New PC build for DS with a Ryzen
Second Technician Rimmer
Posts: 484
I built my current rig in 2011, basing it on a I7 2600K processor. No, I feel it's time to crank it up and since I am not rolling on gold, I thought "Since AMD has made quite a leap with Ryzen's, why not?"
After looking into the whole thing, I am considering a Ryzen 3700x on an appropriate Asrock mobo (one not requiring a bios update) and keeping my RAM count at 32go in ddr4 instead of ddr3 of course.
I would keep my GTX1070ti since I bought it not so long ago. Would that kind of setup fare well with DS? Any potholes I should be weary of? I really don't know since this will be my first AMD in eons and I haven't exactly kept an eye on the whole AMD/intel differences regarding 3D rendering and stuff.
Any good advice would be very welcome :)
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I thought that AMD doesn't support Nvidia Iray which is why I stayed with CUDA/Nvidia technology. Unless of course, something has changed in the last year that I haven't kept up with which is quite possible. Regardless of how awesome this AMD GPU is, renders will fall back to the CPU if there are not enough VRAM to hold entire scene and since CUDAs are used by DAZ's IRAY then NVidia may be the only game in town if you want to render with DAZ Iray
I would like to know the answer to this too, I suspect AMD does not interface with the CUDA API but I would love to know if they do now into the future...
I have an AMD Ryzen 7 iray works fine for me. I think you may be getting CPUs confused with GPUs. I have an AMD CPU but a Nvidia graphics card.
Scorpio, thanks for confirming this for me. That will confort me in my choice. Pfunkifize, indeed Scorpio's right, it's a CPU matter. Iray being an Nvidia thing, Iwouldn't go any other way for the GPU. AMD GPU are fine if you're going to use other things than DS of course, as long as you don't go for DS and iRay... and it'll work brilliantly too. I bought my GTX not so long ago anyway so no way I'll fork more money for a graphics card ATM :)
Yeah, I use a ryzen 2600x, it works great with DS other than rendering. No CPU can compete with a GPU when it comes to rendering. Well, you could go nuts and get setup that has a boatload of cores/threads, but it would be more bang for the buck to get a decent GPU than go that route.
I would say, on my expoerience just now, that the default AMD cooler - while possibly adequate - is noisy due to its being a small fan, so if noise bothers you I'd look at including a third-party cooler (this is with a Ryzen 3900X, though, so your CPU may be different).
Indeed, Richard. If I go air cooling, it'll definitely be Noctua. My rig has run all these years on a set of Noctua's which never ever cavitated or failed and are quite silent. If I go AIO watercooling, it'll be either thermaltake or maybe a NZXT Kraken. My case being a Level 10 GT Snow Edition from Thermaltake, I can put pretty much whatever I want inside... it pays to plan ahead.
The 3700 justifies good cooling too. It can be shipped with a stock cooler that's better than the usual basic by AMD but in case of overclocking, it probably won't cut it.
I am so. Looking. Forward. To. Launch. This. :D
For most tasks the 6c/12t CPU's, like the 2600 and 3600, are perfectly adequate. The higher core count CPU's aren't really needed for DS unless you intend to do a lof of rendering in 3DL.
If you use blender or premiere or pretty much any professional grade software more cores will help but there is a tradeoff of increased costs if you're not making money off it.
So I'd recommend the 3600 unless you have a strong need for more cores. There are lots of B450 and X470 motherboards that will work fine with it, just make sure you get one that says on the box that it is Ryzen 3000 ready (or Zen 2 or whatever they ad actually says) if you're buying the 3600. If you plan to keep this new machine for 8 years or so you might consider the X570 boards instead. The major difference between X570 and X470 is support for PCIE gen 4 (which is twice the speed of PCIE gen 3 which is what other motherboards have right now). The only devices that really use it are m.2 drives, you need one specifically labeled PCIE gen 4. But in 5 or 6 years graphicas cards will support it as well and might even make use of the extra bandwidth.
Ryzen IME is pretty cool but these new 3000's have a lot more cores at the high end and that means more heat. If you go 3900x or 3950X I'd at least consider a better air cooler or a 240mm, or larger, AIO.
