Critique my new computer build specs!
Danielfisherart
Posts: 18
Hey there friends, I've been a mac guy past 20 years and a daz user the past 5 and it's time to finally upgrade my computer and I have decided to give windows a try as it simply seems the smarter option for a daz user...
It was initially going to be just a daz render mchine and I was thinking to still use mac for my other workflows, but if i can get along with windows??? I might just migrate my workflows back over to windows also, video, music, photography etc. And just have my ipad pro as my apple workhorse to continue to use the apps i like.
Digital painting is part of my proffession so I can justify spending whatever is needed also but as Im unsure if this will become my main computer vs just a daz machine i dont want to go overboard either.
So I have a friend put together a windows build and was wondering if the skilled brains here could just give it a second set of eyes and see if there is anything we missing or areas that could be refined?? I don't want to stuff him around to much either with going to far down the worm hole making lots of changes where possible but if things are off be cool to know!
Also I have an Eizo Sx2762w monitor and wondering how much speeds of monitors effect things as never thought about any of this stuff before.
Any advice much appreciated thank you! :)
Option 1:
Mid Tower Case with Side Panel Window
750 Watt Gold rated power supply
Asrock Gaming LGA1151-CL Motherboard
Intel Core i5 9600K 3.7GHz (6 Core, 6 Threads) CPU
16Gb DDR4 - 2400Mhz Ram
1Tb M.2 SSD
Professional Heatpipe CPU Cooler
Acer KG271A 27" 1MS Gaming Monitor (Full 1080P)
Windows 10 Pro - 64 Bit
Internal SD Card Reader (3.5" in 5.25" Adapter)
Cooler Master RGB Keyboard and Mouse Combo (USB Cabled)
GeForce GTX1650 Overclocked 4Gb Video Card
2 x 120mm Semi Clear Cooling Fan's in case
Price: $2429
Option 2:
Mid Tower Case with Side Panel Window
750 Watt Gold rated power supply
Gigabyte Aorus AM4 mATX Motherboard
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6Ghz (8 Core 16 Thread) CPU
16Gb DDR4 - 2400Mhz Ram
1Tb M.2 SSD
Professional Heatpipe CPU Cooler
Acer KG271A 27" 1MS Gaming Monitor (Full 1080P)
Windows 10 Pro - 64 Bit
Internal SD Card Reader (3.5" in 5.25" Adapter)
Cooler Master RGB Keyboard and Mouse Combo (USB Cabled)
GeForce GTX1650 Overclocked 4Gb Video Card
2 x 120mm Semi Clear Cooling Fan's in case
Price: $2579
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Comments
The GPU is your most important asset for Iray, so the 4gb is not advisable, it will not fit a lot, maybe one character with a simpke scene for example.
If you can redirect some funds, go for as much memory for your card as you can find in your budget. I have 6gb, and its usuable, but 8gb or more would give your more room for bigger scenes and such.
Edit : if you render with 3delight, the reverse is true, you should have a simpler gpu with more more cpu power and memory.
oh man this thows me! haha I just use 3dlight these days but that was mostly due to it being so much faster on my current computer, I was hoping to be able to start doing iray also... I might add i typcally mostly do single figures without backgrounds but more complex lighting and large canvas size (5000 pixels) sometimes 2 figures and a couple props, but mostly paint the backgrounds on my ipad. but again my workflow and art is shaped by the limits of my computer, I would use teradom 3 but its just 2 slow on current set up along with gen 8 figures etc.
Any advice on computer configuration, anyone configure to rune iray and 3d light or do you pick one and go with it?
Thanks for the feedback much appreciated
High monitor refresh rates are almost exclusively for gaming. While pushing an interface around in everyday use it may feel a bit more responsive and fluid, I would recommend higher resolution before higher refresh rate.
The Eizo will be much more useful in fitting more of the DAZ Studio interface on screen. I went for 4K (and HDR).
Ok thats great to know thank you kindly! :)
I'm no fan of prebuilts for precisely this reason. Both of those builds are objectively bad. They are $1200 overpriced, at least.
Comparing the two systems
mid tower case with side panel is meaningless. You need to know what the case is and how much airflow it provides.
While Coolermaster makes good keyboards and mice, I'm typing ona CM kb right now, they well over a dozen models of keyboard and mice. I'd let the OEM keep them, particularly if they are charging for them and buy off Amazon and get better for less.
