Rigging & Animation Question C7Pro

franontheedge

Hi,
I have Carrara 7Pro, (cannot afford 8 so don't ask me to change) and currently I also have 7 characters I need to rig and then animate (children's animation).

I'm currently trying to learn rigging in both DS and in Blender. On the surface they both look pretty possible (I've done a small bit of rigging in C4D, so I know a little about it (a very little)) and there seem to be lots of tuts for Blender and a fair few for DS too.
(I haven't yet looked for Carrara tuts, it's only just occured to me)

Question 1) What I want to know is - are there plenty of tuts for C7Pro or is it all on C8 now?

(I know Dartenbeck has been making tuts galore, (even in the Bryce forum we've heard about that.) but I don't know for which version...

Question 2) How easy is it to learn to animate in Carrara7Pro?

I need a program that has plenty of tuts, and plenty of (sympathetic) support for an idiot (me).
I need to be able to animate expressions and speech as well as walking and other actions.
I need to be able to light the scenes simply and easily without having to go through massive hoops or wait for massive render times. (no more than usual anyway)
I need to be able to animate and rig in one program (ideally) or to transfer models from one program to another for different jobs without massive problems in sizing, loss of textures, distortion of model... or anything else that might help to slow things down.

Reflection will probably need to be handled well.

I want to create my own landscapes for this or at least to be able to make my own streets/shops/palace/gardens etc
I currently do all my modelling in Wings3d, but I've been learning Hexagon too, and either I'm cleverer than I was (unlikely) or Hexagon is now easier to model in than it used to be...
(I still do all my UV Mapping in Wings3d though)...

Question 3) can Carrara7Pro do UVMapping?
Are there tuts for that?

Before C4D I used Bryce and Wings3d exclusively, tried Poser but it was so clunky back then. But C4D rel 10 has very very few tuts and no one wants to talk about that version - it's all 15 (I think), so I really need a prog that's currently supported, which is why I thought DazStudio or Blender, both of which are well supported.

So what about Carrara7Pro???

Any opinions?

P.S. Pic shows 6 of the characters I want to animate (7th is being tested for rigging in Blender).

WendyLuvsCatz

yes to all of the above
and C7pro fine, Evil Producer a carrara forum regular uses it
just no good for genesis and Daz triax content
for do it yourself modeling rigging and animation is perfectly ok
the carrara mimic plugin for C7 if you can still get it is good for use on self made with morph targets created mesh too.
look on the carrara firum, at cripeman and DimensionT tutes on youtube
maybe buy PhilW training vids (I never have but others rave about them)

that said, Daz studio rigging still worth learning, it has some advantages such as DS & Poser compatibility and one thing I realy like, ability to add bones to rigged weightpainted mesh which carrara cannot do, you need to re weightpaint if adding bones.

briannhinton_061bb6f56d

Really you should be fine rigging your characters in Carrara 7. You have plenty of tools for what you are looking to do. If you did all the modeling, texture, etc in Carrara it would probably be easier to just stay in Carrara.

Plenty of good resources out there to get you started:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4N2jx0gc5I

evilproducer

Carrara's rigging system is pretty much the same as it has been. If you see a rigging tutorial for C8 or C8.5 it should still be mostly relevant. There may be some minor UI differences, but the tools should all still be there.

I use C7.2 Pro still, so if you do find tutorials that are later than C7, and you don't know where I a tool is, I may be able to help.

The top of the forum has some stickied threads. Dart's Carrara Information Manual thread has links to many tutorials. Cripeman's youtube tutorials come to mind as a good possibility.

Carrara can rig and you set the influences by weight painting in the vertex modeler.

For animation capabilities, Carrara has NLA clips (Non-Linear Animation) which can be layered and moved about freely along the timeline. Carrara has many different tweeners, a keyframe graph editor, deformers, rigid body physics, fire and fog primitives, etc. Just about anything in Carrara can be animated, including most shader functions. There's just too mcuh to list specifically.

evilproducer

Oh yeah, you can UV map in C7 Pro. It has seams and pinning as well. Not that I really understand it. I'm kind of schnook at UV mapping.

Dartanbeck

Agreed.
First of all... I am a Carrara kind of guy... so I might sound a bit biased in this regard.

But in reading your initial post, it just sounds to me like Carrara is really what you need. Here are my thoughts as to "Why":

Model, rig, and make morphs and then animate all in one app... man... if you find Hex easy to model in... you should really give Carrara a try.

In Carrara 7 and newer, we have gained the ability to model, and edit models in what we call the Assembly Room, which is the main scene building and animating view... the room that you're in when you begin working in Carrara. There are many advantages to working on models in the Model Room, too... so that's where it's good to keep that space like it is. But in the Assembly Room, you can create new, or edit existing models while still having other scene elements in the same view... but the only thing that you can select during the editing process is the model that you've selected to work on.

Wow... what a mouthful. But it's very true and makes a level of efficiency that I truly love.

For adding emotion to any figure, we need to add morphs. Well you can make all the morphs you want on all of your creatures right in Carrara. Tweak them, add new ones... really easy, really powerful, really nice. Do keep in mind that I'm just in overview mode right now - not tutorial mode.

As shown in the link above to Dimension Theory's rigging tutorial, rigging in Carrara is simple, and works very well.

Carrara's Texture Room is amazing towards creating shaders (materials) for your creations. Endless possibilities - easy to use.

Landscapes are amazingly easy and fun to make in Carrara.

