...and Production of an epic begins
Dartanbeck
Posts: 21,583
EDIT: Thread previously named: "A Beautiful Day in March!"
Wow...
The sun is shining, the wonderful sound of running water from under several feet of melting snow...
Just gorgeous here! :)
So I took my dog for a nice walk, took care of a pile of outdoor chores that needed doing, and I got a spur in my britches to further my Carrara endeavors! :ahhh:
Yup, I grabbed a microphone, some cable and a few adapters to take my xlr mic cord down to the 1/8" mic jack on my laptop, and for the first time set this thing up to record with, since my Workstation's cooling just seems to emit too much noise for a decent recording.
Bought way back when I first built my Workstation, as a matter of fact, in the same order as the bits and pieces to build the workstation, I've finally set up and started learning how to use my Sony Sound Forge software! Yaaaay!
Another sleepless night last night
My sweet little dog likes to wake me up between two and three A.M. to go outside to do her thing. Lately, that has caused major sleeplessness from that point until nearly six, when I finally pass out only to awaken near noon. I don't like that. But it happened again last night.
In my sleeplessness, I had ideas running through my brain-pan. A wonderful prologue and a bunch of script material sprang forth from my head, through my hand, and onto my notepad via the pencil I had beside me.
This afternoon, after finally rinsing the sleep from my throat with a few doses of coffee, I grabbed my notepad to see what I wrote and was happily impressed! That's when I realized what a beautiful day it is! So I let energy flow through me as I went through my day... full ambition exuding from me everywhere I went - everything I did.
Alas, the Jeremy Birn learning course would have to wait until dark, as I am far too excited now to sit and read! I showed my prologue to my son and he loved it. I brought up the idea of my script to Rosie, and she's still on board to do her own voice recordings... could today get any better? Yikes!
Well back to my finally installing and setting up Sound Forge software. This is a Carrara forum. I should really be talking about Carrara. Well, in a way I am. My only reason for buying the Sony Vegas Movie HD Studio Platinum bundle was for use in my Carrara endeavors. So I'll just keep talking.
One thing that really impressed me about Vegas HD Studio was all of the built-in tutorials that you can access in the middle of your own projects, and it will help you with whatever you need while you work. Even if you switch around the windows, the ingenious tutorials know where the windows are and adjust accordingly, pointing you to exactly where you need to go. This same treatment was also done to everything in the bundle: Movie HD, DVD Architect, and Sound Forge.
I need this software to help me turn my renders into a series of video. But what I don't want is to have to become an expert on each subject to use the stuff. So having the ability to click on a friendly "Show Me How" button was not only convenient for me, it helped to make this perfectly beautiful March day even better!
So now the production has officially begun... finally!!! And I am so excited about it.
I (finally) bought Carrara back in 2010, just prior to the release of Carrara 8 Pro. Since before then, I had this dream of making a series of adventure videos that might be fun to watch. Between then and now I've had my nose to the grindstone with Carrara and the content that I'm constantly buying to use with it. I've discovered that the fact that Carrara is a sub-par modeler at best is not a fact at all, but a false rumor, I've learned shader tweaking and creation techniques, had enormous success plotting keyframes for my characters and the worlds in which they live, come up with optimized lighting and render settings that match my production timing needs... all this stuff has been coming together.
Holly approaches me a little while back inviting me to write about my 'Epic' production for some fresh new article to go into the Carrara cafe. My response was that my production has been on hold for some time now, with a brief explanation of the why of it. Well in writing for the Cafe about my epic saga to come, I've had to polish off some of those dusty files, only to reveal to myself that... Hey, I have a lot of pre-production work all completed and ready for filming! And the ball has been ever rolling ever since.
So to you, Holly Wetcircuit, and to all of my Carrara pals who might have asked questions - inspiring me to dig into all of the stuff I've been saving away for this very moment - I Thank You!
Ahhh yes... 'Tis a Beautiful Day in March!
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Comments
Wow, great news all around. Can't wait for the epic.
I noticed your insomnia because I had it too, and we were both posting at some silly hour (US time). Today, I took advantage of the break in the weather and took the day off to play golf. Yes, there was still snow and ice on some of the greens, but they opened the course anyway. Played lousy, but a pretty good day for me also. Even better, my coworkers will see my sunburned face tomorrow. :coolsmile:
That's So Awesome!
