Long Island Mansion Lag
david_23523141
Posts: 40
Hi All,
Just installed Long Island Mansion from Collective3D. https://www.daz3d.com/collective3d-long-island-mansion
Once loaded into Daz Studio 4.12 the scene and Daz become catastrophically laggy to the point of unusable. Once the scene, say the Long Island Mansion preload, is loaded, the camera rotation, zooming, may be reasonable responsive a few moments but once any viewport setting is changed, even in the direction of hidden line, the Windows spinning wheel appears and thereafter Daz is basically non-reponsive. It takes a minute to even exit the program and may require a forced quit. Saving the Long Island Mansion project scene file seems to take a particularly long time to do so. Again, no other current Daz program I have even the very large scenes are anywhere near this laggy and strange.
I ran through all the usual suspects in terms of troubleshooting Daz settings to see if it could be a PC/Daz performance issue. I attempted just loading the house with no terrain or trees, no help. Loading the Long Island Mansion preload or loading just the house both result in extreme lag. I say "lag", but the Daz interface delay goes beyond lag, the interface itself becomes unresponsive, buttons do not respond, spinning Windows10 blue waiting wheel, a white screen of near death from Daz with the message "DAZ IS NOT RESPONDING" and waiting 10 minutes does not bring the Daz interaction back to life. I tried restarting the PC. I tried turning Daz preferences down to basic performance and all the way up to max performance, adjusted the iRay settings to Optiplex on, off, etc. No Daz settings adjustments seem to make a difference. During the troubleshooting I opened other previous files and other files load OK and have normal, quick response.
This is a large file, however I have loaded, as an example, Urban Future 5 and have set the preview window to iRay interactive render and have had the ability to move around the scene with iRay going at about 10FPS, with wire texture shaded selected in Urban Future 5 giving very quick, fluid camera control response. So, a comparable large complex scene responds fine whereas this Long Island Mansion seems to be DOA. I have done quite a bit of troubleshooting here and really have no further ideas how to solve unresponsive Daz performance with this product. Troubleshooting Log File is attached.
Thanks in advance for anyone who can offer insigt or share their experience with this product.
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Comments
Hey David, I feels your pain.
It's an absolutely HUGE model as you've noted and sounds as if you've already tried any suggestions I'd be able to make. I pretty much export all of my Daz assets into Lightwave (more control + the Daz interface infuriates me) & even with a semi maxed out Boxx Apexx T-3 system, it's pushing the limits: 64 cores & 128MB Ram & dual GPU's, but the Daz performance is similar. I haven't even propped the scene out yet with furniture, etc., but not having anywhere near as bad issues as you're describing. In a wireframe mode, I can move around easily at least. I completely relight & surface anyway, but might have to try a different approach lighting. These renders are taking ~ 1 hour.
There are a number of stupidly exessive geometry items in the lighting fixures & I've been removing those. I mean, why would you need a fully modeled CFL in a fixture that has frosted glass enclosure? I appreciate the attention to detail, but still...
Haven't fully tackled the chandelier yet.
Anyway, the exterior foliage is the culprit for the mostpart (way more polys than the Mansion itself) so will probably render that out as a bg image. I'll be using interior views over exterior anyway.
BTW, had to fix the big tree in the front yard as it was floating out of the ground.
Unfortunately, I'll be away from the main system for a couple more months so can't test things. Maybe some other owners will reply with some suggestions.
the whole set is grouped so you can simple shut off whats not needed. If you are rendering on the first floor you can shut off the second floor and a buch of other stuff very quickly in the scene tab
HEY DOC,
Just the kind of reply I was hoping for, I really appreciate the detailed response and you attaching your renders. First off, your renders are extremely photorealistic, especially the exterior daylight shot. This inspires me to fiddle with the the scene a bit more. Great work on those renders, just top notch.
Its good to know you find the scene slow and laggy on your beast of a machine as well. You having a similar experience leaves me inclined to think this is just a massive, laggy file even pro machines will choke on. I own Cinema4D and Redshift, and I have done figure exporting from Daz to C4D, however converting all the iRay shaders to RS shaders is not fun. With Long Island Mansion, I really like this scene and might try exporting to C4D as I could then use some of the volumetric lights and other more advanced features in C4D. BUT... I really like the simplicity of Daz and iRay, so this would be my last resort as I can use a Zdepth canvas render out of iRay into Adobe AfterEffects for a final comp similar to C4D lights.
So, I''m going to open up Long Island Mansion again tonight and see if I can reduce the lag somehow, maybe alter the nodes that can be adjusted from within Daz, I'm open to suggestions.
I see what you are saying, I did not understand the first time reading. Indeed shutting off groups of interior nodes is possible, thanks for this.