Yeah, Carrara 7 Pro is excellent software. You should find it to be all that you need.

You can use it to make animations that you can then load into the backdrop - like a moving screen behind another animation render.
Here is one such example, where I've used Carrara and Project Dogwaffle Pro: Howler 8.2 (an inexpensive video/image editing software sold here, at DAZ 3D) back and forth, from one then to the other, and back again, to create the rainstorm backdrop. Then I dropped in the walking figure in Carrara with the rain storm playing in the backdrop, and rendered that. Then one more time into Howler for the final pass of rainfall. I also made video textures for the figure, that make the specular highlights and bump move with the rain.
Walking in the Storm

The first 1:40 of this Dartanbeck Babble Session, regarding the DIM, has a fun little animation that I threw together very quickly, just because I wanted an intro for the boring screen-grab babble thing. But helps to show that, with just Carrara, we really can make some cool animations.
DIM 101 Babble Session
I prefer to add extra effects using Howler because it's so fast to work with, and has a bazillion post effects. But you could also do a lot of this stuff directly in Carrara, if you want. I've spent several years doing no post work at all - everything done directly in Carrara!
This was an early thing. I was testing out Sony's lesser expensive Vegas Movie HD Studio. In the test, I went through all of my test render animation files that were not yet deleted, and stitched them into a bit of a movie/story... besides using the movie editor, these clips have no post work. Everything done in Carrara.
Just a Bit of Fun

Beyond just tutorials, Carrara has this forum and the Carrara Cafe, which are excellent places to ask questions and get answers, which can be a lot more powerful than tutorials. But we try to keep links of tutorials as up-to-date as possible. There's a lot out there.

Don't forget to check out Cripeman's Video Tutorials Index

franontheedge

wendy♥catz said:

yes to all of the above
and C7pro fine, Evil Producer a carrara forum regular uses it
just no good for genesis and Daz triax content
for do it yourself modeling rigging and animation is perfectly ok

Good, great, that's fine, doesn't matter that it's no good for Genesis, I don't want Genesis.
Brilliant in fact!

the carrara mimic plugin for C7 if you can still get it is good for use on self made with morph targets created mesh too.

I tried to look for this but Daz just insists on trying to sell you Carrara 8 or 8.5.
(cripes it's expensive!)
Althought the plug in is mentioned in the daz3d search box there's no sign of it anywhere.

look on the carrara firum, at cripeman and DimensionT tutes on youtube
maybe buy PhilW training vids (I never have but others rave about them)

Don't use that naughty word!!! lol. (I mean "buy")

that said, Daz studio rigging still worth learning, it has some advantages such as DS & Poser compatibility and one thing I realy like, ability to add bones to rigged weightpainted mesh which carrara cannot do, you need to re weightpaint if adding bones.

Well yes, having used the last bit of money I am ever likely to see on this tutorial, (I wasted some angst over that decision I can tell you!) I am not about to let that be wasted, so too right I'm going to finish that tutorial, if that will enable me to learn even just a bit about rigging in DS.
I'm not sure that Poser compatability holds any sway over me though.... Not being into figures, Poser has never really had much attractivness for me. Although I did get Poser 5 when it was free... well... it was free.

franontheedge

cginsomniac said:

Really you should be fine rigging your characters in Carrara 7. You have plenty of tools for what you are looking to do. If you did all the modeling, texture, etc in Carrara it would probably be easier to just stay in Carrara.

Plenty of good resources out there to get you started:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4N2jx0gc5I

Thanks for the link, he makes it look simple.

P.S. No I didn't do all the modelling, UVMapping, texturing etc in Cararra, I did it all in Wings3d.
But I did really enjoy the little taste I had of sweep a circle around a wiggly line - felt easier than C4D's sweep does.
So I want to try more modelling in Cararra, just to see what it's like.

franontheedge

evilproducer said:

Carrara’s rigging system is pretty much the same as it has been. If you see a rigging tutorial for C8 or C8.5 it should still be mostly relevant. There may be some minor UI differences, but the tools should all still be there.

I use C7.2 Pro still, so if you do find tutorials that are later than C7, and you don’t know where I a tool is, I may be able to help.

Good to know, thanks.

The top of the forum has some stickied threads. Dart’s Carrara Information Manual thread has links to many tutorials. Cripeman’s youtube tutorials come to mind as a good possibility.

That was my next step, yeah.

Carrara can rig and you set the influences by weight painting in the vertex modeler.

Lovely.

For animation capabilities, Carrara has NLA clips (Non-Linear Animation) which can be layered and moved about freely along the timeline. Carrara has many different tweeners, a keyframe graph editor, deformers, rigid body physics, fire and fog primitives, etc. Just about anything in Carrara can be animated, including most shader functions. There’s just too mcuh to list specifically.

This sounds very interesting, I'd like to know more about this.
(Like: NLA? What sort of different tweeners? what kind of deformers? I've seen the keyframe graph editor, did a little basic animation test.) Too much to list? great, it sounds like fun. (Especially the physics, fire and fog!)

Oh yeah, you can UV map in C7 Pro. It has seams and pinning as well. Not that I really understand it. I'm kind of schnook at UV mapping.

Well, I'm pretty okay on UVMapping - in Wings3d that is. I'll have to take a look at C7Pro's UV Mapping.

Thanks.

franontheedge

Dartanbeck said:

Agreed.
First of all... I am a Carrara kind of guy... so I might sound a bit biased in this regard.