To make my day even better, my little granddaughter came a strollin' by with her big smile in a stroller. I may just have to mark March 10th as a new holiday... Awesome Day
It's a good outlook, to be sure. I always love it when inspiration strikes. It would be nice if I could be stricken soon. I have to go out of town this evening so I'll be away from my toys :( Going on a bittersweet college visit with my daughter. Damn they grow up fast. Seems like I was just telling her not to throw peas at her brother.
Can't wait for the weekend to hopefully do some recording and modeling. I plan to get that interior loaded and become completely frustrated over my total lack of lighting and shading knowledge. Expect a PM, Mr. Dart!
I'm interested in hearing what got people started in CG.. what softwares or techniques shaped your desire to know more - where did that take you - that sort of thing. For me, I was putting movies together with Adobe Premiere Elements, the beginner movie editing companion to Photoshop Elements. I ran across a program called Particle Illusion. I could place explosions and fire in my movies. I had become dangerous. It got me to wondering how those particles were made, which led me to Daz and AE. I settled on Carrara and became determined to learn my way around because I want to make the kind of films with a production value higher than I should probably deserve. So here we are.
I started with Bryce and Poser, then eventually moved to Carrara because of its seamless handling of Poser content, combined with much more powerful handlng of large animation scenes. I am also a big fan of Particle Illusion, using it for a lot of effects besides fire and explosion. I participate in two day video contests where the emphasis is on speed, and PI renders essentially in real time. So it can put some life into a still very quickly. An example is "Blown Away", an entry in one of the contests:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN1pXYvEqIc
This one was liked by the judges (for once). The PI pieces are:
0:30 Dust (over Vue landscape stills)
1:40 Cartoon (the whole thing)
2:23 Bird Flock
2:35 Weeds and Bugs
3:39 Fog & Steam
4:05 Beam Up
5:40 Explosion
Good stuff, especially with "blockers" to give a 3D feel, e.g. a laser beam goes behind an object/person in the still or video.
I had PI on an old PC that I don't have any more. They want $300 for it online, which is a little pricey IMHO.
I got the old SE version on a magazine disk years ago, and it had a discounted upgrade price. I don't remember how much, but those magazine disks seem to have disappeared (e.g. 3D World). $300 is not cheap, I agree, but its a pretty good program, works very intuitively and lots of free presets available. I must have 1,000+ collected over the years.
Just awesome.
Rosie comes in today and asks about the script. I begin going through it, explaining what's going on at the time as I do, and she just jumps into full character mode and pulls off these great lines, like she' rehearsed them. Bravo I say!!!
So I'm now faced with an important decision... keep my super-reliable Generation 4 heroes, since I've tweaked them over years of experimentation, or take advantage of this really nice new Genesis 2 lineup. Prior to right now, that has never been a difficult choice. I just wasn't working with Genesis 2 in Carrara, except for the occasional experiment here and there. But the way these things are set up, and the shape of them... man oh man...
So I'm experimenting with a new Genesis 2 Female Rosie hero and if I like it I'll work one up for Dartan as well. Having all of the character options available really turns this thing into one amazing person making machine. It took some practice, being so used to the older morph system, to get into a zone shaping my most iconic hero. I really like how in Genesis 2 models, all of the shaping morphs are located in the Actor and the character's name own all of the animation controls from expressions to the tips of the fingers and toes :)
That is something that becomes hard to leave, once you've felt the power of it all. At least that's how I would describe it right now.
So I don't have much for Rosie clothes in the G2F fit, but some quick reflective grid shaders helped to give her at least something to wear... she looks a lot like her Generation 4 actress already, but with the power of Triax. I think I'll see what I can do for a G2M Dartan while I mess with this one some more... make some cool clothes, etc.,
Funny, I got into the world of 3d computer graphics just after Neverwinter Nights computer game came out, and I made 'fantasy style' clothing for all women heroes in the game. But all I did was give them new textures. The folks that converted Spelljammer over asked if I could make some armor sets for them. The modeler of us taught me how to UV Map and then to model, and then turned me on to Poser 5. Shortly after that I discovered DAZ|Studio 0.7 beta and Victoria and Michael and all manner of props, textures, poses...