A high refresh monitor is nice if you game but if you're doing creative work a calibrated monitor with better coverage of the color gamut is better.
A 1650? in a system that cost over $2k? No. At that price point you should be getting an 2070 Super minimum.
An i5? At that price? Just no.
On the Ryzen side:
The RAM is pitifully slow. You'll get lots of performance by getting faster RAM.
I strongly suggest not buying a prebuilt but if you feel unable to build yourself then find a different supplier. Those prices are just not even close to right.
Hey thank you for your straight up reply kenshaw! I had requested a change up today based on previuos responses and i'll post that tomorrow when the updates and pricing is sent through, I dropped the monitor as hoping to use my Eizo although it seems it doesnt play well with windows 10, and also droped key board and mouse as I rather get them myself, or even use my mac keyboard which looks possible as I really love it.
I have been reading other threads on this sort of topic and hope im not taking up time with things that have been covered but I havent yet seen a 2020 on a decent computer spec, guess there isso many variables hard to do but having heard your reply I'm kinda feeling at a loss of where to turn from this point, could you or anyone else willing please share a alternative list for 2,000 - 3,000 price point? also bare in mind these prices are in AUS dollars which is quite a difference here to USA and the likes.
Again thank you for the response really hoping to get this right :)
You're in Oz? Then yes, that is different. There is a tech channel on youtube by guys from Oz that is very highly thought of, Hardware Unboxed. I'd check their contact. They do discuss prices and suppliers in Oz from time to time.
Hi,
I don't know anything about Australia prices, But this is the system I just built.
Crucial MX500 2.5" 1TB SATA III 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive(SSD) CT1000MX500SSD $120
CORSAIR RMx Series RM850x CP-9020180-NA 850W ATX12V / EPS12V 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Power Supply $150
Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 2TB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSDPEKNW020T8X1 $235
MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS Gaming Motherboard AMD AM4 SATA 6Gb/s M.2 USB 3.2 Gen 2 HDMI ATX $160
AMD Ryzen 7 2700X AMD50 Gold Edition 3.7 GHz (4.3 GHz Max Boost) Socket AM4 YD270XBGAFA50 Desktop Processor $310
Corsair Obsidian Series 750D CC-9011035-WW Black Brushed Aluminum and Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case $160
G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16Q-64GVK $275
GIGABYTE GeForce GTX 1660 Ti OC 6G Graphics Card, 2 x WINDFORCE Fans, 6GB 192-Bit GDDR6, GV-N166TOC-6GD Video Card $280
Windows 10 Pro - Full Version 32 & 64-bit (USB Flash Drive) $200
This was arround $2000 US. Somethings were cheaper then, some are now. Two changes I'ld make, if they were in the budget, would be:
AMD RYZEN 9 3900X 12-Core 3.8 GHz (4.6 GHz Max Boost) Socket AM4 105W 100-100000023BOX Desktop Processor $430
EVGA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER SC ULTRA GAMING, 08G-P4-3067-KR, 8GB GDDR6, Dual HDB Fans, Metal Backplate $420
If you can get a better Video card, do it. Using Iray it will save you time. I boot the system from the Sata SSD and have my Runtime on the M2 SSD. The hard drive is for miscelaneous things. I am planning to upgrade the CPU to get The full use of the M2 drive in the future.
Gus
For $2k in the US that is way less than you could have gotten. $235 for a 2Tb PCIE gen 4 drive when you are buying a gen 3 only CPU. I get the idea of upgrading but till then ow. Also where are those prices from? Those are just painful.
