Where does RAM disappear with Daz Studio?
martinkeitel_e65f08430a
Posts: 83
I've had lots of crashes with rendering, mostly the errors refer to the dz3delight.dll. However, now I'm trying to render a scene with the Merlin church and a different error comes with the crash.
The difference is that now sometimes DS actually warnes about low memory. Since the church uses loads of highres textures, I thought it makes sense. So what I did, I scaled down the texture images to 25% (50% width and height). It sitll complains about memory:
"The renderer encountered a memory error and the program has become unstable."
If the render crashes, I get this:
DAZStudio.exe caused UNKNOWN_ERROR in module "C:\Windows\system32\KERNELBASE.dll" at 001B:753A812F, RaiseException()+84 byte(s)
The texture maps, although there are dozens of them, aren't really very large at all after the scaling. Also, I have the RAM monitoring in the background and according to it the usage of RAM never exceeds 45 %. So if it is a memory issue. where is the black hole that sucks up the memory and why isn't the use of memory seen by the monitor?
Also, I just made several large scale renders of the witch house with full size textures, backdrops, uberenvironment. I would assume it definitely used more memory.
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Comments
I would be slightly suspicious about the health of your memory chips - have you run a memory tester?
once your render crash the program close/exit without clean the daz Temp folder!
-
check your daz temp render folder and delete all manualy.
or
- restart the daz,
- LOAD the same scene (do not render)
- NEW (clear the scene)
- EXIT Daz
now restart your daz and load your scene and try to render.
I went to the memtest.org website and downloaded the bootable binary. But I didn't quite understand how to use it. Do I need to make a bootable disk with it or copy it into some boot sequence? I didn't find instructions on the website, it seems to assume the user has some more indepth knowledge about the computer. I would appreciate advice on how to run it.
At times it does seem to be a hardware problem, yet I have never any such issues with any other software, including rendering with another 3D program or processing very large image files. Would expect hardware problems to show up somewhere else, not just with a single program.
Thanks for this, I've alreayd had this advice from someone else. I've changed the temp folder to another drive and many times cleaned it manually. Also I've tried that procedure of loading the scene and closing without rendering. It has helped with the crashes that give the error message of access violation in the dz3delight.dll module. In this case it doesn't help.
I was able to make renders of the church scene with full-size textures before. I added two grass objects from the ecomantics system and after that I encountered the memory problem. I accepted this because apparently the ecomantics objects are very memory consuming. However, after removing the grass objects, saving, exciting and reloading the scene and even scaling down the textures of the church, I won't get another render to work.
It seems that either
A) There is a physical problem with the memory sticks . In this case I would expect the scene to render sometimes, sometimes not . In this case the render fails systematically each time.
B) Something piles up somewhere after the RAM limits are reached and the first crash happens. After that the crash reoccurs until somehow that "blockage" is released. This pattern has happened many times. The render fails systematically with a specific scene until for some reason (for example making some seemingly unrelated changes with the scene or settings of DAZ stuio) it works again and keeps working for a while.
I went to the memtest.org website and downloaded the bootable binary. But I didn't quite understand how to use it. Do I need to make a bootable disk with it or copy it into some boot sequence? I didn't find instructions on the website, it seems to assume the user has some more indepth knowledge about the computer. I would appreciate advice on how to run it.
At times it does seem to be a hardware problem, yet I have never any such issues with any other software, including rendering with another 3D program or processing very large image files. Would expect hardware problems to show up somewhere else, not just with a single program.
Memetest needs to be run from a floppy disk or CD or DVD or USB drive. you will need to reboot to that device and it should start automatically, you don't run it inside Windows, you boot into the program from a cold start or a reboot out of Windows.
this site is old but the methods should still be the same
http://www.wikihow.com/Test-PC-Ram-with-MemTest86
if the issue is not the stability of the RAM then the issue could be with a Windows update, or some other program running or a change in the Studio code from the last update that for whatever reason has a bad time with your configuration. If you are running 32 bit windows and have more than 3GB RAM are you running the 3GB switch in the OS to allot more than 2GB RAM to a single application? Are you running something other than Studio when you attempt to render? Have you tried the stand alone 3Delight method of rendering which removes a running version of Studio and frees up a butt-load of RAM? When Studio is using 50 or 75 or 99% of your RAM and you go to call up 3Delight to render it's a separate process and it does require it's own RAM that becomes dedicated to Studio in addition to the amount it needed before you called 3Delight up to render.
This problem has spanned two versions of Windows and more than one version of DS...
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/35640/
I have the same issue with the 32 bit version of Studio and Windows. The 32 bit version crashes when it starts using 1.2 GB of memory as viewed from the Windows task manager. Are you using a 64 bit version of Windows? You'll need to use the 64 bit version of Daz Studio 4.
To use memtest...
Download the file in the first picture and unzip it to a folder/desktop.
Then burn the indicated file (second image) to a CD as 'a bootable image' (This process varies depending on optical disk burning software, but there is often a context menu addition allowing a right click/burn option.)
