Creating a Genesis 8 character from a custom mesh?
gibrril_fa945a6cee
Posts: 544
in The Commons
Hi all,
I'm playing around with photogrammetry to try and recreate my own head in 3D. If I ever get a good result, would it be possible somehow to use that 3D mesh of my own head as a sort of "target" for a character head morph for Genesis 8? (Somehow create a genesis 8 head morph that duplicates the geometry of my head mesh?
Thanks a lot,
Me
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Hmmmm, maybe a shrinkwrap would work? Blender has a shrinkwrap modifier
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/modifiers/deform/shrinkwrap.html
You'd need to combine retopology with sculpting I think. I'm far from expert though.
Thanks for the replies! That Shrinkwrap thing looks promising! Is there any documentation available on how to get genesis 8 into Blender, apply shrinkwrap an then get the modified genesis 8 shape back out as a morph? Also, could this approach work for just a head, instead of the entire genesis 8 figure?
pretty sure any morph you create has to be the same amount of vertices as the base figure. Your best bet would be facegen and probably easier also. Make sure it is only for personal use. Retopology and shrinkwrapping are connsidered derivitive when used with DAZ figures.
What does "derivitive" mean? Is there a way to make sure my own head mesh has the exact same amount of vertices as a genesis 8 head?
Derivative means it is derived from the Daz mesh, and so bound by the terms of the daz user license.
Vertex count isn't enough - it will let the shape load as a morph, but the result will look like a nasty transporter accident as vertex 1 of the model goes to the position of vertex 1 of the morph, vertex 2 of the model to vertex 2 of the morph and so on - not only does the global count have to match, but the order has to match too.
I believe this tool can take the high res scan mesh and morph a low res mesh (genesis 8) to fit the high res scan mesh. https://www.russian3dscanner.com/
It would be far, far better to just use the Genesis 8 model as your base for sculpting from the start. Then you don't need any crazy conversion/shrink wrap thing to try to wrap Genesis 8 to that shape. Facegen is a photogrammetry based creation tool, and has a version for Daz called Facegen Artist. Facegen is a decent place to start. At the least it should give you a decent base texture to use on G8. You might not like the morph it creates because it can be extremely generic, but you can simply not use the morph and still use the skin. Daz has a dev model for Genesis 8, you can export this model (at base resolution) to whatever your fave 3D modeling program is, and work from there. But Facegen can be very deceptive, in a good way. Because it basically inserts your photo on the G8 face, you may not notice that the actual morph is lacking. How well it works depends on just how much character your face has. If you have a gaunt face and have prominent chiseled features it may not turn out well. If you have a more round face it may work decent enough. There is a thread about Facegen somewhere in the forums where people, including me, post their Facegen creations. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/149871/facegen-now-on-sale-get-it/p1
Right now Facegen is not on sale, but it has been as low as $63 at various times over the year. It was on sale for $83 just a couple days ago.
Facegen has a free demo at their website. The demo does not give you Genesis 3 or 8, but you can test it on the first 2 Genesis generations and see how it performs for you before buying. https://facegen.com/artist.htm You could even buy it directly from their site, but sadly they don't offer any price break for doing so, and never do a sale like Daz will.
There is another similar app for Daz called Headshop. It has some interesting ideas, but I have difficulty recommending it over Facegen. It needs some polish.
You can use projection in zbrush. I imagine it's similar to shrink wrapping. Once you get the process down it's a very quick solution.
Thanks for the replies!!! Are there any tutorials out there on projection in zBrush? I do not like to use FaceGen or headshop: I have seen how they work and "just" two pictures is far to little to get a true likness in 3D. I really want the shape to match. If I can get the process to work, I would also like to use it to address a couple of other region of the genesis mesh this way: hands and feet are two areas that are still largely overlooked if it comes to getting them to look real in my opinion... As there is no "HandGen" or "FeetGen" program, I would like a different approach that would allow me to learn one technique that is applicable for the entire mesh.
Thanks a lot,
Me
For a seamless transfer, you would have to find something that combines these two technologies, photogrammetry and mesh retopology.
If someone could combine facegen with russian3dscanner, that would be awesome. Because r3ds handles full body meshes, and it does mesh retopology like its on steroids.
Facegen produces a more accurate obj file but you need a slightly different product from Singular Conversions to export it, essentially FaceGen for exporting objs rather than DAZ morphs. I think they actually have more detail than the DAZ morph exports because no reduction of polygons for details were needed so that the topology matches G8M/G8F.
