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Dynamic Hair Animation question

JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
edited January 2014 in Carrara Discussion

View the animation on YOUTUBE.COM by clicking here.

This is my first experiment with Carrara 8.5 Pro's Dynamic Hair. I learned a lot on this experiment but I still have a lot of problems.

I created a simple wig that consists of a crown, front, back and side object. I left out the ear flap, hairline and nape pieces of a regular wig because I thought it was too much. I parented the wig to a Genesis figure with a motion capture NLA clip applied to it. Then I ran a simulation on each object using a simple sphere for collision instead of the genesis figure. That seemed to produce quicker better results.

I tried making the wig parts as different hair groups on one object but they didn't drape correctly.

This version rendered fine with it parented to the figure in draft render mode. But I had to move the wig off the parent figure and back onto it to get it to render correctly in photo-realistic mode.

Has anyone else had these problems?

Hair01.jpg
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Post edited by Joepingleton on
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Comments

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    That is actually better than I have ever been able to get! Good job!

    BTW, dynamic hair is extremely difficult to animate. There have been several multi-page threads about this over the years. Your decision to use a proxy object for collisions and a haircap is the way to go. I believe PhilW has some conforming proxy shapes for V4 (I think) on his ShareCG account.

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the feedback and suggestions. I'll have to give them a try.

  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,945
    edited December 1969

    Yeah, Evil is right, that's nicely done !

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited January 2014

    View the animation on YOUTUBE.COM by clicking here.

    Thanks for the comments.

    This is my second experiment with Dynamic Hair applied to a genesis Figure in Carrara 8.5 Pro. I just simply replaced the Motion Capture from my last experiment with a Dance Aniblock converted to a NLA clip in Carrara and then ran the hair simulation on all the wig parts.

    There are still problems but I think it's a step in the right direction.
    What do you think?

    wig02.jpg
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    Post edited by Joepingleton on
  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    joeping said:
    View the animation on YOUTUBE.COM by clicking here.

    Thanks for the comments.

    This is my second experiment with Dynamic Hair applied to a genesis Figure in Carrara 8.5 Pro. I just simply replaced the Motion Capture from my last experiment with a Dance Aniblock converted to a NLA clip in Carrara and then ran the hair simulation on all the wig parts.

    There are still problems but I think it's a step in the right direction.
    What do you think?

    super work

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,583
    edited December 1969

    bigh said:
    joeping said:
    View the animation on YOUTUBE.COM by clicking here.

    Thanks for the comments.

    This is my second experiment with Dynamic Hair applied to a genesis Figure in Carrara 8.5 Pro. I just simply replaced the Motion Capture from my last experiment with a Dance Aniblock converted to a NLA clip in Carrara and then ran the hair simulation on all the wig parts.

    There are still problems but I think it's a step in the right direction.
    What do you think?

    super work Agreed! :)

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    That is looking fantastic. One of the better simulations I've seen. When you get a chance, could you post some of your settings from the hair room?

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the feedback.

    All hair objects are medium thickness
    Crown Hair Settings: Length: .35, Hair Count: 2000, Root: 50%, Hair: 20%, shape: 1%, damping: 50%, Density: 1
    Front Hair Settings: Length: .20, Hair Count: 1000, Root: 50%, Hair: 25%, shape: 1%, damping: 50%, Density: 1
    Back Hair Settings: Length: 1.0, Hair Count: 2000, Root: 20%, Hair: 10%, shape: 1%, damping: 100%, Density: 1
    Sides Hair Settings: Length: .50, Hair Count: 2000, Root: 20%, Hair: 10%, shape: 1%, damping: 100%, Density: 5

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the info. How many joints in the hair and guide hairs?

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited January 2014

    Sorry I forgot to include them.

    Crown Hair Settings: Segments per guide: 10, Guide hairs: 100;
    Front Hair Settings: Segments per guide: 4, Guide hairs: 100;
    Back Hair Settings: Segments per guide: 4, Guide hairs: 100;
    Sides Hair Settings: Segments per guide: 10, Guide hairs: 100;

    Also here is the link I used as reference for the wig [ http://www.headcovers.com/wig-construction/ ]

    I hope this helps a little. I'd love to see how they work for others.

    Post edited by Joepingleton on
  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    No worries! Thanks for posting the information! I'm sure it will be very useful to people!

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited December 1969

    View the revised animation on YOUTUBE.COM by clicking here.

    Thanks again for the feedback and comments. After having to describe the settings I decided to render another simulation.

    This is an updated version of my previous experiment. The only difference is that I changed the air damping to 100% and density to 7 on the crown and front of the wig to smooth their simulations. Its a subtle change but I think it improves the simulation.

    What do you think?

  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    joeping said:
    View the revised animation on YOUTUBE.COM by clicking here.

    Thanks again for the feedback and comments. After having to describe the settings I decided to render another simulation.

    This is an updated version of my previous experiment. The only difference is that I changed the air damping to 100% and density to 7 on the crown and front of the wig to smooth their simulations. Its a subtle change but I think it improves the simulation.