The weekend between xmas and New Years I have a shift at the datacenter. I'm thinking I'll install win10 and DS on the dual 7742 rack we're validating and see what 128 cores and 256t do to an iray render. Should be good for some laughs, the rack has been putting up SPEC CPU and Specviewperf numbers that make the Xeon's we have look very sad.
Oh man, if you could add that to the benchmark thread, I think a lot will get a kick out of it lol
Ah ok!
Yes, I was confusing the new AMD as a GPU. I happen to have an intel based CPU.
Yeah I built my rig in 2007 and using a 1080TI as my GPU with a Pentium something as my CPU, I forget now because it has been so long so I hope that my renders never fall to my CPU because of the heart attack it induces on the old CPU lol. I've built all my PCs myself to save on the money but it looks like I will have to buy a new mobo to change to a CPU to anything resembling modern today... But as long as my 1080TI GPU holds out, I will be see how long my little 'Bessie' CPU holds out before I need to change her...
In my opinion your i7 is fine for daz studio, since the single core performance is not bad and daz studio doesn't use multithreading too much. Then if you keep the 1070 as well I don't see much reason to upgrade. I mean daz studio + iray performances depend mainly on gpu + ram. Then a good ssd helps with scene loading times.
That thing must really chug doing anything. Those things were 2c without hyperthreading running at around 2 Ghz. Modern processors have at least quadruple, if not 6+, more processor threads and double the clock speed.
If it works for you great but when you upgrade its going to be a shock.
Intel requires a new motherboard for pretty much every new generation of CPU. AMD has been better about that but that Pentium is on a very different socket from anything made in the last 10 years or so.. The Pentium had 775 pins and modern ones have 1151
I'm building a new PC right now too and initially I was going to go with an 8 core / 16 thread Ryzen 7 2700 at $169 until I realized it's single core performance was only about what my 7 year old laptop i7-3630QM runs at, for real.
I realized then that would probably leave me disappointed to spend so much money building a new PC only to have the performance of my 7 year old laptop for most compute activities. It's then I decided that I would settle for fewer cores and threads but faster single core performance in the AMD Ryzen 5 3600. This cpu's single core performance is about 50% faster than my 7 year old laptop and last year's Ryzen 7 2700 (or is it 2600?). The Ryzen 5 3600 will give me noticeable speed improvement on most compute activities compared to what I'm used to now. It costs only about $30 more at $190.
Since I started building my PC in earnest I've been watching pricing and supply of these components and since the beginning of November the Ryzen 5 3600 has taken over as the top selling CPU on Amazon US so I'm far from the only one to realize that CPU is the best performance for us folk on really tight budgets. It's currently sold out at Amazon US but I can't buy til January anyway so maybe I'll get a good return deal or something.
My motherboard is the cheapest B450 chipset with WIFI that can be bought (it's by Gigabyte). I got it for $72 but I may have to request a Boot CPU on loan from AMD to update the BIOS. That's a free favour service from AMD but it's a huge slow hassle so I'm hoping I won't need to. After update to the newest BIOS though it will support the new AMD Ryzen 9 3950X with 16 cores and 32 threads with a 105 TDP. For that CPU I'll probably buy the heat sink like Richard & the rest of you have bought although the price makes me cringe. If the becomes cheap enough in a couple of years I will upgrade to that CPU but otherwise my desktop PC is pretty much set for a decade. I only need wait till a PCIe x16 GPU comes out from AMD or nVidia that can do 4K realtime raytracing of 30 FPS of an average 32GB DAZ scene. Not much to ask!
Such a video card will come about (eventually) but isn't here yet so I've a bit of a wait for such a GPU.
? Not even the R7 1700 was that bad. The 2700 has higher clock speed and ipc than a last gen laptop (except for the ones that use actual desktop CPU's. comparing a 2700 to a 7 year old part is ludicrous. The R7 will handily beat the absolute top of the line Intel desktop CPU from that long ago, much less the mobile parts.
