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Infinite Reflections between two parallel mirrors.

CA415CA415 Posts: 165
in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)

I've created two planes with mirror surfaces.

When I place them in parallel, facing each other, I would expect them to produce infinite reflections as the image is bounced between the mirrors.  However, for some reason (see attached image), only two levels of "bounce" occur.  As you can see, when the third level of reflection occurs, the mirror is black.

How can I resolve this probelm?

MIRROR REFLECTION PROBLEM.png
1626 x 962 - 2M

Comments

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,537

    need to know which render engine you are using and if ray tracing is set to infinite

    path length in iray

  • CA415CA415 Posts: 165

    So sorry I forgot to mention that.  3Delight is the render engine.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,537

    ray depth path bigger the number the more reflections 

    I found an old 3Delight thread

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16927/how-to-make-a-mirror-reflect-question-about-reflect-me-prop

  • CA415CA415 Posts: 165

    Sorry, again, I hit enter before answering the second question!  In the propertes, I have raytrace set.  The only options for Reflection Mode are Raytrace or Environment Map.

    2019-10-14 13_23_06-DAZ Studio 4.12 Pro - !!!-Empty-2019-Medium Figure-Figure Height-4.duf.png
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  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,537
    edited October 2019
    Colin said:

    Sorry, again, I hit enter before answering the second question!  In the propertes, I have raytrace set.  The only options for Reflection Mode are Raytrace or Environment Map.

    I don't use 3Delight (or DAZ studio for that matter much) so not the best one to answer but that possibly refers to the background

    @RichardHaseltine would be able to help you better

    (cannot tag him damnit as has a two word username)

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Colin said:

    Sorry, again, I hit enter before answering the second question!  In the propertes, I have raytrace set.  The only options for Reflection Mode are Raytrace or Environment Map.

    You need to go to render settings editor/sampling and increase max raytrace depth. However you won't be able to get infinite number of reflections, try something like 16, see if that works for you.

  • CA415CA415 Posts: 165

    Thanks to everyone who responded.  Based on the above link, it appears that the 3Delight render engine is incapable of rendering "infinite" reflections between mirrors.

    Too bad.

    Maybe Richard will weigh in and provide a solution.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,042

    Honestly, I don't think ANY rendering engine does infinite reflections; it's just a matter of how much is enough for your purposes.

    In Iray there is Max Path Length, IE: Bounces, which is by default set to -1 or infinite. You can set it to some other number if you want, but I recall vaguely that there is an actual internal limit no matter what (I don't remember what it is)

     

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    edited October 2019

    A sphere between two reflective planes at raytrace depth 64. Don't make the mirrors perfect (as in physically impossible), let the reflections fade away like in real life.

     

    image

    Raytrace test.png
    1280 x 720 - 698K
    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,475
    Oso3D said:

    Honestly, I don't think ANY rendering engine does infinite reflections; it's just a matter of how much is enough for your purposes.

    In Iray there is Max Path Length, IE: Bounces, which is by default set to -1 or infinite. You can set it to some other number if you want, but I recall vaguely that there is an actual internal limit no matter what (I don't remember what it is)

    Well, there is a limit for sure in that when the path is sufficiently attenuated Iray takes that as a final value - no mirror should be 100% efficient. I would imagien there is a hard, numeric bailout to - otherwise the first path might take infinitely long to calculate.

  • CA415CA415 Posts: 165

    I really appreciate all of the feedback!

    I'm experimenting with the "max raytrace depth" setting.

    Yes, I understand that "infinite" is unattainable in any render engine, but I'm just trying to avoid the "black box" effect as much as possible.

    I'll post back when my testing is finished.

  • CA415CA415 Posts: 165

    Wow!!

    Thanks, Sven!

    Unfortunately, the Ray Trace Depth of DAZ Studio 4.12.0.86 (latest production release) only allows a value of 32, but, with a modified camera angle, I'm satisfied!

    Renders attached.

    Thanks, again, to everyone for their help.

    2019-10-14 15_42_37-DAZ Studio 4.12 Pro - Max Ray Trace Depth.png
    663 x 588 - 65K
    MIRROR REFLECTION PROBLEM-RESOLVED-MAX RAYTRACE DEPTH SET TO 32-2.png
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    MIRROR REFLECTION PROBLEM-RESOLVED-MAX RAYTRACE DEPTH SET TO 32.png
    2612 x 962 - 4M
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Colin said:

    Wow!!

    Thanks, Sven!

    Unfortunately, the Ray Trace Depth of DAZ Studio 4.12.0.86 (latest production release) only allows a value of 32, but, with a modified camera angle, I'm satisfied!

    Renders attached.

    Thanks, again, to everyone for their help.

    Looks cool:) I clicked the little cog wheel in the upper right corner and set limits off for raytrace depth, btw;)

  • RayDAntRayDAnt Posts: 1,147
    Sven Dullah said:
    Colin said:

    Wow!!

    Thanks, Sven!

    Unfortunately, the Ray Trace Depth of DAZ Studio 4.12.0.86 (latest production release) only allows a value of 32, but, with a modified camera angle, I'm satisfied!

    Renders attached.

    Thanks, again, to everyone for their help.

    Looks cool:) I clicked the little cog wheel in the upper right corner and set limits off for raytrace depth, btw;)

    Yeah, based on my testing with "Use Limits" deselected you can get up to 250 before Iray gives up.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    RayDAnt said:
    Sven Dullah said:
    Colin said:

    Wow!!

    Thanks, Sven!

    Unfortunately, the Ray Trace Depth of DAZ Studio 4.12.0.86 (latest production release) only allows a value of 32, but, with a modified camera angle, I'm satisfied!

    Renders attached.

    Thanks, again, to everyone for their help.

    Looks cool:) I clicked the little cog wheel in the upper right corner and set limits off for raytrace depth, btw;)

    Yeah, based on my testing with "Use Limits" deselected you can get up to 250 before Iray gives up.

    laugh...quite impressive actually!

  • CA415CA415 Posts: 165

    Thanks, Sven!  Another splendid idea - simply uncheck the 'limits' checkbox.  The years are catching up with me, and I didn't think of that!

    When I tried to push the limits up to 711, however, nothing significant happened.  It appears that the 3Delight Engine cannot resolve beyond 32 iterations.

    In the render attached, you can still see the 'black box' beginning at iteration 33 even though the limits are set at 711.

    So, with the correct camera angle, this can still work beautifully!  

    Thanks, again.

    MIRROR REFLECTION PROBLEM-RESOLVED-MAX RAYTRACE DEPTH SET TO 711 - 3DL ENGINE CANNOT RESOLVE BEYOND 32.png
    2115 x 962 - 3M
  • Doc AcmeDoc Acme Posts: 1,153

    As your discovering, CG isn't reality. wink

    I'd suggest just do it with compositing.  You might want to rewatch the original Limitless for those sequences where it's a similar effect of endless zoom in.

     

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,537

    I bet if you render a png that black box is transparent and you can pop a resized layer of your original behind it

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