Experts help me please, I could't recreate in rendering as the product shown T_T
turtle_s
Posts: 25
Could any expert tell me what have I done wrong or missing, many many thanks.
I brought :
CO Ichigo and Ichigo Hair for Genesis 8 Female(s)
https://www.daz3d.com/co-ichigo-and-ichigo-hair-for-genesis-8-females
I have try to render it in a way to get back the figure they shown but no luck, in the attachment shows an highly simular position and lighting, but I found that she does not look like/same as the promotion picture, I would wonder why? Have I done something wrong? missing any thing?
even the outcome looks not bad, but it looks obvious to me they are two different person, and also missing some feeling and soul, seriouly want to ask for advise from expert here, many many thanks in advance.
also, it would be great if Crocodile Liu could give advise on the parameters and such, so that I could recreate what they selling, many thanks in advance.
Finally, I would like to say, I buy a lot of models, they may be simularm but they can be differentiate in human sense.
I would expect it is easy for me to able to recreate figure especially on their face, if I unable to get the face I intended to buy, all my buying may mix up or duplicate, because they only have subtly little different
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oh, you may say just try to blur it, yeah, have done that, no luck, also have attached that for reference, you can tell they are different person
why I broder to post? Oh, because I was about to buy some other new product from them, I like it but ... ... what if I don't get what I see from what I buy, or also is good to found out: "did I do any thing wrong / missing anything?“ after so many years of using DAZ3D, many thanks to reading all these till the end, thanks again and looking for your comments.
%ps also wonder if it was render by other software, and I will never get it from Daz3D, if so should have tell me earlier T_T
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Comments
Lighting - your lighting is totally different to the promo lighting.
Also thats not blur its depth of field just blurring won't get quite the same effect.
Backdrop with backlight, wider angle or more distant key light to soften shadows, a fill light over the left shoulder (right side of pic) to lighten shadows and provide highlight, depth of field on camera F stoppped to the eyes. Pretty damn close though. See what you have as far as morphs on the tie as well.
trust me , I have try lot of different lighting, the main point is, she does not look like no matter how I try, any way I could post a dof pic
I did try more backlight(enironmental light) and more left light, I can post it here, mo morphs I used except open mouth and lip a bit, I will do a DOF and post it here, thanks for the comments
In this pic comparison, I have added lot of thing as suggested:(plz be patient)
a big back light (a large vale of parallel light at the back) which have effect at all (obviously 180 phase not light up unless transparent )
50% up environment light (don't think it helps) if too much will not same as original
Left light up 100%, well... still same persons. You may calibrate by her hair , but face is what I am care for
Cam! Most important part, I now put it very far 1000 away, make the focal length so unreal = 650
Add Dof rather bur Focal Distance = 990 right in front of her face f stop as default 22.
Conclude, 1) no feel, 2) she is not her
(Surely left light don't have that much, please see her left noise )
Thanks for you two comments, I am very thank you ????????????
problem for me is, I have a very strong feeling that she is not her, even i I like both. but for the render I had is 100% Daz feeling, which I could get from other daz offical models. what they shown is another feeling which I couldn't get from Daz Offical stuff, that was the key .... worth to buy, but no luck for me, may be my skill not good enough........ my daz 9 years effort wasted.............
apart from the feeling, if you llok close to the phyical geomatry, the A. ratio of face is different, the eye shape is different. mouth, hard to say... I could not fit that. Chin , surely different...........
lucky, I didn't even show it in my job, I honestly could not reproduce it. don't tell me I have to adj. 10 or more morphs by guesting among thousand of morphs, I have got, if so , I don't need to buy, I could make one myself by the morphs.
The whole purpose of buying is to save time! anyway, I still wonder that picture is not rendered by DAZ3D T_T
First while the promos say rendered in iRay they do not say no postwork was done. It is entirely possible the PA took the renders into PS and added the DoF effect there.
Second the camera angle is different and therefore the images will look different no matter what else you do.
Third the facial expression is different. The original has a more open mouth (you can see more teeth).