But in reading your initial post, it just sounds to me like Carrara is really what you need. Here are my thoughts as to "Why":

Model, rig, and make morphs and then animate all in one app... man... if you find Hex easy to model in... you should really give Carrara a try.

In Carrara 7 and newer, we have gained the ability to model, and edit models in what we call the Assembly Room, which is the main scene building and animating view... the room that you're in when you begin working in Carrara. There are many advantages to working on models in the Model Room, too... so that's where it's good to keep that space like it is. But in the Assembly Room, you can create new, or edit existing models while still having other scene elements in the same view... but the only thing that you can select during the editing process is the model that you've selected to work on.

Wow... what a mouthful.

No no, please go on.

But it's very true and makes a level of efficiency that I truly love.

For adding emotion to any figure, we need to add morphs. Well you can make all the morphs you want on all of your creatures right in Carrara. Tweak them, add new ones... really easy, really powerful, really nice.

Oh so that's what morphs are for! I couldn't see the point of morphing a figure you'd created into one with a fin or horns. So you don't rig the face with bones for creating emotion then? But with these morph thingies? Sorry, I'm not up to scratch with figures, since until I modelled my own characters I had no interest in using figures at all.

Do keep in mind that I'm just in overview mode right now - not tutorial mode.

As shown in the link above to Dimension Theory's rigging tutorial, rigging in Carrara is simple, and works very well.

Carrara's Texture Room is amazing towards creating shaders (materials) for your creations. Endless possibilities - easy to use.

Landscapes are amazingly easy and fun to make in Carrara.

Oh yes? I don't want to just plonk a few mountains down and use default materials for them, I have a specific look in mind for this work, it's basically a black and white world with little odd touches of colour, like the characters – and sometimes colour is provided by just lights. (Like a simple coloured light, or light being cast through the stained glass of a lantern, or a blue glow from... something or other, stuff like that. But the black and white world is dominated by patterns shown up by the black and white.)

Yeah, Carrara 7 Pro is excellent software. You should find it to be all that you need.

You can use it to make animations that you can then load into the backdrop - like a moving screen behind another animation render.
Here is one such example, where I've used Carrara and Project Dogwaffle Pro: Howler 8.2 (an inexpensive video/image editing software sold here, at DAZ 3D) back and forth, from one then to the other, and back again, to create the rainstorm backdrop. Then I dropped in the walking figure in Carrara with the rain storm playing in the backdrop, and rendered that. Then one more time into Howler for the final pass of rainfall. I also made video textures for the figure, that make the specular highlights and bump move with the rain.
Walking in the Storm

Yes, I had a look at that, thanks for the link, very interesting. (I already have video editing software (Premiere Pro and After Effects CS4,) and lucky to get that on an Edu licence while I was at Uni.)

The first 1:40 of this Dartanbeck Babble Session, regarding the DIM, has a fun little animation that I threw together very quickly, just because I wanted an intro for the boring screen-grab babble thing. But helps to show that, with just Carrara, we really can make some cool animations.
DIM 101 Babble Session
I prefer to add extra effects using Howler because it's so fast to work with, and has a bazillion post effects. But you could also do a lot of this stuff directly in Carrara, if you want. I've spent several years doing no post work at all - everything done directly in Carrara!
This was an early thing. I was testing out Sony's lesser expensive Vegas Movie HD Studio. In the test, I went through all of my test render animation files that were not yet deleted, and stitched them into a bit of a movie/story... besides using the movie editor, these clips have no post work. Everything done in Carrara.
Just a Bit of Fun

I see you have an awful lot of just walking animations, I hope I can get a good walk cycle for my characters, one in particular I see as having a specific sort of walk, like a laid back stroll, I expect to have problems with getting that smooth enough... if I can get the character rigged to start with.

Beyond just tutorials, Carrara has this forum and the Carrara Cafe, which are excellent places to ask questions and get answers, which can be a lot more powerful than tutorials. But we try to keep links of tutorials as up-to-date as possible. There's a lot out there.

Don't forget to check out Cripeman's Video Tutorials Index

I certainly will (seen a couple of his already). It's great to have a good forum base for learning software and keeps you going when things get sticky too...

Thanks very much for the detailed reply.

Dartanbeck

Yes, back when I pieced Just for Fun together, it was a bunch of walking tests and perhaps a few other things. I've grown a bit since then, but haven't released anything new as far as animation work videos. Keeping a lot of that to myself right now as I work and grow.

Black and white will be your problem to resolve as the one with the idea, for sure. But, yeah... Terrains are a blast to make. Personally, I like to make them in pieces, rather than one single chunk.

franontheedge

Dartanbeck said:

Yes, back when I pieced Just for Fun together, it was a bunch of walking tests and perhaps a few other things. I've grown a bit since then, but haven't released anything new as far as animation work videos. Keeping a lot of that to myself right now as I work and grow.

Black and white will be your problem to resolve as the one with the idea, for sure. But, yeah... Terrains are a blast to make. Personally, I like to make them in pieces, rather than one single chunk.

I don't see the black and white being a problem.

When you say terrains are a blast to make - do you mean great fun, or terribly hard?
I wasn't really thinking of terrains - not unless I use a few in the background, I was thinking of making streets, cobbled streets. Can you use displacement maps or a displacement channel in a texture to create more tooth than a bump map does?