I think it would actually be helpful with starting with a G8M/G8F with Facegen morph and then to retopo sculpt that was the morphed G8M/G8F to better match the 3D scan you have. Since you are interested in zbrush projection and shrink wrapping that tells me you're not actually that interested in learning to be a good 3D sculptor/3D modeler anyway.
this looks fun to try
https://www.daz3d.com/simtenero-shape-reprojector
Thanks! Is projecting in Zbrush also considered derivative, or if this works, could I be using it to create commerical products?
You can create morphs of Genesis 8, that users must have Genesis 8 to use.
But there is no magic step that allows you to use a Genesis 8 mesh and not have it 'count' as being derived from Genesis 8.
I tried using this for this type of task, it doesn't work. That's not what the reprojector was made for. You would need a genuine wrapping program. It can be done, but it will take some work and a plan to set everything up. No matter how good the wrap is, you will always need to clean up the Genesis 8 that has been wrapped. Specifically, the eyes, teeth, and ears, and possibly finger and toe nails will need to be fixed. Basically any part that goes inside the mesh like an eye will warp when wrapping, because wrapping only handles the external area of a mesh. Those internal parts will warp as the program shapes Genesis to match the 3D shape. No wrap program is perfect, so you'll always need to do this. So you will have to be capable of fixing those.
You still need a texture, too. Even if you can wrap the mesh and make a perfect replica of yourself, there is still the issue of getting the skin textured on a G8 UV. For that, you may just want to do what PAs do when they create textures. Since you are doing yourself, then you can probably take all of the reference photos you need.
Thanks for the many replies!
The concept of "derivative" keeps bugging me though... What I would like to achieve is this: I would like to try and create a head morph for G8 that would make the G8 head look like mine when the morph is applied. If this works, I believe I will have quite a unisue character morph, so the idea then came to mind that after all that hard work, I might be able to try and sell that character, as I would also apply some body morphs taht don't require photogrammetry (if at all possible here on DAZ). Is that workflow achievable? I get the strong impression that creating a morph for G8 in such a way would be okay, selling the morph as a G8 character morph, would not though... Thanks for clarifying this for me.
Selling a morph that would apply to Genesis 8 is fine. Creating a morph is, ultimately, a matter of developing modifications from the base Genesis 8. You are essentially selling 'moving from the basic character to my character.'
What wouldn't be is creating a new figure/mesh that someone could buy without owning Genesis 8, where the mesh was in some way created using Genesis 8.
You can sell morphs, saved as morph assets, you just can't sell it as a stand-alone model.
Thanks for clarifying that! :) Because If I need either Zbrush and or R3DS Wrap to make this happen, it could be a rather expensive process... So if I could earn some of that money back, that would be a massive bonus :)
I'm sure Blender must have some kind of projection/shrink wrap type function. Hexxagon will snap to a background object, I think, though not sure if it works with a push/shrink type of tool.
I think Modo also has a snap to and projection functionality, but I've only glanced at it. (I used 'draw on background object' for some dabbles with clothing)
Hi gibrril_fa945a6cee,
There are probably many ways to accomplish what you want, I've tried a couple of times to convert some game characters to Daz but I was never happy with the results although that is probably down to my failings as a 3D modeller that anything else. None of the ways are turnkey, you will need to hack around a bit...
The first thing to learn is what a Daz morph is, it's the difference between your shape (character) and one of the base Daz characters i.e. Genesis 8 Female.
You can sell your morph, you cannot sell the Daz base character.
As you are just wanting a head morph you could try FACEGEN or HEADSHOP, both can return excellent results from a photo or photos. The photos have to be just so and expect to do some tweaking to the morph and textures afterwards. Don't pay full price for either product wait for them to be on sale.
WRAP (Russian3dscanner) is another solution where you wrap the Daz base mesh around a target mesh. It does work but is fiddly to get right, that was where I fell down. They also have a version of WRAP as a plugin to ZBrush but I haven't tried that.
Hope the above helps, let me know if you want to know more.
Regards
Steve Schoon.
had you even try morph your head using dial parameters in G8 male?, the simplest way is the smartest way.
You could use Hexagon or Blender to do it as well and both are free.
Thanks for the feedback! I have tried to "dial in" my likeness using the morphs that are already there, but I don't get the desired result. Are there any tutorials available on how to do it using either blender or hexagon?
Thanks!
There is; it works well and is fairly straightforward. It can get timeconsuming around the eyes and head in general.
If you want to work on G8, use G8 as the base, you will save yourself a lot of time.
If the car you're after looks like a ford, buy one, don't create your own from scratch then make it work with fords
What does that mean? "Use G8 as the base?" I would like to "project" or "wrap" the photogrammetry version of my head on the G8 head. So I think I need both the 3D scan of my head and the G8 mesh. But I have no idea on how to combine the two using either blnder, hexagon, R3DS or Zbrush... A tutorial on this process would be very much appreciated :)