Fourth the jaclet is a different color. That means the light reflected off of it will be different.
BTW Anyone know if that pocky stick is a product? I've messed around with making one and never got it to my satisfaction and would like to see if that one comes out any better.
Why do you want to exactly replicate a promo image anyways? Isn't the point to make your own art? From looking at it, one thing, the head angle is not exactly the same. Another thing, the promo image, I think the "pixel filter radius" in the filter render settings is a little higher than what you have it set. It makes the image rendered look a lot softer, and less detailed.
They may but there are plenty of recent promos that certainly look like they were adjusted outside DS. And it is fairly common to see the disclaimer that no postwork was done, strongly implying that other promos do.
I'm not an expert when it comes to lights. When I see the promo I think I'm seeing the results of an environment map being used for light to shine through the windows and provide some backlight. Lights from a distance produce a softer light whereas sharp pin lights will produce the sharper shadows. Obviously there are additional lights and yes, it is amazing the difference lighting can make.
I think Daywalker Designs has answer you, personally I don't mind to have some PS, please see the top picture, I do a lens blur in PS, no luck
how different is the camera angle? I have play arround and try many times. I think the image will look different only for large angle different, I am sure here the angle is 99%+ right
I obviously try open more, still..... do you notice the face shape is totally different
hey, come on, are you joking me? I could't post a nuded here right? also reflection of cloth is not doing much, especially, it is black T_T, please be .......... ok?
Come on, I see the promo, and I buy, and I expect I got same thing I see in promo, ok ?
yes, I can, so I don't need to buy at all, the point paying the money to buy so much is save up my time, ok?
how different is the camera angle? I have play arround and try many times. I think the image will look different only for large angle different, I am sure here the angle is 99%+ right.
tell you one more thing, there is impossible to be exactly the same angle! even from the neck to head, there already 3 x 3 angles need to handle, ok?
if you tell me I have to match that lottary to get what I wan t, how come other product don't need!
have you look ate my 1st post / 2nd picture, I did set pixel filter, and even put it in PS to blur it , pixel filter is very simular to blur, and I right?
please correct me if I am wrong, and the post processing in PS (i.e. blur) give more flexibility, that mean can adjust without re-render.
many thanks Daywalker Designs
It seems to me like that, but problem is I couldn't reproduce that even PS it. So, I just wonder, if .... may be..... Daz can not do such kind of things, they may render it in Maya, or even Blender cycle. anyone know? or anyone know how they making it? (already try DOF on #6, no luck)
in my test, I already use enironment map + distance (parallel) light already, lighting can make differnce, I agree, but not if the lighting is so closely match.
if you think my lighting is differernt, please see post #6, + post #1 you can see that the light part under left eye is show up, it means the lighting angle is more or less the same, and the level of enironment map also adjusted to fit the left face brightness.
so, if you say different, may be I use Env + Para Light, they may use EnV light only, but I personally think Para light has no big diffent to Env at all (effect and quality - wise), please correct my if I am wrong, many thanks
to evenone, the key point is
1) I feel they are different person
2) never get their effect by Daz3D, even plus PS
2 main points ask for help, many thanks
(please check all pictures before comment)
One more thing I could think of, is that possible if I ask Daz3D as a middle man to check if that picture is make by Daz3D + PS only, so that I sure myself could get it if I work(study) harder. Even if I don't get it at the end, i admit it, that is problem of my skill.
But if I were missing some tool, I can buy it. i.e. Simply render it in blender, that saving me lot of effort to try, many thanks
Just looking at the image, I don't see anything that seems like postwork. I think you will have trouble making the image look exactly like the original since there are so many things you don;t know or don't have.
Thanks for your comment
in short,
Please see post #6
will get back to you in detail late
That may be the case but promos are and have been postworked for quite some time now.
I actually have brought it last sept & that product should have launched around 1and a half yr. I already noticed the difference since I brought.
as as I said before, I want buy more of their products even don't mind for the whole list they have, but just need to make sure I could reproducing it
You sure about that?