Once the disk is complete, leave it in the drive and reboot. If your computer is set to boot to the optical drive, then it will boot to memtest, instead of Windows. If not, then you need to hit the BIOS hot key to bring up the boot menu or change the boot order, in the BIOS itself.
Thanks for all that advice, guys. I have a 32 bit system and running the 32 bit versio of DS. And I thought that with Win7 you don't need to use the 3 Gb switch, only with XP. Anyway, as discussed in the other thread, it is not a matter of AMOUNT of memory since the crashes do happen with very simple scenes as well. Or rather I would say there are TWO causes for the crashes, one that is related to shortage of memory and other that is something else, as these two situations also give clearly their unique error messages.
I will do the memtest and at least that will confirm or rule out one explanation.
Memtest exist in windows system (since Vista)
The windows start propose it after real memory error in boot menu
If not proposed you can found in config parameter panel
About memory access violation
Again in the system exist a solution
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-system/windows-7-freezes-and-application-crashes-memory/2ad4775d-d097-4402-83db-6d8ede0d4fe0?msgId=2209e35a-1944-4831-90ad-6d5f94134e3e
also, you can use microsoft support
Driver verifier exists in Windows XP and later; but, memtest does not come with Windows Vista or later. Memtest is a separate download from a website not owned by Microsoft. Or are you referring to another memory test program that I am not aware of?
lol
It sound like joke,,
Since I post for support in the discussion after one hour i got this!
DAZStudio.exe caused ACCESS_VIOLATION in module "C:\Program Files (x86)\DAZ 3D\DAZStudio4\dz3delight.dll" at 0023:629330A7, Dz3DelightDll::DSlo_DetailtoStr()+1574279 byte(s)
Nothing change in my computer (for long time) and after post i was in work and render more than 30 screen
Just before 10 minutes I reload last scene, do small changes (pose)
And I click on render button....
next:
i reboot my PC, clean Daz temp
reload the same scene and render.. no error..(the mystery remain)
NOTE:
I just noticed the error message about x86 path !!!
is strange because i run the x64 version!
:-) integrated system memtest called "memory diagnostic tool"
no need to download any third party free tool.
no need to create any boot CD, diskete, USB
no need nothing than Windows.
Vista
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/how-do-i-know-if-my-computer-has-a-memory-problem
W7
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/diagnosing-memory-problems-on-your-computer
Vista/W7/W8 is the same for all (visual way to memory diagnostic tool)
http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/UploadFile/6cde20/start-memory-diagnostic-tool-in-windows-8/
or video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6goeVrWPxDA
I had XP on the PC and when i got Vista CD in the first install he crash and the next boot the vista CD propose me to run memory diagnostic tool
I check yes and he found memory problem
The same day I got new memory (previous was in guaranty) and vista install successfully
note:
due to my choice, the option "run memory diagnotic tool" are always in boot menu on normal mode and in safe mode
note 2:
the tool also proposed in the REPAIR menu of the Windows CD
There is a very distinct ADVANTAGE to using a diagnostic tool OUTSIDE of Windows...and that is, it REMOVES the chance of Windows being the problem and directly tests the hardware...which, more often than not, is what is needed.
And what if you don't have a Windows CD?
Most systems DON'T ship with one, these days...you do have an option to create one, but many people don't...
-
Common men, you try to convince me about what it give Windows is a crap !?
- you forgot to mention about user who don't have internet! ;-)
anyway, CD or not, even on partition or preinstall (market PC)
The memory test is available in any use since Vista
in case of forced download and you want to "jungle" with creatin a boot device CD, Disk, USB and made change in bios
you can try to download the original tool
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2008.09.utilityspotlight.aspx
most of Microsoft tool are always found in download by Microsoft or Microsoft partners!
RIght... After many many efforts trying to have my computer boot from CD and running memtest (trying all sorts of adjustments of the BIOS), I resorted to the windows memory checker (thanks cm). After two passes, no problems found. Must say didn't expect anything else.
Got one successful render of the church scene. How? After loading the scene and closing it (without rendering) I clicked YES when prompted to save changes (although obviously *I* had made no changes to it). When opened again, got the attached render with a plane in the background and uber env turned off (so very dull lighting). And some very fishy raytraced shadows on the plane... what's that?
After that removed the plane, turned on uber. Got a nice looking 600 x 450 pix render! Changed size to 1600 x 1200 - CRASH. After that, with only windows, no software running, 45% of RAM in use. Restart DS, reload scene, save, manually clean temp folder. Still 45% in use. After fresh start of Win, about 30% in use. Now after another crash, 50% (with only google chrome running). After cleaning the memory with advances system care (and I have also cleaned the system thoroughly with it), still 48%. What stays in the RAM and why can't it be removed???
And more. With the original church scene, with almost double amount of objects, before rendering, optimizes about 40 images, then crashes when render window opens. Wit the stripped down scene anything between 40 and 85 images to optimize, with no changes to the scene and an empty temp folder. Why do the unused texture maps stay there???
If it wasn't for others testifying something else, all this would point to bugs in DS or the 3Delight engine.