Bryce can do that but it's something Daz hasn't fixed yet so it crashes Bryce - a lot, almost always in fact. But C4D does great things with displacement. Dunno about Blender, but I was wondering about Carrara?

Dartanbeck

I mean it's fun, addictive, and easy to get some great results!
Yeah, I don't see B&W as a problem either. Just that the idea has many way to interpret... so it could go many ways. I I were to do it to a terrain that I made using the terrain editor, I'd just make everything white and let the shadows and lights do the rest :)

Displacement maps are so powerful, that PhilW demonstrates how to make a whole city (Windows mapped on and everything) using nothing but a flat plane and a displacement map - with a well designed shader to make the brick sides and windows, roofs, etc., in his Advanced Carrara Techniques set by Infinite Skills.

You'll see... in Carrara, whatever version (not familiar with pre-version 6) there a lot more that you CAN do that what you CANNOT.
Some of us agree that if we cannot do something, it's only because we haven't thought of a way yet. It really can help you to do anything you want. There's an inexpensive book at Amazon called Figures, Characters, and Avatars that comes with Carrara 6 Pro. That's how I got my copy of 6 (though I went straight to using 8 Pro beta, and never went back), except back then DAZ 3D sold the book, so bought it here.
It's by Les Pardew, and Amazon has two versions. I'm talking about the earlier one with this cover. I don't know if the newer edition came with Carrara and Hexagon or not. But mine came with Carrara 6 Pro, Hexagon 2, DAZ Studio 2.3, and a load of great free DAZ goodies!

franontheedge

Dartanbeck said:

I mean it's fun, addictive, and easy to get some great results!
Yeah, I don't see B&W as a problem either. Just that the idea has many way to interpret... so it could go many ways. I I were to do it to a terrain that I made using the terrain editor, I'd just make everything white and let the shadows and lights do the rest :)

Displacement maps are so powerful, that PhilW demonstrates how to make a whole city (Windows mapped on and everything) using nothing but a flat plane and a displacement map - with a well designed shader to make the brick sides and windows, roofs, etc., in his Advanced Carrara Techniques set by Infinite Skills.

You'll see... in Carrara, whatever version (not familiar with pre-version 6) there a lot more that you CAN do that what you CANNOT.
Some of us agree that if we cannot do something, it's only because we haven't thought of a way yet. It really can help you to do anything you want. There's an inexpensive book at Amazon called Figures, Characters, and Avatars that comes with Carrara 6 Pro. That's how I got my copy of 6 (though I went straight to using 8 Pro beta, and never went back), except back then DAZ 3D sold the book, so bought it here.
It's by Les Pardew, and Amazon has two versions. I'm talking about the earlier one with this cover. I don't know if the newer edition came with Carrara and Hexagon or not. But mine came with Carrara 6 Pro, Hexagon 2, DAZ Studio 2.3, and a load of great free DAZ goodies!

Um... do you mind if we limit the discussion to only those things that are free?
At least until either I have done enough free tutorials to decide if Carrara 7 Pro is the program to use all the way through, or until (unlikely!) I manage to get some models in the store to sell, or rather until I actually sell something. Otherwise I'm limited to trying to persuade my husband that such and such an item is absolutely essential, and that would probably be limited to 1 item per month at about £20 per month – if I'm lucky!

I did have £14.00 but I used £11.00 of that on the "Rigging Original Figures in Daz4" tutorial. Which I'm still battling through as every time there's a step missed out of the PDF, I have to wait ages for a reply before I can move on.
I prefer video tuts – nice slow ones without too much waffle, or intros that seem to last forever or background music that spoils your concentration. Most of the ones I've seen on Carrara so far have been pretty good.

What I would like to be able to do, is find some tutorials (for beginners) on modelling a fairly simple item, perhaps continuing to UVMap it, texture it, then to rig and animate it.
So not a box (cos it's pointless rigging a box!) although I do like boxes, crates and street bins etc etc.

A sort of basic run through to get an overview of most of the areas of Carrara, you could then go on if you wished to concentrate on modelling for instance, to do some more in-depth modelling tutorials, or more in-depth rigging tutorials if you wanted to go in that direction.

Is there perhaps a list of tutorials somewhere with a set of basic tutorials? And then perhaps a set of intermediate tutorials? Followed by perhaps more in-depth tutorials?

That would be really useful.

I mean, I do want to rig my own characters, but a more basic run through would perhaps be a good idea to start with. Don't you think?

By the way, sterling work on the Carrara manual!

I was going to vote on the film, the Carrara Community Project one. But that seemed to be active only at the beginning of 2013, so a decision has probably already been made on that by now, -- is it still going on? Or has it folded?

It would be nice if I could get up to scratch with working in Carrara, to join in on something like that. I need some tutorials under my belt to get to that point though. Or to at least find out if I can.

(P.S. I did look on Amazon for that book but as it seems to be for DazStudio and not Carrara, and the same thing seems to range from 12 quid to 66 quid, it's confusing to say the least. I'd rather stick with Carrara and with free stuff for now).

3DAGE

HI Fran on the edge

Welcome :)

I hope you're already discovering that there's a bunch of very helpful people here.. :)

From the example image of your figures,. you shouldn't have any big issues when you're rigging those.

My advice would be to create a couple of simple "things" in the Vertex modeller, then go through the process of creating bones in the assembly room (using the Bone tool in a Isometric view (Flat view) such as the Front, Left etc..),. and attaching that Skeleton to the model,..(Select the Model, Shift select the Bones, Go to Animation menu, Choose Attach Skeleton) then finally moving the bones to see how that effects the model.