To get 'the feel' the lighting would have to be better matched. Perhaps a different environment map - and a window source for it to shine through providing backlighting - and/or whether that was a draw Dome or a wall behind her to catch/reflect the light. You know, to make the aura. Softer light - softer shadows - larger light from further away.
I took one of the sets of photos and overlaid your render at about 50% matching the ear. There is a small difference most noticeably about one of the eyes so possibly the head twist angle or ?
So, you suggest the flat env + parallel light not good enough to reproduce that image? I have to get their env map in order to reproduce the same effect? (Which is not provided, and most likely never able to remake one)
So which angle you would like me to twist??
You need to tilt the head sideways so the jaw-line rises up and the ears match. Then you need a softer light to get rid of the harsh shadows that you're getting across the face. Seeing both renders, I can tell it's the same character. But never underestimate how much different light vs soft light makes in the face. A perfect example to illustrate this can be found here:
I'm not an expert, but from what I see:
a) the color of the lighting doesn't match. The promo render looks like it has more yellow-ish lighting, while your render looks like it has more cold light temperature. Adjust the lighting color temperature, try maybye 5500 or something.
b) the shadow's softness does not match. If you use point lights, make them bigger (height and width 50 or 100, just try which one feels better)
c) your figure is poorly shaded from the right side. The lighting on her right cheek and ears doesn't match. Add a helper point light on the right of your figure and play with the intensity and temperature.
d) You won't reproduce exactly what is shown in the promo render unless you have the original scene file with all the lights and settings. You will NEVER get the lighting EXACTLY unless you use the same HDR map, set the camera angle, lens width and DOF EXACTLY like in the scene.... I get your point that you want to render what you purchased, but... is there any practical meaning to it?
Have you read post #6
The posts are not conveniently numbered you know, and coming across as being somewhat sassy doesn't exactly help your cause either. PAs are not selling their promos, they are using their promos to sell their products. Some PAs provide bonus lighting sets that they used in the promos, most do not. And you know, many have VERY expensive, large systems. Now a very small 2 door car might get a passenger to the airport on time the same as a long limo might; but the resulting trip will not feel the same.
One can find alternative hdr images to use in the render settings, environment section, many are available for free, for donation, and of course, for sale. As you experiment with different images you may quite possibly render out a superior image - one that you like better.
Iray likes LOTS of light ... light casts shadows. If you play around with a flashlight, your hand and a wall ... the closer the light is to object [hand] the crisper the edge, further away the shadow is softer.
Some of the other information on the Render Settings tab makes sense if you have any knowledge of cameras and lights, and yes each setting can make a big difference for the end result. When you find a group of settings that work to get the feel you want, you can save out Presets for render settings, as well as for light settings - the lights that are adjusted on the Parameters Tab.
And then there is a third type of light ... I love this one ... make a plane or sphere, on the Parameters Tab change the black to white and it's emissive. Change to "k" something and set the cutout opacity to something like 0.001 ... place said light so that it will shed light where you want it. To make additional lights, one can use the clone feature in D/S ... use the manipulator to find and reposition each one. It is not a good idea to have the actual light source mesh in the image unless it is totally hidden by other objects - sometimes renders out as funky pixel clouds if you do.
There are some excellent video tutorials by a Pro in this thread, one for lights here.
And I have my own contribution starting over here for lighting via the render settings.
It seems to me you have a wrong imagination about buying a product here. You just bought a girl and a hair, you've got a girl and a hair. You didn't bought a complete render creation/setting out of the box. Imagine you would buy a frozen turkey with a nice promo picture on the package what shows a beautiful thanksgiving table with a delicious fried centerpiece. Would you be seriously surprised and disappointed if your turkey on your table doesn't look the same like the picture of the food photographer? If you want exactly the promo pic with no differences maybe you should ask for permission to use it? You will never get the same result by your own. It's just a "serving suggestion" ;)! Btw, I think your replica is as near as possible without the knowledge of the used light settings/hdr/etc. Just more light from the right side and the main light much more softer...