- Why do the unused texture maps stay there???
it's normal, if the daz crash the clean temp fail!
is the reason why i propose to delete manualy all files (include folder)
normaly restart and exit daz also clean the temp, but not uncomplete/bad files created with a previous crash
Q: do you delete all file in daz render temp?
Q: do you update the UBER env? (via DIM)
on render setting, try the perspective view (what you see on screen)
Yes, I delete the files in the render temp... although I don't understand why one or two images saved on a different partition of the hard drive could cause any problems.
What is DIM and why should I update the uber environment?
DIM = Daz Install Manager
when main basic files of DAZ are update (or bug fixes) is in the download list of DIM
sometime we can found updates with just 3 kb :-)
if you don't use DIM, check on your profile product list and download manualy
you mean the render picture created by render?
if yes, that is not the Daz Render temp folder is the "render library"
render temp "path" is selected via preference menu "F2"
at the same page where path for DSON is listed
you mean the render picture created by render?
if yes, that is not the Daz Render temp folder
render temp "path" is selected via preference menu "F2"
at the same page where path for DSON is listed
Yes, I've assigned the render temp and the DSON paths to a different partition. I clear the root folder which sometimes has a bunc of these tdl files and then the render and renderalbumtmp folders. The textureconvert folder is always empty.
Just cleared the tdl's, it didn't realease any RAM.
I'll check the uber env update. The crashes don't seem to have anything to do with uber though, unless it really gets too memory intensive. For example the church scene crashes without the uber env as much as with it.
If I read your post correctly, you are saying that Daz Studio is still using memory after it crashes.
You can attempt manually free the memory by terminating the program after studio crashes. Open the windows task manager by pressing the AL + CTRL + Delete keys. Click the process tab at the top, the look for DazStudio.exe unit the "image name" column. Then click the button called "end process" on the lower-right corner of the task manager.
In the task manager, you can also see how much memory Daz Studio uses. If the memory use reaches 1,100,000 K or above, then studio will likely crash.
Hope this helps. Sorry I couldn't help out more. Good luck
Edit: hopefully someone else can answer your question about the strange shadows. I have no idea why the shadows look like that. Maybe the light is pointing the wrong way? Have you tried rotating the lights so that they point in another direction?
Additional information about what is using memory can be had from other Windows tools. (caveat, TBH, I can't remember if Resource Monitor is available in Windows XP or not ... it's been SOOO long since I used that OS noww :P)...
Open Task manager and click on the Performance Tab. At the bottom should be a button for Resource Monitor.
On the RM window, click on Memory to see what processes are using your RAM and a breakdown of how it is being allocated. The details of whether it is Shareable or Private, etc. is important as is the number of Hard Faults being generated.
Some screenshots shown below.
The mention of hard faults made the think ...
mkeitel, you haven't manually changed the virtual memory (pagefile) settings for your computer have you? And, if not, how much space is available on your C drive?
I'm here again...
I've managed to make many successful renders of scenes with no characters in them (buildings, environments). Now trying to render Aiko with hair and clothes (or even without them), I keep bumping into this same situation:
DAZStudio.exe caused ACCESS_VIOLATION in module "C:\Program Files\DAZ 3D\DAZStudio4\dz3delight.dll" at 001B:5ECA0A21, Dz3DelightDll::DSlo_DetailtoStr()+1498881 byte(s)
What is always same here is this part: dz3delight.dll" at 001B: - including this 001B.. This is a systematic error always in the same place.
I managed to run memtest (in addittion to the windows memory checker) and verified there's absolutely nothing wrong with my RAM sticks.
I get many renders, then after the first crash, I have lots of crashes. I have to keep restarting the program, reloading the scene, exiting (saving changes or not) and if I'm lucky I get one render, then crash again.
Then, without knowing what I did, for some reason the crashes stop for a while. It's really annoying when you don't know why.
Apparently when rendering large resolution images, the crash-situation emerges quicker. This really points to something piling up somewhere - but where? It's not related to the availabe RAM, it's not related to what's in the temp folder. It's not related to whether I use uber lighting or not. But it's something.
Try to render with a lower bucket size to see if it is memory related
That could be your Antivirus or Microsoft's DEP so configure your AV not to scan DS directories and completely disable DEP http://www.door2windows.com/how-to-disable-data-execution-prevention-dep-in-windows-7vista/
From my experience DS 32 bit used to crash a lot (with the same errors as you) whereas DS 64 bit was stable on my system. I don't know if that is still the case with current builds but the problem may be the same here
I solved the problem finally!
I will post it as a new topic.
How's about a link to the solution... maybe?
problem was "UBER" env in old scene!
the user remove uber lights and use another set of lights
problem was "UBER" env in old scene!
the user remove uber lights and use another set of lights
mkeitel wrote a full description in the DS4.6 Render crash solved: Uber environment thread.
In a nutshell .. there was an older version of UberEnvironment in the scenes which would cause the crashing to start happening.
The solution was to update UberEnvironment (using DIM).
Jaderail also shared a tip about adding recently updated items (especially plug-ins, lights, shaders, etc.) to an empty scene and saving the scene to refresh the files stored in the data folder structure.