Finding out as I go that I'm not sure I could ever exhaust all of the various ways to texture a model in Carrara. Making art is one of the only things that can drag me into sitting at a computer. That and to type stuff :)
I really enjoyed Poser. My main thing was posing and animating, making textures, converting conforming clothes into dynamic... I really had some nifty experiments going on with painting onto the mesh what parts are dynamic, and which aren't, and then setting their dynamic properties. Kind of funny that I have yet to actually play with physics in Carrara. I have a good understanding of how it works, and I plan to use it, but I just haven't done it yet. Just working with scenes, getting them ready for this thing... my epic.
I have a somewhat different sort of artistic idea of how I want to present it. I think it might be a somewhat unique approach. At least it feels that way to me. But I reserve the right to remain silent on that - so if it doesn't work out I can try something else without anyone ever knowing about my greatest flub up! LOL We'll see soon enough.
Cool thread here. It lets Dart ramble on even more than usual!
Fortunately, I like reading about his adventures.
Nice character ! any chance you give us the morphing values or that you will release her ? I just love her face that change of what we can see / find in the shop.
That's gonna be tough to figure out. I have all kinds of different shape morphs and for this, I bought in my V4 version and set her to the side, where I could easily see her, and then just started dialing - seeming like my left hand never leaves Ctrl Z for undoing as I go. For someone as important to me as a fictional representation of my True Love and Wife, Rosie, I get very picky, and I doubt that I would ever release 'her' out of my intense love for her.... she's for me and me only. But here's how to do it.
I really like various characters released by the artist Thorne. Her faces are just magically cute. So as soon as I saw that she made Genesis 2 Female Head Morph Resource Kit, I had to have it. If I remember correctly, this whole thing started with Genesis 1... she made one for that, I think I may have bought several of those... and they are a wonderful addition to face shaping controls. So I use those very, very sparingly. But how morphs go, subtle can be everything.
Another strong point to make is that I can get the face looking just right in the view port, but not so in the render, so I tweak and tweak... and then I tweak some more - but I try to be careful and save versions that I'm at least somewhat satisfied with along the way. If I get the character anywhere close, I save before I really mess things up to a point of no retrieval! LOL
So Genesis 2 Female Head Morph Resource Kit helps me get some subtle cuteness added in. What else is special?
I don't even know what Genesis 2 comes with without anything added, since I like buying shapes. I usually have a quite a collection going before I even begin trying. That being said, the all time most important collection of shape morphs to me is Genesis 2 Female(s) Morphs Bundle, which has the face and body shapes bundled together. I wanted to have more abdominal shapes so I also got Belly Control For Genesis 2 Female(s) and V6.
A soft mix between Victoria 6, Gia, Girl 6, and Teen Josie, instead of using the full character dials, I just used the Body and Face dials separately, one at a time, back and forth until I found what I wanted. But then comes the process of trying to shape the mouth just right, so that they lay over the right parts of the teeth, to match how I want her expressions to work.
This involves going back and forth between shaping and dialing some mouth expressions. This part can drive me nuts sometimes. That Head Resource Kit really came in handy! I see there's another one out now. I might pick that up and tweak some more.
Funny thing. TheGirl, especially G5 and 6, look very much like a stylized 3d version of one of my daughters, who looks very much like her mother, Rosie! So I started with G6 dialed up a lot. But when it came down to finalizing, more and more of that G6 stylization got taken away, a little at a time.
Perhaps I could look up dial info and such... if I get more time... we'll see
So now I'm also at another big decision making stage regarding lighting techniques. After just releasing my Production Article at Carrara Cafe, I am now adding a whole new style of lighting to my test table that I've not yet explored. A technique that I'm learning in Jeremy Birn's Digital Lighting & Rendering called the Occlusion Sandwich. I'm sure this is nothing new to some of you out there, but I've never yet gotten into a multi-pass workflow for rendering and this whole thing not only looks really nice and really fast, but immensely fun and flexible too. Since I'm already using Howler for post effects and color grading before I actually send the clips to Vegas, this layering process seems, in theory, like it would and multitudes of flexibility to the entire process. I still have a lot of book left, and I'm certain that he'll be adding more layers of ideas about this sandwich technique throughout.