You can also detach the skeleton just as easily. (select the "Model", Go to the "Animation" menu, choose "Detach skeleton" )

It's useful to run through the processes a few times,. to make sure you understand what you're doing, and why it's done that way.

The Vertex modeller (sounds scary) but it's your new friend.

You can create a simple vertex object, like a sphere,. and add legs by selecting a couple of polygons and extruding them.
that will make most of your characters,.
The Tall thin character is just as simple to create,. but the way you have the legs, may be a challenge to animate :).

As for UV Mapping,.. that shouldn't be a big problem, just another learning process,. and again you should practice a few times to get the hang of what the UV projection mapping is and does.

quick rig example:

Hope it helps :)

Dartanbeck

franontheedge said:

Um... do you mind if we limit the discussion to only those things that are free?
Sure.
►►► Carrara Information Manual ◄◄◄
Is there perhaps a list of tutorials somewhere with a set of basic tutorials? And then perhaps a set of intermediate tutorials? Followed by perhaps more in-depth tutorials?

Aside from above, I had to save up for mine... still trying to save for more.

The other option, perhaps, is to ask questions here, in the forum.

So... you already have Carrara 7 Pro?
Perhaps if we knew just a tidbit of what you're trying to do, but failing at, we could help a bit more.
Some folks spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn what you appear to be asking for in college! ;)
I'm not saying that you have to spend money to learn... the training course that I've mentioned, while $100 USD, is exactly what you're looking for. Clear, concise, professional training. We're volunteers who are glad to help anyone who asks for it... but we can't just write a post that teaches the entire workflow of modeling and rigging, morphing, lighting, rendering, etc., as we have financial concerns to deal with too.

But we are pretty good at helping one learn the software, and the major techniques... and we enjoy doing so.

3DAGE

HI Fran :)

I have to agree with Dartanbeck, regarding the scope of what you want to learn, but we're here to help each other if we can. .. so...

let's take some baby steps...

If you tell us what you want to learn first (perhaps modelling) ..then we can work on what objects you want to learn to model, (you'll also learn the tools and functions common in all modelling programs as you work.

Each skill you want to develop, is a different process,. EG: modelling, texturing , animating,. and if you look at the end credits of a film) you'll see credits for a whole team of Texture artists...., Animators,... Modellers.. etc.
..and they're not usually the same person :)

so,. if you're saying , teach me everything, so that I can do it all,.. that's quite a lot to learn, and it won't happen overnight.

You want help,.. people here will try to help you.

Hope it helps :)

DUDU

3DAGE said:

HI Fran :)

...

You want help,.. people here will try to help you.

Hope it helps :)

...and learn with you !

Dartanbeck

Yikes! I read my last post and I think I sounded really mean. You'll come to learn that I'm not mean. But I've edited the post a little ;)

Also, I would like to add that I like to share the idea that those learning tools that do cost some dough are out there for us... but please know that I totally understand that we cannot just jump out and buy it - just like that. Sorry if I made it sound like that.

The Infinite Skills videos done by Phil Wilkes are excellent courses, full of working files that you can load into Carrara to 'see' exactly what his lessons are about, and he's right to the point without skipping stuff - as each lesson provides a final product, and he explains the entire process through. I'm just saying this so that if you ever do come up with a extra pile of funds that can go towards something really worthwhile... many of us recommend the series.

I haven't got the Basic Training one yet, which has now been updated for Carrara 8.5. I have the Advanced Training, and it covers UV Mapping, Modeling in several ways, 3d paint, Rigging, building shaders (textures), and a whole lot more. So I just wanted to let you know... but I'll totally respect your wishes and focus on 'free' from here out...

Believe me, I totally understand that! Truly!

►►► Carrara Information Manual ◄◄◄ has some features that I'd like to highlight, since the table of contents is a bit out of control... kinda like the author of the thing :ahhh:

Dartanbeck

► Forum Help Links is actually an index to threads from throughout this forum, so that we can look through questions that have already been asked, and see what sort of advice has been given on any of those particular topics. It was my view that, by indexing Q/A threads in such a way, it can be an easier way to quickly navigate to some subjects that have really gone far with explanations.

The list needs updating, which I'll be doing very soon. And some topics might not have actually been resolved completely yet.

Part of the benefit of visiting question that have already been asked, is that people whom are interested in the topic will get an e-mail when a fresh reply is made. So it's like a direct ticket to quicker responses in many situations. As these individual threads grow, the better they answer the intricacies of the topic - which helps us all.

Never feel nervous about asking new questions. Never feel nervous to say: "I read what you wrote, but I still don't understand"
Except for 3dage, we've all been beginners at one point. 3dage came out of the womb knowing how it all works... lucky bugger!

Comprehensive List of Video Tutorials on Carrara, by Fractal Dimensia is something you've likely already found. Right?

C3DE Magazine (Carrara 3D Expo) is free, and an excellent source of great Carrara information. I love this mag!

Carrara Cafe also has a bunch of cool articles, tutorials, and links.

If you already own Carrara 7 Pro, you should know that you have the power to do all of the things you've said that you would like to do. And you'll learn quickly, because of the interface, that almost teaches you new things the more you play around with it. The Dimension Theory video tutorial on rigging - he does make it look easy. It really is easy! Perfecting weight maps is a different thing... but if you don't have thin fingers to rig separately, it gets easier. Most simple figures that I've rigged in Carrara needed very little to no weight map editing - they just worked great.

