace of mind knowing that I had done what I could on the devices I use for graphics. They aren't high-end monitors and I didn't have any illusion that they would pass muster as providing "professional" results. But the color and exposure fidelity feels much better to me. At least this way I'm less concerned that any issues I (or other people) see on other devices is because I have a bad setup on my graphics PC.

  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805
    JonnyRay said:

    To me, the advantage to using the SpyderX Pro on my monitors is the peace of mind knowing that I had done what I could on the devices I use for graphics. They aren't high-end monitors and I didn't have any illusion that they would pass muster as providing "professional" results. But the color and exposure fidelity feels much better to me. At least this way I'm less concerned that any issues I (or other people) see on other devices is because I have a bad setup on my graphics PC.

    From what I've seen a regular, properly done calibration will keep even a cheap monitor color true within its capabilities. No matter how much calibration you do you can't make a 94% sRGB monitor into a 97% one.

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