It's an amazing process of rendering a separate Ambient Occlusion layer and multiplying that against a shadowless Fill layer that lies underneath it, then Add a Key layer on top - Occlusion Sandwich! :)
Koukotsu's been using this technique as long as I've known her renders, and I love the result - and in doing so, I always just assumed that it was one of those techniques that made for longer render times, not the other way around. The process is set up to be a very fast render mode that requires the blending of layers as described above, resulting in an artificial global illumination. Or at least such is the intent. To resemble GI with IL, it does require some careful light placement decisions. The cool part is that it would also allow for post to occur before the sandwich is made, and perhaps even adding more layers to the sandwich - perhaps for visual effects and such. The book didn't say that (yet), but that's where my mind is going.
Previous to this, I have always set up lighting carefully towards getting render speeds. If my renders start taking too long, I immediately check my lighting to figure out why, and it's often a glaring, obvious shadow casting light that's trying to wrap its thoughts around something intense.
I was also looking at Trapcode Particular. It's similarly priced but I'm leaning toward its 3D components. PI does everything in 2D. The blockers do add some trickery but not in the way I saw of TCP sample videos.
Dart - I upgraded to 8.5 because I wanted the latest Genesis stuff. My interests are not so much in people but, in creating monsters. I love your work.
That's a new one for me, looks pretty impressive in their demo video. You probably noticed the "Trapcode Suite" is on sale, 10 plugins for a little more than twice the "Particular" price. And again the demo looks pretty impressive.
Well for that sort of thing, have either of you checked out HitFilm 2 Ultimate for roughly the same price?
Here is HitFilm 2 Express FREE so you can try before you buy.
Another alternative that I'm experimenting on, simply because I'm such a Carrara/Howler workflow fan...
Use Carrara to create animated effects. Just create the effect itself and render to sequenced targa with an alpha channel. Targa sequences may be opened in Howler as an animated brush, and with an alpha channel, the brush will respect the alpha.
Of course now you can paint with that brush. Holding down Alt and you paint one frame at a time on each frame of an animation you have loaded into the scene. But to get much more control over placement, angle, scale, and other factors, use the Brush Keyframer! Choose between bezier and linear for changes along the path. I just learned about that feature, which was how I made this little sequence of an animation being rendered across an empty Carrara screen.
Here in the DAZ 3D store, Project Dogwaffle Pro: Howler 9.1 is most reasonable, and can do much more for you in many other ways of creation as well. Just check out the thread link Here and watch some of the video tutorials... it's really an amazing tool for the animation Carraraist!
Pursuing this idea further, I have made a new empty scene and, for sake of this quick example, went to the "Basic Particles" heading in the Objects tab in Carrara, and added the LavaFlow preset. I decided to make it look more like water, so I made the metaballs smaller and added a water shader. For further enhancements I turned down the metaball influence slightly, and then made a copy of that emitter and made the influence stronger for that one, making the metaballs meld together more. This second one I lowered slightly to let the more droplets-looking version ride on the top - because another change I made was to turn off scene forces, so that I could use x = 0, y = 0 as ground level, so that the emitted metaballs would ride the ground, without having to add a plane.
This is a four second animation and, while it's not perfect by any stretch, it makes for a fine example of how we can use Carrara to add post effects to our videos or, as Philip Staiger of Dogwaffle has pointed out, for stills as well. Using the Brush keyframer allows us to set up an animation sequence on top of an animation sequence, so we can then pick the frame we like the best for our still image. Just select the frame you want to keep and dismiss the animation and it becomes a single frame still. Pretty sweet, and very fast.
In making this Targa w/Alpha animated brush in Carrara, the water shader would look pretty strange if all I did was to light it. So I added one of the Spherical Background images that comes with Woodlands, which works to assist in reflections and, if GI is turned on, with lighting too. Carrara is amazing that way.
So again, since this is just an example to make a point, instead of using an animation to begin with, I just loaded a quick render of one of the presets in my up-and-coming new product, Badlands. This one is a preset using the cave creator system. The first image below shows the image of the quick render at low settings.
Next I loaded the image into Howler and then Animation > Create -- and set it up for 120 frames at 30fps, like my new TGA sequence.
Then Brush > Animated Brush > Load Sequence -- and navigated to my new sequence.
The waterfall animation is backwards from how I want to add it to this image. I could just bring my file back to a still frame and flip it horizontally, but I like the angle as it is. So instead I go Brush > Flip > Horizontal.
You see, Howler is extremely Brush-centric. You can put nearly anything into your custom brush and then perform all manner of different things to it before you ever use it on anything. Store and Manage Copy is one of the ways that you can rotate, scale, change hue, etc., all manner of things to your brush.
