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I just took for granted that I would always have to severely darken the diffuse of black hair if I wanted it to look right to me.
Yes, black hair is problematic in ways that other hair colors aren't. It is more problematic in 3Delight than in IRAY because IRAY handles reflectivity much better. There is no way that "out of the box" black hair shaders for any hair style will work optimally under every conceivable lighting condition.
Backlight hair shaders from chevybabe25 work wonderfully. Yes, they aren't free, but if you amortize the cost of shader packs over all the hairstyles that you own, you will probably find that the cost is quite reasonable. A $25 investment in shaders can provide dozens of options for almost every hairstyle you own. If you're new to Daz Studio, good shader packs are one of the best purchases you can make, even if not the most spectacular of items.
Wow. Daz's marketing department should pay me.
I hate to be this guy, but this topic is really better suited to Product Suggestions.
This scalp issue is caused by smoothing being on. I actually ran into it myself, and couldnt figure out why it was doing that. I turned the entire thing transparent, and it still persisted. Turns out, smoothing being off fixes it. But it only does it in iray (3DL doesnt seem to have that prob at all) It must be a bug
it's an iray only bug taht happens when two surfaces are in the exact same space. scaling the hair even the tiniest bit (100.01) will fix that.
ok i thought about it new and yes
the special thing with black hair: it has no color or is just very dark which means no light
so it does much more rely on light and its reflection than red or brown hair
conclusion: black hair needs a different and special surface dial for everything that deals with reflection
Looks like too much translucency and not enough true blue gloss results in grey looking hair instead of shiny black hair. It doesn't look good, no.
Here's the same hair with the same light, but with OOT IrayPair Hair Shaders (Rendo). First one is !Haircolors: Black 10, Gloss Color Options: GL Color Blue, Gloss Options: GL Doll Shine, second one the same but with some shader modifications (see later post below). Render time about 12 min. on a GTX 1070.
Here is the same hair, rendered out of the box under different lights (one of the presets from today's portrait lights).
Second render is same default everything but with the Low shine preset that comes with the hair.
Third render is the same hair but with black as a diffuse color applied since if you look at the texture, it does has some lighter colors in it.
Last render is with some dark brunnete shaders from the colorwerks shaders I linked before.
@Taoz I really like the look in the second render!
This.
Here is the complete recipe:
OOT IrayPair Hair Shaders (Renderosity)
Apply OOT Iray Hair Shader first
!Haircolors: Black 10
Gloss Color Options: GL Color Blue
Gloss Options: GL Doll Shine
Then change/apply these settings:
Base Mixing: PBR Metallicity/Roughness
Base Color: black
Translucency Weight: 0
Glossy Color: 0.058 - 0.048 - 0.045
Glossy Roughness: 0.60
Top Coat Weight: 0.14
Top Coat Roughness: 0.30
Top Coat Anisotrophy: 1.00
+1
I have Bella Hair, and it does have grey steaks in it; it's meant to look like that.
... If you're using default settings (whatever those default are: morphs, shaders, textures etc), you're rendering someone else's idea of what it should look like - same for any product - free or paid for.
@Taoz Thank you!
That OOT Hair shader at Rendo released way back in the 4.8 days. Iray has changed massively since that time. The translucency weight value is one thing that has changed. If I remember right, the black OOT looked darker back in the 4.8 days. There are skin settings that back in 4.8 or 4.9 looked ok, but in 4.10 or later look like clear wax because of how those material settings were changed.
However, the newer hairs and products don't have that excuse. I don't think the default HDRI is the issue. As we can plainly see in pics posted here with decidedly not default lighting, the issue can present itself quite well. I must say I am quite curious as to what light the first pic here is actually supposed to look black in. Because it appears to me that almost any kind of light will make that hair look gray.
Not for nothihg, but as someone with black hair (like raven black hair), it's not some color that looks so dark it sucks in light like a black hole. Black hair is often more shiny and reflective than other hair colors, and thus more easily takes on and reflects whatever lighting is hitting it. So if you're looking for black hair that is just flat...black...hair...that's not exactly realistic in the realm of things.
WHAT!? that's not you in your avatar?! I am so crushed, LOL
Yeah, I find in VR and Unity, getting black hair to look realistic is a challenge as well.
This.
It really is all in the lighting. These are identical Ekaterinas with the new Lynna hair which comes with two shades of black, shown here with #1 on the left and #2 on the right. If you have a lot of light bouncing around with an HDRI, you'll get the first result. If you remove the reflective surroundings and the HDRI, you get the second result. The hair looks blacker in the second, but it isn't. It's the same hair in a different light. In fact, even the characters' expressions look different between the two, even though they're unchanged.
Haha yeah...my hair can go from looking blue to red to grey depending on the lighting. Think of a raven's wing...that kind of chromatic look where the feathers can change color where the light bounces off.
Haha nope...wish I looked like Lagertha's cousin.
I wonder what the PA who just made Cato for G8M did to make Blair Hair look blacker? Saiyaness has an extensive list of "additional products used" in the promos--one of which is the light set PRO-Studio HDR Lighting System that I used--but doesn't list a separate hair shader.
I'm not opposed to hair shaders, as I have Backlight by chevybabe25. I'm not opposed to light sets, as I have quite a few. But I still agree with the OP that if a hair product lists black, it should be black, or raven black if that is a better term. Not black with a lot of grey, unless it is clearly labeled that. Some include black & white etc. to make the distinction. I also agree that flat black hair would be less realistic, more a toon look. And I'll take the "default settings" of ROG's Medieval Fantasy Bedroom and Red Crow Inn any day! :)
Double Double Post Post
Changed the base colour to black for the one on the left. The one on the right is out of the box. Front spot, top spot, minimal HDRI.
Here is an example of AprilYSH hair with backlight hair shaders -
I think the majority of examples given have been with AprilYSH hair and it should be noted that these particular hairs use specific UV-mapped materials rather than the standard verticle striped UV that other hairs use. Each has has their own individual texture maps, and I believe some of the "beef" brought out here stems from these texture maps being more grey than black. @servin showed a way to rectify that by darkening down the color map shader. You can also swap the materials out for different all-purpose shaders. I personally use and recommend Backlight, which is what is pictured above. I know OP doesn't want to have to make additional purchases, but these shaders can be used to spruce up practically any hair out there...and can even help to bring older hairs back to today's usability. They're definitely a purchase well worth it.
I use the Backlight Hair Shaders a fair bit, too. You get useful options, like gloss, etc. I own the IrayPair too, but you kind of get used to using one product.
@doubledeviant 4 months is nothing. Some people reply to threads 2 or 3 years old.