Go ahead... dig in and play. If you get stuck (or not), we're here.

evilproducer

If you want a freebie to examine, I made one a while ago. I used displacement to create a stone wall/fence. Just in case you don't want to download the file, the stone wall/fence is visible in the promo shot with the knight galloping towards the tower with the dragon on it.

http://www.sharecg.com/v/69697/view/5/3D-Model/Fantasy-Village-terrain

Edited to add that I forgot the link! Duh-h-h! ;-)

franontheedge

3DAGE said:

HI Fran on the edge

Welcome :)

I hope you're already discovering that there's a bunch of very helpful people here.. :)

Thank you for the welcome, yes indeedy, that's what so exciting!

From the example image of your figures,. you shouldn't have any big issues when you're rigging those.

Good. Nice to hear.

My advice would be to create a couple of simple "things" in the Vertex modeller, then go through the process of creating bones in the assembly room

Lol! Exactly what I had in mind.

(using the Bone tool in a Isometric view (Flat view) such as the Front, Left etc..),. and attaching that Skeleton to the model,..(Select the Model, Shift select the Bones, Go to Animation menu, Choose Attach Skeleton) then finally moving the bones to see how that effects the model.

You can also detach the skeleton just as easily. (select the "Model", Go to the "Animation" menu, choose "Detach skeleton" )

Oh great, that's good to know – so you can 'attach', then if you see any problems 'detach' and fix and try again – sounds like a really helpful function, thanks.

It's useful to run through the processes a few times,. to make sure you understand what you're doing, and why it's done that way.

Well, sometimes you never do find out 'why it's done that way'.

The Vertex modeller (sounds scary) but it's your new friend.

I reserve judgment, it's a bit complex getting into there, it doesn't look immediately logical – but I'll see how it goes...

You can create a simple vertex object, like a sphere,. and add legs by selecting a couple of polygons and extruding them.

Um... yes.... that's not how I made them though.

that will make most of your characters,.
The Tall thin character is just as simple to create,. but the way you have the legs, may be a challenge to animate :).

Yes, I was aware of that possibility – I can always change the angle of the legs if necessary.

As for UV Mapping,.. that shouldn't be a big problem, just another learning process,. and again you should practice a few times to get the hang of what the UV projection mapping is and does.

Well... actually those characters in the image are all already UVMapped and textured – that's how come they have textures on them... And so far I'm okay with UVMapping (in Wings3d) I've done a little UV Mapping in Hexagon – didn’t like it as much as the Wings UVMapper, but then I'm more used to that, having used it for some years now.

quick rig example:

Hope it helps :)

Yes, interesting – I see you didn’t use a separate bone for the ankle, is that just because it was a quick example or is that something relevant to Carrara's rigging methods?

I've only done a very little rigging before. (In C4D rel 10.5) and now I'm investigating DazStudio's rigging. I want to try out Cararra's too, once I'm a little more familiar with the GUI etc. Gimme a few days.

FranOnTheEdge

franontheedge

Dartanbeck said:

franontheedge said:

Um... do you mind if we limit the discussion to only those things that are free?
Sure.
►►► Carrara Information Manual ◄◄◄

Yes, I am looking at that, I promise you, however I did find that some of the areas I wanted to investigate just had "html///" as the page, not an actual page with info on it.

Dartanbeck said:

franontheedge said:

Is there perhaps a list of tutorials somewhere with a set of basic tutorials? And then perhaps a set of intermediate tutorials? Followed by perhaps more in-depth tutorials? Aside from above, I had to save up for mine... still trying to save for more.

The other option, perhaps, is to ask questions here, in the forum.

Yep, that could be why I'm asking. Lol! (sorry, facetious of me, I'll try and be quiet and good.)

Dartanbeck said:

So... you already have Carrara 7 Pro?

Yup.

Perhaps if we knew just a tidbit of what you're trying to do, but failing at, we could help a bit more.

Well when I do fail to accomplish things, I am asking. You want to know what I want to accomplish? I want to learn how to rig and animate the characters... hang on, I wonder if I can get them all into Carrara... I'll be back in a few hours...

Some folks spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn what you appear to be asking for in college! ;)

I'm sorry? In college? You think I'm in college... [Stops and thinks about this,] am I coming over as that young/daft/feckless/stupid... yes, probably all of the above, nods head mock wisely. Oh good, at least I like the young part (grandma for the 4th time in November) daft, feckless and stupid? – oh okay those too. Still in debt from University? Yes, I'm afraid that too is true. It haunts me sometimes.

I'm not saying that you have to spend money to learn... the training course that I've mentioned, while $100 USD, is exactly what you're looking for. Clear, concise, professional training. We're volunteers who are glad to help anyone who asks for it... but we can't just write a post that teaches the entire workflow of modeling and rigging, morphing, lighting, rendering, etc., as we have financial concerns to deal with too.

No no, obviously I have to ask specific questions, I do understand that, I was just suddenly so enthusiastic about so many people answering my feeble posts – I thought WOW!

But we are pretty good at helping one learn the software, and the major techniques... and we enjoy doing so.

Good, I too have enjoyed the few tutorials I've done. If you get feedback it can be a wonderful feeling can't it?

Right, I'm going to go off and see just how hard it is to get these character models of mine into Carrara.

