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Lux material metal2

Marmalade BoyMarmalade Boy Posts: 103
edited December 1969 in Technical Help (nuts n bolts)

Hi there,

I have searched the forum trying to figure out how to apply a simple color to the Metal2 material. I tried the Lux forum but not may Daz users over there. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I have been trying to plug in an image file in this field (LuxRender Matel2 - nk) in the Metal2 options but it's not working.) I am just trying to get a blue color...I also have an image file I would like to use.
In blender this can be done using the Reflection color but in Daz, there is on such option. The first image bleow is from blender and the second is from Daz, does anyone know how to changed the color?

Thanks!

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Comments

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,504
    edited December 1969

    You can use the shiny metal material to achieve what you want. It has virtually the same properties, but also accepts pure colours as opposed to fresnels.

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  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Also, what U/V roughness values are you using in DS. I've noticed that very small values tend to be 'white', no matter what color the metal is supposed to be. A perfect reflector would reflect all light...so the closer to a perfect reflector you go...I've found that 0.01 may be too low a value for some metals to show much color. Most of the metals in this image I had to go to something between 0.1 and 0.05 to get them to show color...and most were rendered a bit higher than 0.1.

    What is the 'test color.nk'? Is it one you made in Blender?

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  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 7,232
    edited December 1969

    Marmalade Boy said:
    I have been trying to plug in an image file in this field (LuxRender Matel2 - nk) in the Metal2 options but it's not working.)

    It won't, LuxRender's metal2 doesn't work like that. Instead of an image, the "nk" parameter takes a set of data of the actual behaviour of light beams hitting the atoms on the surface of a chunk of the physical hold-in-your-hand metal. You'll only get a colour if that data is right for a metal like gold or copper (bronze, brass and other coloured alloys are similar but more complicated). The LuxRender wiki has a link to a forum where there are several threads discussing nk files and links to archives of them.

    Note that this is a complicated and very technical subject, if all you want is a shiny metal-like surface it might be easier to start with using the "shiny metal" material instead, as mentioned upthread.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    You should be able to copy the relevant information from the Blender material file...or, I think Luxblend can do it, export a custom NK fil, and put it in the 'extra settings'. Like whatever the line for reflection color is.

  • Marmalade BoyMarmalade Boy Posts: 103
    edited December 1969

    Thank you all for your responses...

    HeraldOfFire

    Your idea of using shiny metal material is one I considered but I didn't really like the look of it.

    mjc1016

    Test.color.nk is something I downloaded from the Lux forum and renamed but either it didn't work or I am using it wrong. This site (http://www.luxpop.com/RefractiveIndexList_v2.html) has tons of nk files but I can't figure out how to use them...any thoughts? Once of them must have a blue tint..I am willing to try them all, LOL

    Spottedkitty, you seem to know your way around nk files, can you offer any insights?

    Below is a test of the costume with displacement, bump and Normal mapping. I am not concerned with the poke thoroughs as it's due to the displacement...I will adjust for the final. The metal arm ban and the little bit on the upper arm is what I would like to be blue. Of course it's way to reflective.

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  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 7,232
    edited December 1969

    Marmalade Boy said:
    This site (http://www.luxpop.com/RefractiveIndexList_v2.html) has tons of nk files but I can't figure out how to use them...any thoughts?
    The file names are all short-form names of the metals, alloys and compounds used to produce the nk data, with variations for different alloy mixes and crystalline structures (which affect how the light bounces off the surface). It helps if you can remember some of your school physics and chemistry, or if you're a metallurgist in your spare time. :smirk:

    All you need to do is add the LuxRender metal2 settings to your material, leave the "Preset" parameter at "Fresnel File", and in the "Nk File" slot plug in the nk file you want to try. Note that the default "Roughness" U and V values of 0.001 are unnaturally mirror-smooth and shiny, which can affect the colour. Anything above 0.8 is likewise unnaturally flat matte, so keep it within those limits for a realistic metal.
    Spottedkitty, you seem to know your way around nk files, can you offer any insights?


    Not really, I know how the things work in principle, but I wouldn't know where to start debugging a dud (and these archives do include a few dud files). I've been at this for a few months now, and I'm still only beginning to get my head wrapped around Luxus; I just get pretty good results now and then. I'm not always sure how, or why...

    As for that superhero outfit, it's looking very nice. To fix the metal, try bumping the Roughness values to something above about 0.1 — but I don't think you'll get a proper "blue metal" unless you use the Shiny Metal Luxus setting.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited February 2014

    I never noticed a blue in those nk files...any of them.

    But in this thread...

    http://www.luxrender.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5891&start=30#p62087

    patro uploaded a set of nk files for anodized aluminum.

    But, there seems to be errors in them...I've got corrected versions, plus a couple of other colors...

    So which one/ones are the 'duds' you are having trouble with? Some of the 'duds' have way too much information...like a couple of hundred or more lines in the nk file, most of which is outside the visible spectrum. The way Luxrender processes the nk data is such, that eventually the 'dud' will actually correctly color (no telling how long it would take, but a very long time), unless it can't actually process the file at all...and most of those have a simple fix. I've taken some of the other 'duds' and edited them down to the visible spectrum only (plus a little on each side IR/UV) and they work much better. Also some of them are for 'thin films'...which when used on a solid material will always give very different results.