    What do you think?

    still good work - like them both

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited January 2014

    Very nice work again.

    Have you tried it with a slower series of movements, such as a walk?

    Post edited by evilproducer on
  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited December 1969

    View the animation on YOUTUBE.COM by clicking here.

    This is another experiment with Dynamic Hair in Carrara 8.5 Pro. I just replaced the motion capture NLA from the last experiment and ran a new simulation on the hair.

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Very nice! I don't notice the jitter that can be a real problem in animations with slower movments.

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145
    edited December 1969

    Good job on these, it is notoriously difficult to get right but you've done some good work here!

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited January 2014

    View the animation on YOUTUBE.COM by clicking here.

    Thanks for the nice comments and encouragement.

    This is another experiment with Dynamic Hair in Carrara 8.5 Pro. In this experiment I used PhilW's Lo-Res V4 Proxy Figure from ShareCG instead of spheres for the hair collision. Then ran the hair simulations for each wig part.

    PhilW's Lo-Res V4 Proxy Figure made a world of difference, it allowed for quicker/better simulation. Also this animation only took 7 sec per frame to render.

    There are still problems but I think it's a lot closer to the hair silhouette I have been looking to achieve.

    What do you think?

    sneakHair01.jpg
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    Post edited by Joepingleton on
  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    same to me

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited January 2014

    View the revised animation on YOUTUBE.COM by clicking here.
    I know I need to get a life, but I had to try the dance NLA with PhilW's Lo-Res V4 Proxy Figure as the hair collision target. I think it's my best result so far. What do you think?

    Also I wanted to try some cloth simulations on her cape, but I couldn't get the soft body dynamics to work on the night watch cape (the cape for the clothes she is wearing). Has anybody had success with or some tips on using conforming figures cloth simulation in Carrara?

    Cloth01.jpg
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    Post edited by Joepingleton on
  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited January 2014

    View the animation on YOUTUBE.COM by clicking here.

    This is another experiment with Dynamic Hair in Carrara 8.5 Pro. This is my first attempt at simulating collision with the hands and the hair.

    Cloth02.jpg
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    Post edited by Joepingleton on
  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145
    edited December 1969

    joeping said:
    View the revised animation on YOUTUBE.COM by clicking here.
    I know I need to get a life, but I had to try the dance NLA with PhilW's Lo-Res V4 Proxy Figure as the hair collision target. I think it's my best result so far. What do you think?

    Also I wanted to try some cloth simulations on her cape, but I couldn't get the soft body dynamics to work on the night watch cape (the cape for the clothes she is wearing). Has anybody had success with or some tips on using conforming figures cloth simulation in Carrara?

    There must be something about that dance sequence and dynamic hair!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLn1DQmsR6U
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Zvirp1Jtg

    As you can see, I have tended to use Marvelous Designer for clothes animation, Carrara's soft body dynamics are just too flaky to rely on..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AfC6s5ocH8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOvH6VNpib8

  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,945
    edited January 2014

    Phil, on “Carrarator”, I also put to him the link of your old post with your “goldens rules” for the clothes simulation : http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=164968&highlight=golden+rules

    Post edited by DUDU on
  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited January 2014

    Thanks for the feedback and the links, they look very useful.

    Marvelous Designer looks like they way to go, but since this is just a hobby the monthly fee may be a little much. Maybe I just need to find some clients that want 3D =)

    Post edited by Joepingleton on
  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145
    edited December 1969

    I know what you mean, I have Marvelous Designer 2 and haven't upgraded to version 3 due to the charging regime (and limited new features to be honest). MD2 still gives me most of what I need.

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited December 1969

    Thanks Phil, I feel the same way about what Adobe has done. I make a living using their products, but I like to own my software not rent it =)

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    The dance moves with the conforming proxy objects look very good. The fingers going through the hair isn't quite there. Kind of looks straw-like.

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited December 1969

    Thanks to everyone for all the feedback and comments on these experiment. They are very valuable and encouraging.

    I am disappointed in my results with the first fingers in hair experiment, but I knew it wasn't going to be easy. Sometime you need to discover how it doesn't work to know how it does work.

    I couldn't use PhilW’s Lo-Res V4 Proxy Figure as the hair collision target because it didn't have fingers. This experiment was using the Genesis object as as the hair collision target and all the "wild hairs" returned. I am thinking of making some low res spheres and trying it again (unless someone has a better idea). I'll let you know how it works out.

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited January 2014

    View the animation on YOUTUBE.COM by clicking here.
    This is a quick lighting test of my previous experiment.

    Thanks for looking.

    View the original experiment on YOUTUBE.COM by clicking here.

    This is another experiment with Dynamic Hair in Carrara 8.5 Pro. This is my second attempt at simulating collision with the hands and the hair. This time I removed the hand from PhilW's Lo-Res V4 Proxy Figure and replaced the hands with 6 spheres per hand (palm, thumb, index, middle, ring, pinky).

    The results look promising, what do you think?

    fingers02.jpg
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    Post edited by Joepingleton on
  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,145
    edited December 1969

    Still not perfect but a definite improvement I'd say!

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