Okay, this is what I have after a few minutes: the actual characters are okay – textures might need a little adjusting but the thing that's bothering me most right now is the Palace floor – it's totally ruined. And I'm not sure why.

Dartanbeck

franontheedge said:

Okay, this is what I have after a few minutes: the actual characters are okay – textures might need a little adjusting but the thing that's bothering me most right now is the Palace floor – it's totally ruined. And I'm not sure why.

Looks to me like a UV Map issue... just by how the texture is all stretched out of whack.

One thing you could try to quickly fix that, is to select the floor from the instances tray (the list on the right, under the word "Scene") and enter the Texture Room.

Leave the shader as it is for now, except for the very top channel, try changing that from "Mult-Channel" to Projection > Flat Mapping

It's worth trying.

Yes... I like your characters! They're looking great!

EDIT: Oooops... forgot the pic... here you go!

3DAGE

HI Franontheedge :)

I see you didn’t use a separate bone for the ankle, is that just because it was a quick example or is that something relevant to Carrara’s rigging methods?

No, you shouldn't need a separate bone for the ankle,. ..
The bottom of the lower leg (shin) bone, is connected to the Foot bone, and that connection creates the ankle joint.

You can create a simple vertex object, like a sphere,. and add legs by selecting a couple of polygons and extruding them.

Um… yes…. that’s not how I made them though.

How did you make the legs ? are they part of the model ?, Separate poly-meshes,.. or part of a figure !

Normally your model is a single object (which can include separate poly-meshes) EG: eyes. teeth etc.

so you can ‘attach’, then if you see any problems ‘detach’ and fix and try again – sounds like a really helpful function, thanks.

The Process is normally,. Attach skeleton to model,. then test the joints and see what's working well and what's not,. then adjust the "Weight mapping" (how each bone effects the mesh area around it) . this can fix issues in the "Automatic" weight mapping, which carrara creates when you atach the skeleton to the model.

You can adjust the weights by painting (add or subtract) using the Weight painting tools in the Vertex Modeller.
(you need to be in "Animation mode" to access the weight painting tools)

When you're learning something new, and unfamiliar with the processes or tools, it can be easy to make mistakes when you're adding bones, and in that scenario,. it's an easy step to simply detach the bones from the mesh and fix them,.. or create a better skeleton.

The drawback of detaching the skeleton from the model is that any "Weight painting" you've done,.. will be lost... since carrara assumes that you've decided that the current rig is wrong,.. and will be removed,.. fixed,.. and re-weighted.

RE: Vertex Modeller
I reserve judgement, it’s a bit complex getting into there, it doesn’t look immediately logical – but I’ll see how it goes…

The modellers allow you to create whatever you want, so,..A logical work-flow would be dependant on what you want to make, and how you prefer to work to construct that model.

It's more free-form, ..do what you want,. rather than a series of fixed steps in a predefined process. (although there are fixed steps within some modelling functions)

You can start with a vertex primitive, like a cube or sphere, and then extrude and shape that,...
Or,..
Create a couple of lines and sweep, or rail them etc..
Or,..
Create a 2D line shape and use one of the modelling functions like "organic" to take the 2D shape and make it 3D.
Or,.
You could create a set of lines to define the basic shape of your model, and use one of the modelling tools like Coons or Gordons to
create the poly-mesh from those lines.

franontheedge

Dartanbeck said:

franontheedge said:

Okay, this is what I have after a few minutes: the actual characters are okay – textures might need a little adjusting but the thing that's bothering me most right now is the Palace floor – it's totally ruined. And I'm not sure why.

Looks to me like a UV Map issue... just by how the texture is all stretched out of whack.

One thing you could try to quickly fix that, is to select the floor from the instances tray (the list on the right, under the word "Scene") and enter the Texture Room.

Leave the shader as it is for now, except for the very top channel, try changing that from "Mult-Channel" to Projection > Flat Mapping

It's worth trying.

Yes... I like your characters! They're looking great!

EDIT: Oooops... forgot the pic... here you go!

Okay I'll try that.

Um, one more question, I did a little animation test yesterday or the day before and ever since I'm stuck with 'Animate' along the bottom menu, I can't add any content (not that I have much, but...) nor can I look to see if I have any light set ups - one of the tutorials had a guy saying "add a decent light setup - pulease!" and I wanted to have a look.
This tut:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpkTXREwTWk

Dartanbeck

In the above image, where it says "Stuck with this", go directly between the t and the u in Stuck, and follow straight down to see a little blue capsule-shaped button, laying sideways with a little white thingy in the center. Grab that button with your mouse and drag it upwards. Sometimes you can just click on it, and the whole thing pops back up. But if that doesn't work, grab it and drag.

This works great for getting extra real estate on the screen.

franontheedge

3DAGE said:

HI Fran :)

I have to agree with Dartanbeck, regarding the scope of what you want to learn, but we're here to help each other if we can. .. so...

///

If you tell us what you want to learn first (perhaps modelling) ..then we can work on what objects you want to learn to model, (you'll also learn the tools and functions common in all modelling programs as you work.

Each skill you want to develop, is a different process,. EG: modelling, texturing , animating,. and if you look at the end credits of a film) you'll see credits for a whole team of Texture artists...., Animators,... Modellers.. etc.
..and they're not usually the same person :)

so,. if you're saying , teach me everything, so that I can do it all,.. that's quite a lot to learn, and it won't happen overnight.