In 2012 you were likely buying either Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge (or older which are much worse). The Sandy Bridge i7's were 4c/4t parts with base clocks of 2 to 2.7 Ghz. The Ivy Bridge were 2c/2t at 3Ghz or lower for the lower powered CPU's. The i7 2960XM (the best of those Sandy Bridge chips) gives an average CPU mark score of 7224. The 2700 averages 15,070.
Your 4k 30fps real time rays card is probabl;y farther away than the realistical lifespan of the components. The upper end of GPU's has just gotten to where 4k 30+ fps is attainable on pretty much all new games. The 2080ti can't even hit 60fps on Red Dead 2.
Oh for sure, in the morning when i get up, I turn on Bessie to start her boot routines and then I go make my breakfast. By the time I've made my food and eaten it, Bessie is ready to go. I checked for Xeon CPUs that are meant for rendering that were for sale on Amazon that actually fit my socket type and I found some - for only $90. LOL You know your PC is old when an upgraded CPU costs less than $200.
If you saw my PC you would laugh because the 1080TI fits perfectly but the side door for the PC can't close because the card blocks a groove where the door needs to get into. All the better though. The 1080TI gives off so much heat that I had to rig a desk fan to blow into the chassis to help the heat dissipate. Without the fan the PC shuts down after 10 minutes of rendering from heat exhaustion.... At this point after 13 years she's more like a loveable companion with sentimental value ;)
Yeah the day will come when I have to start fresh, gut her and put in new peripherals along with a new brain and RAM. Thankfully her case is huge and built for modular SATA hard drives and that's how I've been able to keep up with modern storage.
Xeon's probably won't go in your motherboard. There were lots of socket T CPU's they were not all compatible with all the motherboards. I would get an expert on that hardware, I'm not, to help you if you intend to buy a new CPU for that mobo.
A single 1080ti should not be causing thermal shutdown of the whole system. I think the most likely culprit is the thermal compound between the cpu and cooler. The stuff doesn't last forever. However getting the cooler loose to clean and reapply paste would likely kill the system so I'd leave it be. It's not like it has long to live either way.
It's definnitely a thermal compound issue. 13 years is way beyond the lifetime of any paste you would put in there. I'd recommend getting some good old Noctua paste, this thing has never failed me. For those who wonder what's best to clean off the old dried out compound, I recommend ArctiClean. One vial of dissolving fluid, one vial of neutralizing fluid. You spread a bit of the first on he dried upo paste, let it cure for 30 sec/1mn, wipe it with a soft tissue, repeat and then clean off with the second fluid on another tissue, very thoroughly. That second fluid will neutralize the mild acidity of the first fluid. Dry the cpu up with an other tissue, apply new thermal compound, et voilà. Of course you need to clean up your heatsink in the same fashion.
i have a ryzen 3950x with 16 cores and 32 threads, and Daz is still slow as hell with 1070 jetstreams in SLI, even when 8 cores run at 4.6ghz
as far as hardware info is saying, Daz only uses 4 core's maximum, when a G8 model is selected, and you drag another to replace it from the content library, and still takes 15 minutes +
Not every operation lends itself equally well to multi-threading.
You've got some other issue. I have a 2700 and just tried that and it took 12 seconds.
its not my problem, if i overclock all cores to 4.3ghz, i get 10052 in cinebench R20
Terragen 4 v4.4.44 free (Preview Paused) https://planetside.co.uk/free-downloads/terragen-4-free-download/
benchmark scene https://planetside.co.uk/terragen-4-benchmark/
4 minutes 40 seconds
it should do and divide the polygon total up, and spread them over all cores
or which operations? That won't be a productive approach for some things (which was my initial point).
all operations which require the progress bar to complete, while the back ground window is inactive
Then that is unlikely to be possible - not everything can be broken down into parts which can be handled by separate threads and put back together at the end, let alone be faster when split down into threads and put together at the end.
That's simply not possible. Some tasks, such as loading a figure, involve I/O which cannot be parallelized.
As to cinebench proving your system works? I'll be nice and just say you need to get your system to someone who knows what they're doing. Just because the CPU works doesn't mean some other aspect of your system doesn't which it clearly doesn't.