Well the Brush Keyframer is like that too, except that you can now animate your changes along the length of the animation very easily and very quickly.
In this example, I didn't need to animate any changes. But since it starts off invisible, I needed to set the keyframer to somewhere late enough in the brush sequence to see where the borders of the render came out. I noticed that I needed to also scale it up. Then when I click on the Render button in the keyframer, it simply applied my changes to the entire sequence, since I haven't added any keyframes.
The bottom image is an animated gif of the final result, scaled down so that I could get the gif small enough to post. Believe me when I say that the actual (non gif) footage looks MUCH better!
Yeah, the gif looks SO nasty compared to the pre-gif animation, I thought that I would redo the process and, as mentioned earlier, free the animation to a still frame to give a better idea of how it looks - but still, since I didn't put much time and effort into this example, it doesn't look as good as it could, but this still is nowhere near as cool as the actual animation result - which I think looks really cool!
Another thing that I've failed to mention (Actually, there's a lot more to discuss when it comes to using Howler for applying effects) is that we also have a full range of options towards how to apply the brush. Default is Opaque, where using a sequence with alpha is only opaque where alpha allows it to be opaque, so it works really nice is this case. We also have Multiply, Divide, Add, Subtract, Screen, and many others.
Also, since this is all about a bunch of saved image data, we can open any of these assets and enhance them before we apply them - and/or after - whatever we need to get the results we're looking for. Just loading an animation sequence (avi or sequenced images) into Howler as the main image opens up a whole world of effects and enhancement possibilities, as it has an even more powerful timeline editor!
Dogwaffle has this amazing feature in that it always remembers your last stroke upon the canvas. We have a special feature that allows us to replay that stroke, no matter what changes we may have made to the brush. And we can replay that stroke over and over again if we so choose. The feature is so useful that Howler 9.1 now has a button for replaying the last stroke right on the main interface bar.
So we can render a rolling ball with an alpha channel, for example. And in that example, we only need one full revolution of animation. Howler will repeat it as many times as needed - if we want it to. Not we open an animation or an image and make it into an animation. We can now see the path that we need the ball to follow in the scene, so we use the default pen brush and draw the motion path onto the image before us. At this point, we're not worried about anything except where we want the ball to go - nothing more.
Look at the line you've just drawn. Is that the path you want? If not, undo the stroke and try again until you get it just the way you want.
When you have a line or curve that you like, undo once more, just to clear the line from the image. Now load the ball animation into the brush as sequenced animated brush, hold down the Alt key and replay the stroke. The rolling ball will now follow the path that you drew! At least I think that's the correct way to do that one... Just working from memory and I'm still fairly new to many features of Howler.
Personally, I would still do the above example using the Brush Keyframer. Then I could control the size and the path and see the actual results before rendering. But Howler has sensitivity levels that you may apply to a stroke, which would make it start small and grow as it got closer - so which ever way you find to be more comfortable working, it has many paths one could take to achieve the same sorts of effects - just like Carrara.
Back to the Carrara side of things, check out the gif above again. See how it appears to actually be hitting the floor? This is some really cool stuff. Much more so, in Carrara we have the ability to make that effect almost any sort of material we can imagine - even dust.
Animating in Carrara is really easy. The interface itself is begging us to turn whatever we add into an animation by giving us sliders and values to change - specifically for setting up animations. We even have a special "Fountain" tool! Never tried it, but it's there! What is that, a preset particle emitter?
I have been experimenting with all sorts of effects in Carrara. I used to try to do everything in Carrara, so that I didn't have to try and figure out how to use post work tools for animations. Howler has changed all of that for me. After Effects seems to be the big industry standard for this sort of thing - I tried the trial version and just didn't get into it very well. That was some time ago, and perhaps it was a time when I was still just too new at all of this. So if you know how to use AE, most of the methods I'm talking about here should work in that, and other applications as well.
The reason I'm bringing all of this up anyways, is because you guys were talking about additional software that can add particle effects and so on, which reminded me of HitFilm 2 Ultimate. I was looking into that very recently and really liked what I saw. But then I started to ask myself: "Couldn't I just do this stuff in Carrara?" and the answer, of course, is "Yes". But the thing is, if we try adding effects like this to an initial render, there becomes a point where we're spending way too much time on a single scene. By doing this stuff in post, we can render our Carrara scenes faster and more efficiently, while allowing for changes in effects to come later, when we're finalizing the clips.