I just put this together (US prices)
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($174.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus PRIME X570-P ATX AM4 Motherboard ($144.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Intel 660p Series 1.02 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($124.00 @ Adorama)
Storage: Western Digital Black 4 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($173.89 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8 GB BLACK GAMING Video Card ($653.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master MasterCase H500P Mesh ATX Mid Tower Case ($169.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply ($126.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $1718.81
Thank you for the replies guys, yes indeed it is painful, the current build is around $3,500 Aus Im having trouble following what you guys are saying in any depth as I really don't know much about tech specs of windows machines and I'm kinda at the mercey relying on my builder to help me navigate all this, I will post shortly the current specs to see more importantly if it looks like a smart machine outside of its price. Things here in Australia cost so much more then in the US, and I don't have the knowledge or time to go shoping over the internet for best pricing on components and can't afford to pay my tech guy to do it either, but do appreciate the feedback and I will continue to dig deeper to see if things are legit. couldnt have imagined buying a new computer could be so stresful haha
These prices are the current ones at Newegg. Note : you didn't include an operating system ( $200 ) which brings it up to approximately $2000. My system does 3DL much better and yours excells at Iray. I wanted a 2TB drive for my runtime for expansion puposes and I know it doesn't get the full benifits with a gen2 CPU but, I plan to upgrade it eventually. Also Newegg has 0% interest for a year for that kind of thing.
Gus
Those are not the newegg prices either.
You're buying an anniversary edition CPU for no reason, much less buying the 2700X at all instead of the 2700. 2700 is $212.
As to a Windows license? Why? Don't you currently have a win 10 box? Licenses transfer. Also Win 10 pro is not $200 its $150 (you pay an extra $50 if you want a USB stick because you can't buy a cheap stick and make one yourself).
Putting a 3d asset library on an NVME drive is just plain dumb. You might only have enough assets to fit in 1Tb now but trust me that won't last. Also booting from the slower drive is just bizarre. Get a 1Tb boot and software drive and then a big storage HDD.
64Gb of RAM makes little sense either. Even in a 3Delight system, which your build is objectively worse than mine at.
If you really want a $2000 3Delight system this is superior in pretty much every way:
CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor ($418.95 @ B&H)
Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) ATX AM4 Motherboard ($183.99 @ Best Buy)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($164.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Intel 660p Series 1.02 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($124.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Western Digital Black 4 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($173.89 @ Walmart)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2060 6 GB KO GAMING Video Card ($303.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master MasterCase H500P Mesh ATX Mid Tower Case ($169.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA G5 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($116.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $1657.76
Even if you source everything from Newegg, which is not the best idea but whatever, you'll still come out cheaper with superor performance.
I built something similar, the big difference is I'm waiting for NVMe 2TB SSDs to go down in price & waiting for this year's nVidia "Ampere" GPU models. Because I bought returned parts on Amazon over a period of 4 months (I'm poor) my cost was about $778 instead of the total of $955.66 being given by PCPartPicker today sans the SeaSonic Power Supply (if can fluctuate wildly especially between November - December every year)).
I've very happy with my new computer's performance and noise levels (much quieter than my 8 year old laptop it replaced) but were I to upgrade I'd add:
a) 2x16GB Patriot RAM for 64GB RAM total. Truth is this should be 2nd or 3rd on the list. I haven't scenes yet that consistently exceed 32GB RAM for CPU rendering but it's not too expensive so it's 1st.
b) 2TB NVMe SSD probably Mushkin brand and remove the 2TB Seagate hybrid SSHD. The NVMe would be system disk & the Sata III 2TB SSD would be just for a weekly full backup + system disk image. Truth is disk I/O on the Sata SSD is fast enough that this purchase should be last on the list, not second. The weekly backup to the Seagate 2TB SSHD runs Sunday evening - Monday morning while I sleep so it being slow is not consequential.
c) Either the new nVidia RTX Ampere GPU or the already existing nVidia RTX 2070 8GB Mini (probably from Zoltec) if price was $450 including taxes or less
d) If the price dropped to about 50% of it's current price, the AMD Ryzen 9 3950X 16 core 32 thread CPU. Last only because current cost of this CPU is $750+. Given the performance improvement the AMD Ryzen 7 2700 made over my i7-3630QM I think the AMD Ryzen 9 3950X performance improvement over the AMD Ryzen 7 2700 would be worth the money too. However, for rendering the GPU supercedes any of the three CPU but limited GPU RAM makes having a relatively fast CPU render option with a lots of maxed out system RAM worthwhile.
I wouldn't count on seeing Ampere before Xmas.
On going from the 2700 to the 3950, the B450 mATX board might not handle it. It has pretty awful VRM's and the 3950 does draw a lot more power than the 2700. But it might work. I just wouldn't do a client build with it.
