Saving different dforce simulations for each frame of an animation?

SnowSultan

Hi. Got another weird question, hopefully someone might have a decent answer. Also, and I'm sorry if I sound frustrated, but please read what I've already tried below before suggesting the same thing. That seems to happen every time I post a question these days.

 

I'm making a series of pictures which include a guy in a dforce cape that I need to simulate differently for each frame. However, the series is within a single animation timeline, where each frame is a separate scene with its own camera (think of it like a comic book sequence, but each panel is one frame in a 20-frame animation). Being in a single animation timeline makes it impossible to use a timeline play range for dforce simulation, and if I simulate in frame one for example, the same simulation is intact in frame 2, where the guy is in a completely different pose and requires a new simulation (which would clear the simulation in frame one). I can save the entire guy and his outfit as a scene subset to be loaded in later, but that will delete all of the keyframes that the guy already has throughout the full scene.

Is there a way to save the results of a dforce simulation like a morph or a pose that can be applied to the same dforce-compatible figure later? Thanks in advance for any advice.

duckbomb

My gut reaction is that you'll need to simulate in separate files, after each one exporting as an obj, importing each into the master file, and then placing the right file on the right frame.  Maybe something along those lines?  
 

Someone else may have a better answer, though...

Matt_Castle

You can either use duplicates of the cape and only have the correct one visible (although this can get pretty slow, as even though hidden objects won't be counted in the simulation, they still seem to calculate smoothing modifiers), or you can export a simulated cape as an OBJ, then reimport/use that as if it were a morph.

Catherine3678ab

Frame A has one pose, run the simulation and shoot the clothing over the bridge to Hexagon,

Frame B has 2nd pose, run the simulation, select the clothing and from Hexagon send the clothing item back over, make the morph. Running it to 100% should have it back to the figure on Frame A.

Zero the morph, select the clothing {in pose 2} and send that over the bridge to Hexagon, delete the previous import and renumber it to be the only one.

Frame C has 3rd pose, run the simulation, select the clothing and from Hexagon send the the clothing {from pose 2} to D/S, make the morph. Check it too.

I haven't tried all this with a cloak tbh, in a fast switch for the morph between frames I don't know how well that might work. Might need a few spare frames to edit out later?

{and as Hexie can be, well, Hexie - save the morphs {zeroed} as you're working on them, if there are many frame poses to do, there will come a point when 'nothing is working' as the communications over the bridge have what I call a seizure. Solution is to close both programs and start again.}

{and reverse deformations of course}

{when returning to Hexagon, 'validate' to continue working in it}

SnowSultan

Thank you, those are all excellent suggestions. Catherine's is way beyond me (I haven't had Hexagon installed for years), but they all sound like they could work. I'll probably try Matt's suggestion of exporting as an OBJ and then reimporting as a morph, but it probably will be easier in the end to just separate all of the frames into individual documents. I did it that way to be able to "onion skin" of sorts from frame to frame, but I've run into so many problems of limbs and props changing position between frames that it's probably best to just have separate scenes that allow full control of the timeline for simulations.

Much appreciated.

nicstt

SnowSultan said:

Hi. Got another weird question, hopefully someone might have a decent answer. Also, and I'm sorry if I sound frustrated, but please read what I've already tried below before suggesting the same thing. That seems to happen every time I post a question these days.

 

I'm making a series of pictures which include a guy in a dforce cape that I need to simulate differently for each frame. However, the series is within a single animation timeline, where each frame is a separate scene with its own camera (think of it like a comic book sequence, but each panel is one frame in a 20-frame animation). Being in a single animation timeline makes it impossible to use a timeline play range for dforce simulation, and if I simulate in frame one for example, the same simulation is intact in frame 2, where the guy is in a completely different pose and requires a new simulation (which would clear the simulation in frame one). I can save the entire guy and his outfit as a scene subset to be loaded in later, but that will delete all of the keyframes that the guy already has throughout the full scene.

Is there a way to save the results of a dforce simulation like a morph or a pose that can be applied to the same dforce-compatible figure later? Thanks in advance for any advice.

That's something I'd use VWD for; you can run a simulation on just a frame after doing a series in dforce, but it gets complicated doing what you want; when I wanted similar, I just gave up trying.