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    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • Marmalade BoyMarmalade Boy Posts: 103
    edited December 1969

    Thanks again, both of you. I tried both methods but for some reason the file I downloaded did not include a blue but a blue purple. Which rendered as purple, no blue to be seen. I like both looks (Metal2 and shiny metal) however, I will have to mess about with the roughness for shiny metal to get the look I am after. I wish the metal wasn't blue purple but true blue. mjc1016, how did you get the ball in the back to the right to be mostly blue?

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  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited February 2014

    Marmalade Boy said:
    I wish the metal wasn't blue purple but true blue. mjc1016, how did you get the ball in the back to the right to be mostly blue?

    The blue is 'celest'...

    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 7,232
    edited February 2014

    mjc1016 said:
    So which one/ones are the ‘duds’ you are having trouble with?

    I was wandering through the LuxRender forums a while ago and came across a mention of the occasional dud, plus links to archives that had the duds noted. Not sure why they weren't fixed, maybe they were set up like the ones you mentioned upthread.
    Post edited by SpottedKitty on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    SpottedKitty said:
    mjc1016 said:
    So which one/ones are the ‘duds’ you are having trouble with?

    I was wandering through the LuxRender forums a while ago and came across a mention of the occasional dud, plus links to archives that had the duds noted. Not sure why they weren't fixed, maybe they were set up like the ones you mentioned upthread.

    There's only one that I know of that isn't fixable...at least in the Sopra and Luxpop libraries...the rest of the 'duds' are fixable...

    I've got a couple of 'goodies' that I will be releasing...something that has been wanted for a while, at least when it comes to nk files... ;-P

  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 7,232
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    I've got a couple of 'goodies' that I will be releasing...something that has been wanted for a while, at least when it comes to nk files... ;-P

    Do you realise how uncomfortable it is to sit on eleventerhooks...? Release away, I'll be here waiting.
  • Marmalade BoyMarmalade Boy Posts: 103
    edited December 1969

    OK...here we go, I tried the blue but it's lighter than I thought it would be. The first image is unaltered. The second one I made a layer mask for in Photoshop and overplayed the blue I wanted. I think I will need to do this for my final image as I can't get the blue that I wanted straight out of the program.

    All I have to do now is work on the hair, skin, Shoulder pads, interesting pose background, lighting and adjust the belt. I am sure I will be back with more questions. :) This was suppose to be a 2 week project but hey that's why it's called a hobby....

    Thank you once again!!!

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  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,504
    edited February 2014

    Marmalade Boy said:
    OK...here we go, I tried the blue but it's lighter than I thought it would be. The first image is unaltered. The second one I made a layer mask for in Photoshop and overplayed the blue I wanted. I think I will need to do this for my final image as I can't get the blue that I wanted straight out of the program.

    All I have to do now is work on the hair, skin, Shoulder pads, interesting pose background, lighting and adjust the belt. I am sure I will be back with more questions. :) This was suppose to be a 2 week project but hey that's why it's called a hobby....

    Thank you once again!!!


    What you can do is create a Fresnel on the fly using Lux's own in-built tools. Using the texture command, you can actually create a custom fresnel based on either a texture or a simple color. Just plug it into Luxrender 'Extra commands' and it'll render using whatever settings you've supplied. This is also fantastic for using metallic textures which may have been supplied with your figures or model.

    To give it a demo, create an object with only Extra settings on the surface and paste this into the "Extra Settings" box.

    Texture "blue_fresnel" "fresnel" "fresnelcolor" "color Kr" [0.05 0.05 0.9]

MakeNamedMaterial "bluemetal"
 "string type" ["metal2"]
 "texture fresnel" ["blue_fresnel"]

NamedMaterial "bluemetal"
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    Post edited by Herald of Fire on
  • Marmalade BoyMarmalade Boy Posts: 103
    edited December 1969

    HOT DAMN!!!

    Incredible! You just made two days of me banging my head against a wall all worth it. Is there a color chart out there as you know of? I Googled it but couldn't find anything (not even sure I used the right parameters).

    I tried changing the numbers (color Kr" [0.05 0.05 0.9] and got interesting results. It looks odd as some of the numbers that I used were completely arbitrary. You mentioned using a texture to drive the color, is there a string of code for that as well? Below are my test results.

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  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,504
    edited December 1969

    Marmalade Boy said:
    I tried changing the numbers (color Kr" [0.05 0.05 0.9] and got interesting results. It looks odd as some of the numbers that I used were completely arbitrary. You mentioned using a texture to drive the color, is there a string of code for that as well? Below are my test results.
    I might have spoken too soon on using textures. While it should theoretically be possible, it seems Lux demands a constant value for the fresnel, so variable fresnels, as you would get using a texture, aren't possible. My experiments to load in a texture to convert to a fresnel just resulted in it ignoring the fresnel completely giving me a default aluminium look.