That PSU is never going to handle a 2070. Speccing your system out with a 2070 in place of the 570 comes to 358W. Assuming the 450W PSU is perfectly on spec, never happens, that is a sustained 80% load. That is a very bad idea. I'd want a 600W minimum before putting a 2070 in it, although you also have the space/heat issues of building an mATX system in a mATX case.
I understand building on the cheap but cutting corners on the PSU rarely works out well.
Those were prices directly from Newegg website that day. No I don't have a Win 10 box, I preferred Win 7, and the OP didn't either. He was transferring from a MAC. The $150 you quoted is for the OEM version of Windows, which I am a little leary of because of something I read at the time I bought it. " The main difference between OEM and Retail is that the OEM license does not allow moving the OS to a different computer, once it is installed. Other than this, they are the same OS. " Please note that Windows decides what classifies as a 'different computer'. I also have a 2TB NVME for the library for that reason. Haven't you noticed how long characters take to load? The System is on a SSD also, just a SATA3 drive. So... it takes 30 seconds to load or less, once.
Gus
Thanks.
The board can and does handle the Ryzen 9 3950X (that was an unexpected bonus for me really) but because the board was designed for Zen+ instead of Zen 2 the motherboard bus I/O has less bandwidth then motherboards designed for the new AMD Zen 2 chipset; eg it has only 1 M.2 NVMe slot not 2. It has only 'normal WIFI' not this new 'WiFi 6' and such things. So I don't get the full bus bandwidth benefits of the 3950X on this Zen+ motherboard sort of like the motherboard bus bandwidth differences between the Ryzen, Threadripper, and EPYCs lines of CPUs. That won't be a problem.
I added up the wattage and the new Ryzen 9 3950X CPU at 105W TDP and nVidia RTX 2070 at 185W at 290W don't actually exceed 450 watts of my power supply and the rest of my components, particularly when I pull the Seagate Firecuda 2TB hybrid SSHD, the non-CPU/GPU total is not even close to 60 watts putting the total at less than 350 watts leaving between 100 - 150 watts in excess for the 105W CPU & 185W GPU average to load draw in excess of 105W / 185W under heavy loads.
The TDP of my current AMD Ryzen 7 2700 CPU is only 65W and so adding a nVidia RTX 2070 GPU is even less of a risk for the power supply wattage.
nVidia does however recommend 550W for the nVidia RTX 2070 and if I have trouble I will upgrade but I've never overclocked and ain't going to start now with these massive performance improvements. I can get a cheap non-certified PS for 550W for about the same price as I paid for the SeaSonic. SeaSonic brand draws premium prices and $41 was a bargain on the PS.
All that said, even though Gigabytes claims the board handles the new 3950X CPU and the math says my power supply can handle both the new CPU & the new GPU if they don't they don't and I'd have to upgrade the power supply & motherboard.
I only got the motherboard so cheap because it was a BIOS version 1.0 mb that could only do Zen+ when everybody was buying Zen 2 Ryzen 3000 series of CPU resulting in the board's return when it wouldn't boot the 3000s series of CPUs. I've since updated the BIOS to the newest revisions that can handle the Ryzen 9 3950X.
No you got the Mobo cheap because it is one of the worst mATX B450 mobo's. It was always a sub $100 board and its current $80ish price is likely still too high for its actual value. Every B450/X470 that was released prior to last summer shipped with incompatible BIOS. If your board still had one that means Gigabyte hasn't made any since. There's a reason for that.
On the PSU, seagate is not premium. They are the same tier as pretty much all the other "name" brand PSU's. You make many assumptions about the output of the PSU. PSU's are never absolutely on spec and the lower the output the more this matters as variances in output of 5 to 10W matter a lot more at 450 than at 600. Running an 80+ PSU at 80+% output will just shorten the lifespan. Do not buy a non certt PSU and certainly don't run it over 50% load ever.
The upgrade from Win7 is still free. So you do have a win 10 license. I upgraded a Win 7 OEM to Win 10, built a new machine, moved the license, I just logged in with my MS account and it was automatic. I have changed the CPU, drives and added a GPU since and had no problems after any of them. As long as you're not swapping hardware on a daily basis you won't have an issue. I do that on my testbenches at work and Windows does complain eventually but it is almost random. But why spend money when you don't need to? You can always install win 10 without a license and if your old one doesn't transfer then you can buy a license.
