No way to know if an outfit poses with the character?

NotAnArtist

What determines whether or not an outfit will automatically pose with a character? There needs to be a way to clearly know this before any item of clothing is put up for sale... Even in real life, I suppose ;-)

I loaded Mabel 8 > applied the Wasteland Momma Outfit for G8F while she was in the A pose > moved the thighs > and the skirt section didn't budge an inch. The lady was showing her gams!

So to test on a non-dForce outfit, I applied the Everyday 1930 V4 dress to V4. Like the case above, it was properly fitted, and yet here, too, the legs moved without effecting the dress. There were, however, movement morphs for the dress that could be applied manually. Nevertheless, it should have worked automatically.

I went back to Mabel 8 and found a few sliders for the skirt in Parameters > Hip > Pelvis. But it was awkward to align with anything but limited poses.

It takes long enough for normal setup and render. I hope that the "Everyday 1930" problem above means I'm missing something in general, because I have a lot of dForce clothing but I have no interest in adding dForce simulation to the setup time. I was led to believe that dForce clothing works normally with poses unless it states "dForce only."

So I tried a 3rd dress, applying dForce Servant Dress for G8F to Mabel 8. It moved perfectly with all sorts of poses. What's happening here? Nothing on the sales pages of the other 2 products suggests they're unable to do this - whether dForce or not.
After a few years with DS I thought I was ready for the public. So I told someone I would make a Wasteland Momma image for them...
Promising something and not providing it is very embarrassing! I should switch my goal from art to politics.
I don't mean this to be a rant. I really would appreciate some insight on this. The threads that I have found don't make any of this clear, to me at least. Thanks!!!

Leana

Most skirts (especially long or non skin tight ones) don't follow leg poses, you pose them with specific bones or morphs (wasteland momma has 13 posing bones according to the product page).

This is because rigging them to follow the legs leads to unnatural skirt poses. For example with a long skirt if you lift one leg forwards, in the real word only the front of the skirt would move, the back wouldn't. With a skirt rigged to follow the legs both the front and back would move.

NotAnArtist

Thank you so much, Leana, for responding! This is totally new to me, which is shocking because I've been tinkering with DS for almost 8 years now! OTOH, I've seldom used much more than a pair of pants, shoes, and a shirt for each character. If they're human... But yet, all this time??

So that explains even the Everyday 1930 for V4 question. I see your point regarding the rigging affecting both the front and back of a skirt. Though, the Servant Dress seemed to work beautifully.

OK, this was uh, disturbing. But it's beautiful to have helpful artists out there like you to come to the rescue. Now, back to the grindstone... that's another project I'm working on. No clothing necessary.
Cheers!!!

kenshaw011267

With dForce items they will never follow the characters pose until it has been simulated. Once you run the simulation you should get a much more natural draping than is possible without an awful lot of time and effort invested.

NotAnArtist

kenshaw011267 said:

With dForce items they will never follow the characters pose until it has been simulated. Once you run the simulation you should get a much more natural draping than is possible without an awful lot of time and effort invested.

Sorry if this is late. I'm using Linux and notifications don't often work.
 
The Servant Dress did move & pose with no problems by simply posing the character. I could go back and see if I tested too fast and missed something subtle. I'm full-on these days studying this stuff because there's a chance for some actual work for someone, so these 'little' problems are... dumb. Waste of time.

Maybe this thread should be dropped. I don't want to add dForce to the mess I'm dealing with, so I'll use other clothing for now. Exhausted anyway. Spent all day today unable to get tons of black spots off of a character's skin in Iray. Not fireflies. This is pathetic.
Thanks anyway, really. You folks are amazing.