Dress fitting and Genesis 2
Herald of Fire
Posts: 3,504
I recently purchased a very nice dress intended for K4 (Regency Dress) and wanted to fit it to Genesis 2. Naturally, I couldn't just rely on the autofit alone here, and using Genesis as a mid-way point resulted in a lot of ugliness. So, I took it into 3D Studio Max and altered it to fit G2F using the Youth morph from Zev0.
Now, I essentially re-modeled it on the morphed Genesis 2 Figure, and exported it as an OBJ. The problem is that I can't figure out how to reverse the child morph on the fit. Using the 'reverse source shape from target' option doesn't seem to work and so far every attempt has resulted in a super-dwarfed version of the dress.
This topic has come up before, and I'm certain it has an easy solution but I'm having trouble working out exactly what the problem is. Pictures provided to show the before-during and after of the autofit. Perhaps someone can figure out where I'm going wrong in my settings.
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Comments
I'm afraid you need to remove the scaling from the child shape before exporting it as OBJ to use as a mannequin for the refitting - as it is DS is applying the scaling from the morph to the dress, which already incorporates the scaling in the shape, so it gets doubled up.
I knew it had to be something simple causing the problem. Thanks a million Richard. I just need to clean up some of the distortion caused by the transfer utility now. It's looking a lot better though!
Seems I spoke too soon. The distortion seems to be created by the youth morph and youth posture morphs being doubled up. I thought the 'reverse source shape from target' was supposed to remedy that little hiccup? Am I wrong, or am I simply trying to go about it the wrong way?
I made a revised version, scaled up appropriately and with a few minor adjustments. It looks fantastic as long as I zero out the youth posture and youth morphs applied to the dress, but it's not particularly a practical way to go about it.
There should be no transforms (scaling, rotation or translation) applied to your mannequin, it should have only the mesh changes from the morph.
Never mind, I figured out where I went wrong. I set the target shape to 'current' instead of default, and it transferred reasonably well. Now it's just a case of tidying up the weight maps so that it fixes all of those ugly creases and applying a few custom morphs to fit other figure shapes :)
My apologies, but it seems I'm back to the drawing board again.
Autofit still seems to be automatically morphing the dress twice. It fits the dress onto the morphed Genesis figure, but then simultaneously creates a second set of morph targets which are dialled up with the figure. What I presume it's meant to do is reverse out the changes to the shape so that the created morph targets give the correct shape.
Scaling is no longer an issue thanks to Richard, but it's still double-morphed and I honestly can't fathom where the problems are arising. Here's a quick example of my settings and the problem I'm having. Note that the one which looks 'correct' is the one which has the Youth Posture and Youth Morph dialled back to zero. The base figure has these morphs active, so naturally I want it to look correct when these morphs are at 100%.
You shouldn't set the morphs on the dress manually, it's meant to be picking them up from the figure it is fitted to (and it appears to be doing so if I am following correctly).
The point I was making is that it doesn't look correct unless they're dialled out. In other words, it's clearly adding the youth and youth posture morphs to the fitted mesh twice. That means when they are finally dialled in via G2F morphs, it looks mangled.
So those settings aren't applied to G2F in the first image? I was confused if so by the screen shot showing settings for the dress. You need to bear in mind that the dress is now being auto-morphed to get from its base shape to the unmorphed shape (by the Transfer Utility) and then auto-morphed again to get to the applied morphs (assuming they contain deltas and not just transform adjustments) so it is bound not to be as good as the base shape. You may need a custom morph (for which you could try your original OBJ, if it had all of the scaling stripped out) to get good results, or you may need correction morphs if the settings are all or mostly transforms.
The settings were to show an example. If you notice, the image where the outfit looks correct is where the youth morph and the youth posture morphs are dialled back to zero. This makes it fairly clear that it's applying the youth and posture morphs twice. I'm not sure how else to describe it.
It's as if it's taking the mesh, applying the Youth/Youth Posture morphs as the BASE mesh, and then adding the Youth/posture dials on TOP of that. It then dials those morphs to 100%, which results in the distortions. It was my understanding that the idea of using the 'reverse source shape from target' was intended to prevent exactly this issue.
To test this, I've run it both with and without the reverse checkbox ticked. Both end with exactly the same results.
I've manually created a morph for the dress based on the basic G2F figure to avoid this issue with this particular outfit, but it would be useful to figure out where the hangups are if I were to create outfits in the future for the Youth figure. It's a lot harder to make good looking childrens outfits if you're using an adult figure as a base.
Incidentally, while I'm 'picking your brains' as it were, how would I apply a 'fix' morph to rectify issues in a mesh which resulted in more than one morph being used on the target figure? I know I can simply create a "Youth morph" and a "Youth Posture" morph, both of which I have done, but I get minor distortions when both are applied which I would like to iron out.
Why you set "current" for target ?
it simply cause your problem. I must set target "default"
when I use reverse shape option with mix morphs.
Actually I can re-build almost same thing.
if I set Current as target, I need to remove genearted morphs, to fit genesis2base shape.
I do not know, if it had been worked for you or not with your ds version.
but whenever I use the modeled obj as Target "Current",and use
morphed Actor , as Source "Current" with "reverse option",
The "Current target shape"will be recogniezed for zero morphed Actor shape.(genesis2 or genesis)
it should be wrong. because I made the obj shape for morphed Actor shape.
When the clothing "fit to" morphed Actor, ds should auto generate morphs to the clothing.
it seems ds transfer double morphs.