Catherine3678ab

SnowSultan said:

Thank you, those are all excellent suggestions. Catherine's is way beyond me (I haven't had Hexagon installed for years), but they all sound like they could work. I'll probably try Matt's suggestion of exporting as an OBJ and then reimporting as a morph, but it probably will be easier in the end to just separate all of the frames into individual documents. I did it that way to be able to "onion skin" of sorts from frame to frame, but I've run into so many problems of limbs and props changing position between frames that it's probably best to just have separate scenes that allow full control of the timeline for simulations.

Much appreciated.

Okay sorry, thought for some reason that you were also a user of Hexagon. Morphs can also be made exporting out/importing back in .obj files but the sizes for each have to be just right or nothing right happens. I think if you export out as daz size and import it back in as daz size the morph might happen.

Separate scenes would certainly be easier to manage.

 

Slartibartfast

Leaving other frames alone when simulating a single frame is one of my most wanted features for Daz Studio. My workflow almost always involves setting up a series of related renders in the timeline for batch rendering and easy modification, but dforce doesn't work well with this approach. I usually choose to replace the clothing (with visibility toggles) for each frame that needs to be simulated, but it hardly needs to be said how inefficient this is.

A simple checkbox to simulate ONLY the current frame while leaving the rest untouched would be a godsend.

Richard Haseltine

Slartibartfast said:

Leaving other frames alone when simulating a single frame is one of my most wanted features for Daz Studio. My workflow almost always involves setting up a series of related renders in the timeline for batch rendering and easy modification, but dforce doesn't work well with this approach. I usually choose to replace the clothing (with visibility toggles) for each frame that needs to be simulated, but it hardly needs to be said how inefficient this is.

A simple checkbox to simulate ONLY the current frame while leaving the rest untouched would be a godsend.

Do bear in mind that the results of starting from the partially simulated shape would not be the same as the original play range simulation, since there would be no record of the accumulated energy in the springs from the previous frame. That, as I understand it, is why we can't pause and resume a simulation or start it over from a mid point. Given that, if you did a partial resym in the middle of an animation you might get a jump in the frame after, due to the different drape in the isolated simulation.

Slartibartfast

Richard Haseltine said:

Slartibartfast said:

Leaving other frames alone when simulating a single frame is one of my most wanted features for Daz Studio. My workflow almost always involves setting up a series of related renders in the timeline for batch rendering and easy modification, but dforce doesn't work well with this approach. I usually choose to replace the clothing (with visibility toggles) for each frame that needs to be simulated, but it hardly needs to be said how inefficient this is.

A simple checkbox to simulate ONLY the current frame while leaving the rest untouched would be a godsend.

Do bear in mind that the results of starting from the partially simulated shape would not be the same as the original play range simulation, since there would be no record of the accumulated energy in the springs from the previous frame. That, as I understand it, is why we can't pause and resume a simulation or start it over from a mid point. Given that, if you did a partial resym in the middle of an animation you might get a jump in the frame after, due to the different drape in the isolated simulation.

I understand that, but it isn't really relevant to the way in which I use the timeline for most of my projects. Since I'm not working with animations (in most cases), what happened in the last frame has no bearing on what happens in the current one, nor the next. All I need is to set the in and out time for the simulation, just like you can today. The simulation can simply ignore the existence of all the other frames for my purposes.

jardine

Slartibartfast said:

A simple checkbox to simulate ONLY the current frame while leaving the rest untouched would be a godsend.

+1

marble

This is becoming an increasingly relevant question for me and I'm wondering if anyone has come up with a solution yet? 

Say I have a scene in which I need to use the timeline to run dforce on some clothing. That scene now has a timeline. I don't want that timeline to be a feature of the next scene which is an iteration of the first scene. I just want a scene with the cloth already draped - but perhaps other things in the scene have changed. Perhaps I need to move a second character and run dForce on her dress. But now I have an iteration of the scene complete with timeline for the previous dForce simulation. I just want a scene which is, in effect, a single frame from the timeline. Surely this is not beyond the capabilities of this technology but I can't figure out how to do it.