    That's not to say you can't fake it however. Using a mix material, it's possible to blend different metallics, giving you the possibility of different colour sections of metal.

  • Marmalade BoyMarmalade Boy Posts: 103
    edited December 1969

    Yea... I was doing some testing of my own. The normal, displacement and bump maps were not rendered when I used it on all the blue areas in the model.

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  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    HeraldOfFire said:
    Marmalade Boy said:
    I tried changing the numbers (color Kr" [0.05 0.05 0.9] and got interesting results. It looks odd as some of the numbers that I used were completely arbitrary. You mentioned using a texture to drive the color, is there a string of code for that as well? Below are my test results.
    I might have spoken too soon on using textures. While it should theoretically be possible, it seems Lux demands a constant value for the fresnel, so variable fresnels, as you would get using a texture, aren't possible. My experiments to load in a texture to convert to a fresnel just resulted in it ignoring the fresnel completely giving me a default aluminium look.

    That's not to say you can't fake it however. Using a mix material, it's possible to blend different metallics, giving you the possibility of different colour sections of metal.

    Depending on what you are wanting to do, mix will probably be the best...but a mix material is not all that easy to build in Luxus. Metal2 will be faster to render than either a mix or shinymetal. If possible, tweaking the fresnel file would be preferable to get the color 'right'. Also in that thread I linked, where the nk files for the anodized aluminum are, is a link to an rgbtonk converter. It is a little finicky (like don't use number/sliders when adjusting...but the arrows on the bars), but will make usable colored nk files. Just don't expect the results to be 100% the same as the original color...especially with 'pure' colors.

    Also, you can use greyscale maps in the U/V channels as control/strength maps. This can give a mottled/brushed/scratched appearance.

    Now...a little OT, but related...I mentioned earlier about having some new nk files.

    What I have is 3 hand-built brass files that I made from data published by the US Army, sometime in the 1980s. I also have a bronze that is hand-built from data done in conjunction with a digital restoration of an ancient bronze artefact, a second bronze that came from a couple of graphs where I guessed the actual values (probably not very accurate, but looks pretty good) and am waiting on word about being able to share a couple of others. There are several others that I've transcribed, from raw data, including a copper that is different than the 'default' copper or the included copper nk file, a working iron, hematite and magnetite.

    My original plan was to release these as a set of metal presets for Luxus, but I'm kind of busy with other projects, so I'll probably package up just the nk files and put them up on ShareCG, sometime over the next few days.

    (PS: really OT: I really love Klipper the built in KDE clipboard tool...I thought I lost this post...but Klipper saved my butt!!!)

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Marmalade Boy said:
    Yea... I was doing some testing of my own. The normal, displacement and bump maps were not rendered when I used it on all the blue areas in the model.

    Displacement between DS and Luxrender is kind of tricky...Lux is in meters and DS is in cm...so you need very tiny amounts (0.001 'base' amount = 1 mm).

  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 7,232
    edited December 1969

    Just the nk files will be great. I'm still struggling in places with this stuff, but I can experiment on my own with the other parameters to get (eventually!) a result I like. Thanks!

  • none01ohonenone01ohone Posts: 862
    edited December 1969

    If you want to add a colour to the Metal2 material, generate an NK file using Tinman's 'RGBtoNK'

    There's a link on this page:
    http://www.luxrender.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5891&start=30

  • Marmalade BoyMarmalade Boy Posts: 103
    edited February 2014

    Hey none01ohone,

    I saw this when mjc1016 suggested I have a look at that page but for some reason, I completely overlooked it; I can save the color now. However, there is no reflectivity. I see that there are setting for that and absorption but I don't know what I am suppose to plug into the fields.I tried using the same RGB settings but when I render the file, it completely black. Any ideas? The below is not my RGB colors but I used that as a test; the color I want is R:33 G:33 B:204.

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  • none01ohonenone01ohone Posts: 862
    edited December 1969

    Just used your colour and it worked ok. Did you select Fresnel, when I tried it first I don't remember if it was selected automatically.

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  • Marmalade BoyMarmalade Boy Posts: 103
    edited December 1969

    Sorry none01ohone, that was my fault. I just picked any light in order to test it and I guess something when wrong. I just did a test with the Luxus sky 2 light and it worked. Here is a quick test. Once again many thanks, I will be sure to post my final image once completed. Another question if I may. Recently, whenever I add a Lux material to my item (example, metal2) I get all the other materials as well. I am only selecting metal2 and copy studio parameters; it's driving me crazy...

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  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Marmalade Boy said:
    Sorry none01ohone, that was my fault. I just picked any light in order to test it and I guess something when wrong. I just did a test with the Luxus sky 2 light and it worked. Here is a quick test. Once again many thanks, I will be sure to post my final image once completed. Another question if I may. Recently, whenever I add a Lux material to my item (example, metal2) I get all the other materials as well. I am only selecting metal2 and copy studio parameters; it's driving me crazy...

    You've probably got 'Show Hidden' turned 'on' in the little drop down menu for the Surfaces...

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