On the other hand, If I use modeled obj as Target "default", then use TU,
ds remove generated morph shape by "reverse option" from the target obj.
then it will be recognized for zero morphed Actor shape .it is right setting.
if both setting cause identical effect, there is no meaning to change setting for target.
No no no sorry. I mistake.
When I set Soruce morphed shape= "default" and Target = "current", with reverse option. (added last pic)
It make double generated morph effect. as same as your second pic.
I need to manually remove generated moprh, to fit morphed shape.
about other settinig, I can not re-build same effect.
did you try same test again with "Source current" and Target "default" or "current" ?
it should work how I mix morph.( judie, gia v4 or other morphs)
of course I need to set scale fit to default genesis2 100
when I test and get problem, I make SS to show what I did, I sometimes re-make setting only.
I think if you set TU as same as my pic, then when you make SS re-make right setting without intention.
Used these options. Same results. It's still doubling up on the Youth and Posture morphs every time I run the transfer. I'm sure I'm missing something here. Maybe it has something to do with the fact I'm using multiple morphs instead of just the one?
I am seriously sorry, if my reply take you more time ><;</p>
I have read all steps again , then I test my clothings export as obj,
then re-transfer with each option. I can not re-build your case, without my mistaked setting.
(I test eg stephanie 5 ,40% , and V6 50% etc,, then if it change scale of Actor,
reset Actor scale, then export obj, and transfer from the current shape character,,)
Then it is out of your question, but
IMO,, I usually do not use current option. and not make shape for two morphed character.
I sometimes make obj which can best fit for my character shape. but the character shape are saved as one morph.
(though I often need to re-adjust rigs, and expression morphs .)
then use it with reverse option,,
as you know, with reverse option, it not so fit well with base genesis(genesis2).
then modify it for base genesis(or2) shape, and re-import the best fit shape to overwrite
auto-generated morph.
If I model clothing for two or three mix morphed charactter,
as you have experienced, even though you modify good shape for geensis or genesis2.
your modeled shape are only fit well when you add two morph with each value.
you can not use it to overwrite generated morph.
After all, you need to re-modify two or three overgenerated morph which made your character.
I decide to get the ZEV 0 aging morph, ( I have not gotten it, I know his morph are really good though ^^;)
then will test it,, if I can find something,, I must tell you. it seems really complicated ,,
Seems that the Transfer Utility doesn't know how to cope with two morphs at a time. I ran the transfer utility on the Youth Morph only and it reversed it out just fine. The only issue now is that the skirt is horribly creased in the fitting process, though I suspect that may be largely due to the weight maps more than the mesh.
I believed so. (TU could recognized only one modify at same time. even though I use current option.
so that I thought Curernt option was not so useful for me)
I remember when I just use scene subset genesis, which change resolution level to zero,
and in old ds 4 version TU could not work with current option correctly.
I reported before in old manits. after that I seldom used current option^^;
And I have seen some users ask when they use "Current "with remove current shape option,
get problem, and genesis2 are often use two morphs at same time to make character.
it might cause some problem.
but about current public ds 4.6 version, I tested some case, it seems work with mixed morph, I think.
in my last pic, you can see I mixed morph. and if I set option correclty, it worked for me,,
I do not know there are some exception case about morphs. and when daz corrected the problem or not.
(I can not follow all ds version up-date logs ^^;)
Okay... finally got it nailed down I think. As mentioned, I ran the transfer utility to handle the Youth morph singularly, which reversed it out quite nicely but gave me the horrible creasing. So, to correct this I reloaded the same OBJ file as a morph using Morph Loader Pro to overwrite the one automatically generated by DS. I then gave it a unique posture adjustment to fix other minor issues along the way, again loaded as a morph to replace the existing ones.
And so, the result is below. It's poseable and workable, with the only catch being that I had fitted it as a knee-high dress which omits shin bones. I plan to add those in and redo the weight maps to fix all the remaining issues.
Phew... It's given me a whole new appreciation for PA's who regularly make clothing for dozens of figure shapes. Working across multiple morphs seems like a minefield of issues. I'm sure there's a simpler way to deal with them, perhaps with ERCs which automatically enable custom morphs in the outfit when certain combinations are applied. Either way, this has been rather educational and a fun little side project to boot.
To reiterate the point though, I didn't model the dress so it's just for personal use and cannot be distributed. My rather messy fixes would probably make the original artist cringe (Ravenhair), so I wouldn't even consider it as a potential update. Still, the methods and techniques used here will help me a thousand fold when it comes to designing my own childrens outfits, which is the plan.
I've come to the conclusion that sometimes if you want something done, you have to do it yourself. The end goal of this wasn't necessarily the dress (although having it on Genesis 2 is fantastic!), but more to understand the process so that there are fewer pitfalls when I work on my own. I have a mountain of projects which never really took off because I lacked the necessary skills to fulfil them so now I'm working on filling the gaps.
Thanks to those who offered help. In the end though I never did discover why the Transfer Utility can't handle more than 1 morph. That said, it's something to keep in mind for the future. Thanks again.
And people wonder why PAs don't do more 'multi-generational' products...
I've been experimenting with building custom morphs for clothing by exporting an unscaled version (100%) of the morphed Genesis to Blender and fitting the obj of the clothing item there. Then importing the fitted obj as a morph...seems to work ok for dresses and some hair...things that autofit tends to mangle. But haven't mastered the automatically getting those to load when the morph is dialed into Genesis...I know it's possible to do, but I just haven't played around enough to do it.
This process is how I was ultimately able to get the above results. I reloaded in the original mesh after fitting and replaced the 'Youth Morph' which was transferred from the base figure.