Yeah, that one's a beast. The house alone maxes out my 8GB GPU and 32 GB system RAM, then falls back to CPU rendering. Most of the memory is in the bitmaps, so reducing texture resolution will get the most savings. Many are 4K, but that is way more than is needed for wide shots. There are a few available scripts (free and $$) that can reduce the size of the bitmaps that are used. Just cutting them all in half will drop the memory requirements to 1/4 the original. Removing things like Normal maps from surfaces would also have a big impact, also on render times.
This thread might help out: Reduce texture sizes easily with this script. There are several other threads discussing how to pack more into your system's available resources.
For commercial products, check out V3Digitimes' Scene Optimizer and Map Manager, or SimTenero's Iray Memory Assistant. 3D Universe's Daz Studio 4 Scene Tools Set 1 and Set 2 would help speed up the workflow.
UPDATE:
Guys, I talked directly with the creator, Collective3D who was nice enough to message directly with me regarding Long Island Mansion. The lag is just the sheer size of the file as many have suspected and pointed out here on the forum.
So, this is good news and bad news. The file is not corrupted the good news, but one must find a way to tame the beast when first opening up the house. The most obvious is to just muscle through the lag and delay best you can with your PC and begin turning off nodes one by one that you do not need. Especially turning off the exterior foliage until needed etc.
I'm still open to suggestions and perhaps this is a good ongoing thread to address dealing with very large scenes in Daz in general, since well, this is a VERY LARGE SCENE.
Wow, this is a alot of information! excellent, mucho gracias. So glad to see all the responses here, I'm relieved to know others had similiar issues, so knowing this I can plow into turning off nodes and reducing the scene size.
After talking to Collective3D, reading the great comments in this thread and experimenting for two nights I have a few observations on Long Island Mansion as follows.
SCENARIO ONE:
For a super fluid response of the house with interior nodes turned OFF and terrain ON but with tree foliage turned OFF, the primary viewport is set to iRay using the GPUs. So the entire scene and textures are loading up into the GPUs, into the CUDA cores and the performance and response of moving the camera POV around is very fluid. This is using drawing/ interactive mode. IF I try to switch the primary viewport mode from iRay to say wire texture shaded, moving camera is very very sluggish and the system becomes laggy. Switch the viewport back to iRay and it is fluid again. Now, if I then try to turn ON foliage, Daz crashes. I assume the house and terrain and then with foliage ON is too much for the GPU total memory.
SCENARIO TWO:
Into rendering settings, into advanced tab, and down to the INTERACTIVE settings (leaving Photoreal with GPUs on) and turn off all the GPUs for INTERACTIVE draw and leave only CPU checked, I can again load up the house (with inside nodes OFF) load up the fence and load the terrain. The camera rotation, zoom, pan are surprisingly responsive and the iRay preview is reasonable to begin the iRay RT preview. The RT preview is not as fast as the GPUs, but moving the scene around is equally as responsive as GPUs ON. When I turn ON foliage node, Daz DOES NOT crash. With foliage ON the rotation, panning, zoom is far more sluggish, but usable. I assume with CPUs doing the iRay render or screen draw, common DIMM memory now acts in the place of VRAM and we have much more RAM than VRAM in most cases. I monitored the GPU loads and there was no GPU memory loading of scene once CPU interactive draw only was checked (as one would expect).
SCENARIO THREE:
Turn the GPUs back on for interactive draw and uncheck the CPU box. In primary viewport turn mode to HIDDEN LINE. In Aux Viewport, select same camera and same mode HIDDEN LINE, or wire outline or box outline so Aux Viewport demands no additional draw load. This will provide a fluid response moving camera around scene. The house, terrain, fence and folliage can all be ON and Daz will not crash. No other preview mode will provide fluid response, not even a simple wire shaded. Hidden Line offers best responsiveness. With this option however, we have no realtime iRay preview. If we want to see the scene in iRay we must hit the RENDER button and wait for a proper render.
I was pleased to find a mode in which I can turn on the foliage and possibly add more and still move around in the scene reasonably and see what I'm doing and click Daz interface buttons with no system lag. Obviously if you are working on terrain and foliage and characters, the responsiveness will increase if you turn OFF the house node temporarily.
One way to work around lag when you are not sure where it's coming from is use the Parameters tab to position models in the Long Island scene instead of the viewport. I'm not good at guessing which numbers to type in the translate & rotate x,y,z for models to move so it takes me a while to guess correctly but I still manage to guess, guess, guess faster than my 16GM RAM CPU rendered computer can handle the gizmo manipulations in the viewport. Another example of lag I handled by using the Parameters tab to position instead of the viewport is the Howie Farkle's Harpwood Trail product.
I noticed that the house is rendered in Iray, even when it's hidden. Could it be the source of the problem?
I never loaded this before ...
OMG
it crashed Twinmotion and 3DXchange ran out of memory after using all my RAM and VRAM on both
just the house ...
Doesn't surprise me any, walking through these "houses" in real life is enough to cause brain lag too lol.