So this brought me to thinking about Howler, and using it to apply my effects. It is specially designed to help me paint animations into animations. Well just recently, Philip Staiger conducted a seminar to the San Fransisco PhotoShop User Group. Gars Man, Milo, and Ringo from here at the Carrara Discussion forums were there too. While our host from the PhotoShop group was introducing Philip and starting the seminar, Philip was animating a starship through another animation using the brush keyframer. It blew my mind watching him. So I've been trying different things with that ever since - when time allowed, of course - so, not as much as I'd like.
Carrara being able to render with alpha into image sequences is truly magical for making our own special effects. It is the tool that can Explode a single polygon if you ask it to. It can make some arguably decent animated fire, smoke clouds, rippled waves, all manner of distortions... not to mention animated text and other effects. Even subtle enhancement things, like auras, low-density clouds, plants whose leaves rustle with the wind...
In that last one with the plant, imagine this: Instead of rendering an entire animation for a background, simply because you want the leaves on your trees to rustle, you can animate perspective motion and rotation in Howler using a still of the background after painting in a few animated trees with rustling leaves and perhaps some flowing water or rippling waves. By rendering a single plant at a time with an alpha channel applied, you can use Howler to turn it into a looping, animated sequence. Now save that sequence and you have an animated brush that can be used in many animated backdrops, speeding up your overall process tremendously! Same with moving waves of the Ocean primitive. In Howler, you can set your own alpha to determine where the brush can actually apply changes - so one animated brush of waves can go a long way in the post effects collection.
Adding fire to torches, smoke rising, explosions, clouds moving... now that we own Carrara, the possibilities truly are endless. Not sure if you know this, but using the backdrop feature, you can actually composite this stuff together using nothing but Carrara, if you have to. Just keep rendering the furthest back thing and use that in the backdrop for the next pass. Bring in the next furthest back, and so on. But I like doing my composites in Howler.
Good luck on your project, I certainly understand the excitement. Look forward to seeing more if it as time goes by. Love your enthusiasm!!
Will any of that be on the test? :gulp:
Just kidding, great explanantions, most of which I had not heard.
I second the motion.
Thank you. Finally some new animations heading your way from this corner.
Next considerations will be clothing my new Genesis 2 heroes, which calls upon doing some really fun new tutorials that I've been dying to do - and now I can do those as I progress with this. Thanks again to Holly for pointing 'that' part out!
Both characters still need a bit of work, but they're close enough to where I think I will be using Genesis 2. The final test will be how well they emote after I get their faces shaped just right.
For goodness sake, put some clothes on....I have work to do!!!
I just got Genesis 2 Female(s) Morphs Bundle, and the one for Males yesterday. Same reason as you...I built my original characters in earlier versions. And now these packages will let me remodel and improve them without totally rebuilding or relying on odd morph packages I've been collecting to try to get the right look.
I am a designer with a 10yr year business 2D history, so this is all new. I won't be animating as I am creating for graphic publications. But am so amazed at what so many of you do with Carrara animations, and companion products! Dart, please share some clips when you get you and Rosie's facial expressions sorted. I loved that short clip you posted of her falling back into your arms. It was so realistic and natural! Looking great! This one of her leaping out of the Carrara screen made me laugh...my first this morning as I haven't taken my pain meds yet. Now put some clothes on...I have a busy day today!!!
xx ;) Silene
Sorry Dart, that image had to go. I do agree with Lauren, he needs some clothes, he is most distracting, and the hand placement is very unfortunate. :coolsmirk:
I saw one day on this forum a turkey without feather, it was prohibited ?
A featherless turkey ain't got nothin' on Dart's physique!! ;) Oh well... was nice to look at whilst it was there.
xx :) SileneUK
It was to laugh…
But for us, Europeans, there are not many things which shocks us point of view of nudity.
True, but unfortunately we do have a ToS and we have to abide by it.
I know...being a mod has its 'oh bugger moments'.... but DUDU (French, right?) is correct, having lived in the US and here, the watershed time on TV for partial nudity (and more sometimes) in the UK is very early which took a bit of getting used to.
C'mon Dart, put yer knickers on and re-post!
Now...can someone tell me where the emoticons are? I only know a couple from guesswork.
:) SileneUK
Click on "Smileys" under Message to the left of the text box. :coolhmm: