Revisiting Big George's serious lack of Wardrobe
Doc Acme
Posts: 1,153
Hey all,
I've had big George https://www.daz3d.com/george-for-genesis-8-male for awhile. Wonderful character but I've noticed that there are very few actual clothing items specifically for him. Promo shots show him mostly naked, with only simple & loose fitting https://www.daz3d.com/summer-vacation-outfit-for-genesis-8-male-s, or the King George add-on https://www.daz3d.com/king-george-hd-for-genesis-8-male.
I've had some issues outfitting him with one particular Wardrobe set though & thinking the best approach to correct is using Marvelous Designer.
I want to put George in the Mobster outfit https://www.daz3d.com/mobster-outfit-for-genesis-3-male-s, which I converted from Gen3 to Gen8, so no dForce help. Seems to work fine for all other chars, but with George it becomes a bit of "Whack-A-Mole" trying to adjust as there are multiple layers of clothing. Just looked and the original G3M Mobster Outfit is already in a T-pose which I seem to have better luck using on the G8 George.
But the real issue I think is when I started examining George in the default Gen8 "A" pose, his under arms geom actually intersects with the upper chest/torso area. Don't think any amount of adjusting's going to get around that.
Even so, with just the shirt, it looks fine. With just the Overcoat, it looks fine. It's when I enable both the poke through & stretching happens, the shirt coming throught the coat. I tried having the Overcoat fit to the shirt which almost does the trick, but then his thumb pokes through the sleeve cuffs.
I'm thinking this is a perfect Marvelous Designer project, starting with making a custom T-posed Avatar with George. That shuold simplify things a bit using the G3 clothing items.
What I'm wondering is, after I make a new fitted shirt, should I make a new Avatar for MD with the shirt AND George in order to then make the fitted Overcoat?
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Comments
Why not create some opacity masks for the shirt hiding everything except the parts that are supposed to show? Or use the geometry brush to hide the offending areas? That way, if there's poke through, it's invisible.
You can add dforce to any clothing items. (in the simulation tab, under editor, the 5 little line to the upper right of it. Dforce - add dforce modifier dynamic surface.)
depending on the clothing, how it was made and how detailed it is, you have a 50/50 shot at getting it to work in my experience.
With multiple layers of clothing, try to add collision to each layer colliding with the layer above it to keep the below layer from poking thru the top layer.
As for MD, I believe you have to start with the default body shape.
Pumping up the smoothing stuff can also help the conforming clothing flow over bulkier skin, properly posed anatomical elements (i.e. "the bulge"), and so on.
"Smoothing Iterations" under Parameters -> General -> Mesh Smoothing. Can also try "Collision Iterations" as well.
Want a proper bulge? Pose well, add more smoothing.
It's worth a shot with George, anyway.
You can bring in other avatars with Marvelous Designer.
That's certainly an idea to check into. Ultimately, I'm exporting the character to another app (LightWave) so it's not just for a single pose.
I looked & couldn't find how to do that so will certainly look closer. Daz's marvelously intuitive UI at it's best again.
I tested this awhile ago with just the overcoat on a George A-pose obj & was encouraged, but still having issues with the shirt.
I'd just as soon fix it as I'm exporting this to Lightwave. I can fix some things there, but the less, the better.
Yes, I've gotten that far. Worked quite well earlier for the overcoat, and will run some test tomorrow with the shirt.
50/50? You've had more luck than I have. I even bought that product to set up the surfaces for best results (supposedly to avoid explosions) but I get explosions on almost all of the garments I have tried to convert to dForce. That's one of the reasons I ended up buying Marvelous Designer. All I need to do now is learn how to make garments ;)
I set George into a "T" pose & saved out an OBJ. When I import that into MD, it imports but I get a message that the Arrangement Points were not fitted to the avatar as it must be in a T- or A-pose. Visually he is but what's needed to exactly satisfy MD for a T-Pose then? The A-pose version of him imports fine but don't know if there's a way to transfer those. I might have to manually set them but hoping to avoid that.
Anyone?
You can try using the T-Pose obj as a pose for the A posed one that is importing with no errors.
I was wondering about that & may give that a go later today. Largely wondering if there's some offical definition of a T-pose.
Waaaah! Exporting the dae file was easy & once I got the correct scaling factor set, MD brought it in & saw the points. Unfortunately, those don't go along with the animation. I'll have to research on the MD side to see how that might be done.
Please do not post naked figures in skin colours, If you absolutely have to have it naked then please use texture shaded, or else if you don't need the full length figure to demonstrate the problem please adjust your camera to give a partial torso.
Yes'm. Didn't think it an issue since model has no actual naughty parts.
And yes it has to be full figure in this case to show the problem.
So I hope this meets with approval now to demonstrate the problem so that this thread is still valid.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/3279/acceptable-ways-of-handling-nudity#latest
mebbe some of Ivan's duds?
Ivan? Is that a character?
Discovered last night that the Mobster shirt I'm wanting to use isn't well suited for working with in Marvelous Designer. Some parts like the tie and the knot to the collar are separate geom. Found some hidden buttons under the tie as well. As such, those pieces just go off on their own or end up on the ground in the MD simuation. I suspect trying to "fix" those so the obj would work in MD will mess up point order for the morph in order to work with the original shirt back in Daz. I'm going to test with just the contiguous portion of the shirt to see if anything translates. If not, it's then look for a suitable shirt or actually make one. Not quite up to that yet.
George has quite a few JCMs to help with bending, so some functionality will be lost when you move him outside of DAZ Studio, but yeah, he's suffering from what real life oversized people are also suffering, I guess.
Ivan's a bulkier character for G3: https://www.daz3d.com/ivan-7-pro-bundle
For dForce, here's a thread that has tons of helpful suggestions and settings: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/208141/how-to-use-dforce-creating-a-blanket-draping-clothes-on-furniture-and-much-more-commercial#latest
Which is somewhat why he's a great character I guess. Definitely stands out. I'm wanting that Luca Brasi character look:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwikytCQ6aPkAhUzOn0KHXJxA4oQjRx6BAgBEAQ&url=https://www.pinterest.com/pin/481955597602746758/&psig=AOvVaw3jnR-6Ss-BZuRfHwN7N1r9&ust=1567021740789364
I considered going with a G3 char, even getting the G3 version of George, but I'd have the same basic issue; dForce clothing has contiguous geom which most other clothing items don't so they're really not good MD candidates. There is a dForce trenchcoat but not quite the same.
As far as movement, that's sort of how all this started. George was one of my first FBX exports that things started to click. So I have him with FK & can do pose fine tuning & some limited animation in Lightwave. He was always a bg character but when I started looking a bit closer & at different anges was when I noticed the issues. Thought it was on the Lightwave end until I started looking closer in DS.
If I'd just left him as a static object ...
Ah, Poor Big George.
I've made some excellent progress with with dForce items of late & maybe this has been thrashed out in another thread, but I just gotz to say something here.
I've been trying to outfit Big George as a Mafiaoso for some time now, but he really, REALLY, has a limited wardrobe available. Loose fitting summer wear or near-nothing items such as towels.
The gangster outfit is great for the look I want, but unfortunlatey not Big George friendly when ya go to pose him in what would be a pretty normal pose for any other character.
Found a nicedForce Trenchcoat outfit. https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-trench-coat-outfit-for-genesis-8-males
Great. Sims w/o problem 'splosion problems but, ... wait a minute! Whats' up with the buttons? They aren't geometry at all but just textures!!!
So look what happens just out fitting Georgie w/o even posing him:
Really Oskarsson, https://www.daz3d.com/oskarsson ; ???
You go to all that trouble with the coat & rest of the outfit then drop the ball with the buttons (No! Not the Buttons!!!) on a dForce product?
For shame.
Yes, I know there's the disclaimer of supported shapes with a more "Normal" figure, no problem w/:
Christian 8
Darius 8
Edward 8
Floyd 8
Landon 8
Lee 8
Lucas 8
Michael 8
Mr Woo 8
Nix 8
Ollie 8
Owen 8
Vladimir 8
But it's also G8M. As is George.
I can apply to others not listed even such as Rex, but still,...
Very specifically, on a dForce product, buttons should NOT be a texture but rather isolatable geometry. I might be able fix to Wt. Map, but still...
Seems as if Daz needs a Big & Tall section in the store. Or at least some spec standards/disclaimers for dForce listed products.
OK. Let me put this soapbox away now.
How do we get the jacket to open up?
Both flaps are sticking to each other. Just like the pictures above.
It's more like a dress than a coat at this point.
And zero morphs? None.
I can't believe there's nothing to adjust.
The trench coat is glued to the character....I must be doing something wrong.
I wish George and a female counterpart had been Daz core figures, just so that PAs were more compelled to design around extreme shapes like that.
It's been some time, but I've learned (after much T&E) a complete workflow with my exporting process, and I've pretty decent control over good ol' George and his wardrobe now. He's an exceptionally complex character as it turns out, as is the Duster, so wanted to keep whanging on it to understand what wasn't working & why, and what I need to do to make him work controllably, and that applies to characters pretty much. Two and Four legged.
Once I get mentally re-wired to work with Syflex, Georgie will certainly be a candidate.
Anyway, he might not be a Luca Brasi just yet, but I stll wouldn't want to meet up with him even in a bright alley.