Nothing is wrong with this motherboard except I had to manually upgrade the BIOS. Cheap and not popular are not equivalents to bad quality. It's actually much better build quality than the MSI and ASUS motherboards I was buying 15 years ago building my PCs.
Everthing I've read says SeaSonic is a premium PS manufacturer but as I said that it was made by SeaSonic is not why I bought the PS. I bought it because it was SeaSonic and available for $41 after listing for twice that in non-return new SeaSonic PSs of that type. $41 for a 450W power supply that gets a SeaSonic warranty is a better deal than a $41 for a identical noname PS without the warranty.
Likewise, I bought the cheap offbrand Patriot RAM at DDR4-2666 rather than a higher price popular brand at DDR4-3000+
Also, I'm not going to pay a $200+ premiums to get the Zen 2 "gaming extreme" motherboards for bus bandwidth that even if there were SSD and other peripheals that could use that extra bus bandwidth as my computer usage scenarios wouldn't use that much bus bandwidth.
You're actually making many more assumptions than I have. You're assuming a well known manufacturer of power supplies that manufactures them with digital automated precision has sold me an 450 Watt 80+ Bronze Certified power supply that can't actually do 450 watts based on the belly aching of some people that have stuffed their desktops to the gills and are overclocking to boot. I'm not worried about the PS doing 450 W. I'm more concerned that the CPUs and GPUs potentially draw much more power than they are rated for if overclocked; exceeding the 450 watts my PS has and therefore I don't overclock to enable that scenario. Likewise I have no temperature extremes frying my components. Never have and never will.
I'm very confident as a non-water cooling and not overclocking person with much practical experience in computer science that the power supply I bought can and will handle the Ryzen 9 3950X and nVidia RTX 2070 8GB together. If what they call their "non-overclocked turbo mode" actually exceeds that 450W well I will deal with it when I get there but I've actually seen no literature stating the wattage used when those parts are running at their factory standard "turbo" modes.
Example: As I was CPU rendering in DAZ Studio last night a FHD image the non-rendering MSI Radeon RX 570 8GB was drawing 14 watts (running my monitor) and the rendering CPU was drawing 15 - 18 watts. Actually combined was drawing less than my 8 year old HP 8470P Elitebook laptop with i7-3630QM CPU/intel HD Graphs 4000 combo doing the same type activity. Sure if that was an nVidia GPU that was rendering the wattage would be higher on the GPU but the CPU draw would be lower.
I'd have to write or configure a contrived usage scenario to push my non-overclocked CPU / GPU combo to their limits in parallel to even exceed 400 watts really and might not be able too. I'm not sure of that as I haven't investigated non-overclocked turbo modes sufficiently yet. Maybe some day software will be improved in the future to better utilize my computer's resources to nearer their maximum but that day isn't now.
That said, the new desktop was occasionally blue screening on Windows 10 1909 but I've identified that cause as the direct installed from AMD StorMI drivers being the culprit and since I've removed them and so no more bluescreens. Whether that StoreMI problem was the actual AMD implemention of the StoreMI drivers, Gigabytes implemention of the motherboard technical specs, the BIOS implemention, or that I had no storage devices that could actually utilize those installed AMD StorMI drivers (that shouldn't cause bluescreens though!) I don't know.
No. I'm stating a fact. Every single electronic component varies from its stated rating. Resistors even used to have that variance as part of the color coding (pretty sure SMT resistors are too small to have the old color coding).
Milspec also specifies the maximum variance allowed.
Therefore you are always 100% sure that the PSU does not match its rated max output. It may be close, an 80+ is usually within 10%, as in all the components have a rated variance of that so even if every one was 10% down that would still only drop the output by that. As the cert level increases it is not certain when or if the manufacturer will move to lower variance components but as the design requirements get more stringet it becomes essentially guaranteed. Further as components age the variance from the manufactured rating increases. This is most relevant in capacitors, vital in a PSU, where the electrolyte, or other dielectric material, degrades over time.
As to non cert PSU's, the stated capacity is advertising. There is no guarantee that they will come anywhere close to that. The companies that make many of them actually make other PSU's and simply sell the ones that fail QC as not 80+ at bargain prices with no warranty. This is what makes me sure Seasonic is no more premium than Corsair or EVGA or any of the other brand name PSU sellers (Sea Sonic makes the other campanies PSU's that was their original business)