WendyLuvsCatz

I export objs I use with morphloader, whole figures that are morphable props and I puppeteer them

 

these figures are props

marble

Sorry, Wendy, I don't get what you are suggesting. All I want to do is save a dforce simulation as a single frame. I don't want to convert my figures into props. I want to have them as normal G8F characters in the next scene and all following scenes.

Here's another way to look at the problem: saving a scene will save all the features of that scene including the timeline. So will saving a scene subset. Nowhere that I can find is there a way to save a snapshot of the scene at that current frame, ignoring the rest of the timeline. If I save a pose, I am asked whether I want to save a range of frames from the animation timeline or just the current frame. That's exactly what I want for saving a scene but I can't find a way to do it.

WendyLuvsCatz

marble said:

Sorry, Wendy, I don't get what you are suggesting. All I want to do is save a dforce simulation as a single frame. I don't want to convert my figures into props. I want to have them as normal G8F characters in the next scene and all following scenes.

Here's another way to look at the problem: saving a scene will save all the features of that scene including the timeline. So will saving a scene subset. Nowhere that I can find is there a way to save a snapshot of the scene at that current frame, ignoring the rest of the timeline. If I save a pose, I am asked whether I want to save a range of frames from the animation timeline or just the current frame. That's exactly what I want for saving a scene but I can't find a way to do it.

guess my suggestion was more relevant to SnowSultan,

I do it because morphing props will fit in my scenes more than 3 dressed figures won't and I drape each static pose from memorised pose so they don't explode

marble

WendyLuvsCatz said:

marble said:

Sorry, Wendy, I don't get what you are suggesting. All I want to do is save a dforce simulation as a single frame. I don't want to convert my figures into props. I want to have them as normal G8F characters in the next scene and all following scenes.

Here's another way to look at the problem: saving a scene will save all the features of that scene including the timeline. So will saving a scene subset. Nowhere that I can find is there a way to save a snapshot of the scene at that current frame, ignoring the rest of the timeline. If I save a pose, I am asked whether I want to save a range of frames from the animation timeline or just the current frame. That's exactly what I want for saving a scene but I can't find a way to do it.

guess my suggestion was more relevant to SnowSultan,

I do it because morphing props will fit in my scenes more than 3 dressed figures won't and I drape each static pose from memorised pose so they don't explode

Yeah, I went back to trying memorized pose too. The problem I started with was that I needed to use the timeline because the character was sitting on a couch and memorized pose (default G8F pose) had her hip-deep inside the couch. I tried to memorize her above the couch using the Y-Translate but Memorize ignored the translation. I've now discovered that if I use hip translation (ugh) I can position her above the couch and avoid having to use the timeline.

I do hope that they make some sort of additional timeline for dForce. I think it is called Non-Linear animation where different parts can be animated independently in the same scene.

Magic Man

Just searching for info on the same issue and came across this. I don't suppose there are any better solutions or workaround for this yet, i.e. having dForce simulations only act per frame?

marble

Magic Man said:

Just searching for info on the same issue and came across this. I don't suppose there are any better solutions or workaround for this yet, i.e. having dForce simulations only act per frame?

Sorry, I wish I could say things have improved but they haven't (unless there's been developments I'm unaware of). I would also like to be able to save a scene from a single frame of the timeline - be that a regular animation or a dForce drape. Seems to me that should be a standard feature but I doubt it will ever happen. 

WendyLuvsCatz

it could be done if dforce created morph keyframes like Optitex does using freeze or VWD does 

sadly dforce seems a live physics cloth only

Magic Man

Thanks both

Steel Rat

I would also like to be able to save a scene from a single frame of the timeline - be that a regular animation or a dForce drape. Seems to me that should be a standard feature but I doubt it will ever happen. 

This^^

credford

Slartibartfast said:

Leaving other frames alone when simulating a single frame is one of my most wanted features for Daz Studio. My workflow almost always involves setting up a series of related renders in the timeline for batch rendering and easy modification, but dforce doesn't work well with this approach. I usually choose to replace the clothing (with visibility toggles) for each frame that needs to be simulated, but it hardly needs to be said how inefficient this is.

A simple checkbox to simulate ONLY the current frame while leaving the rest untouched would be a godsend.

This is exactly how I use animation much of the time and I have the exact same request.