You want help,.. people here will try to help you.

Hope it helps :)

Regarding the scope of what I want to learn – well I didn't want to leave anything out, did I? But I do realise that you can't do everything at once, more's the pity.

Yes, I often do look at the end credits of films and I'm always thrilled when it's all the same person.

Overnight? I should think your brain would explode. Lol!
I just like to make preliminary lists.

DUDU_00001 said:

...and learn with you !

Oh, that's great. Learning together is so much more fun.

Dartanbeck said:

Yikes! I read my last post and I think I sounded really mean. You'll come to learn that I'm not mean. But I've edited the post a little ;)

Oh? I guess I must have missed that – I went to bed, we all have to sleep sometimes. The post now doesn't seem mean at all.
I suppose one day we'll be able to respond with something like a voicemail, so that people's expressions, and tone of voice can say what the printed word often cannot.

Also, I would like to add that I like to share the idea that those learning tools that do cost some dough are out there for us... but please know that I totally understand that we cannot just jump out and buy it - just like that. Sorry if I made it sound like that.

I'm used to it, people do it all the time I've found. I've always been somewhat strapped for cash, except for one small glorious 5 years, 2 spent at college and 3 at university. During which time I was lucky enough to obtain some nice bits of kit at educational prices, but they are getting old now, nearly obsolete, and tutorials for them are now almost non existant, which is one more reason that I am investigating other software.

I got the Adobe Production Suite CS4, which included PhotoShop, Premiere Pro, After Effects, SoundBooth, Illustrator, Bridge and a few other bits. Plus I got Cinema4D rel 10.5, but in different years.

The Infinite Skills videos done by Phil Wilkes are excellent courses, full of working files that you can load into Carrara to 'see' exactly what his lessons are about, and he's right to the point without skipping stuff - as each lesson provides a final product, and he explains the entire process through. I'm just saying this so that if you ever do come up with a extra pile of funds that can go towards something really worthwhile... many of us recommend the series.

If ever I should win the lottery – or be finally able to get something into the store (and sell any of it) I will certainly be looking at various possibilities, it might be new software and training – it might only run to a new pair of socks! Lol.

I haven't got the Basic Training one yet, which has now been updated for Carrara 8.5. I have the Advanced Training, and it covers UV Mapping, Modeling in several ways, 3d paint, Rigging, building shaders (textures), and a whole lot more. So I just wanted to let you know... but I'll totally respect your wishes and focus on 'free' from here out...
snip///

Thank you.

franontheedge

Dartanbeck said:

► Forum Help Links is actually an index to threads from throughout this forum, so that we can look through questions that have already been asked, and see what sort of advice has been given on any of those particular topics. It was my view that, by indexing Q/A threads in such a way, it can be an easier way to quickly navigate to some subjects that have really gone far with explanations.

Oh right.
That's a very sensible idea.

snip (Okay)

Never feel nervous about asking new questions. Never feel nervous to say: "I read what you wrote, but I still don't understand"

Oh good – I often feel that way.

Except for 3dage, we've all been beginners at one point. 3dage came out of the womb knowing how it all works... lucky bugger!

ggg, there's always one.

Comprehensive List of Video Tutorials on Carrara, by Fractal Dimensia is something you've likely already found. Right?

No, I hadn't actually. You get told about people's video tutorials, so you go off and watch some – & it takes up time you know.

C3DE Magazine (Carrara 3D Expo) is free, and an excellent source of great Carrara information. I love this mag!

Carrara Cafe also has a bunch of cool articles, tutorials, and links.

I went there briefly but the format of the place is so different from the Daz3d forums that things were difficult to follow. I'll take another look later.

If you already own Carrara 7 Pro, you should know that you have the power to do all of the things you've said that you would like to do. And you'll learn quickly, because of the interface, that almost teaches you new things the more you play around with it.

Um.. I'm not so sure that the interfaces teaches you or that it's so easy to move around in Carrara – I'm having problems being stuck in things, like just now with 'Animate' at the bottom and no ability to add more content as that pane is superseded by this 'Animate' pane. And before someone told me how (That Other Persona) I couldn't get into the model room with an editable object (cube in this case) – silly basic stuff like that! Makes you feel such a fool.
Especially as I just now fugured out that the tab for the content adding pane is hidden below the sequencer tab.
Duh! Smacks head.

The Dimension Theory video tutorial on rigging - he does make it look easy. It really is easy! Perfecting weight maps is a different thing... but if you don't have thin fingers to rig separately, it gets easier. Most simple figures that I've rigged in Carrara needed very little to no weight map editing - they just worked great.

I just had a thought, can a figure rigged in C4D rel 10 be imported into Carrara with rigging etc intact?
Just tried it - no. Figure arrives just fine, but no rigging (that I can see anyway). Pity.

Go ahead... dig in and play. If you get stuck (or not), we're here.

Yes, and I'm very grateful for that.

franontheedge

evilproducer said:

If you want a freebie to examine, I made one a while ago. I used displacement to create a stone wall/fence. Just in case you don't want to download the file, the stone wall/fence is visible in the promo shot with the knight galloping towards the tower with the dragon on it.

http://www.sharecg.com/v/69697/view/5/3D-Model/Fantasy-Village-terrain

Edited to add that I forgot the link! Duh-h-h! ;-)

Oh interesting...I've now downloaded that, I'll go take a look at it.

franontheedge

Dartanbeck said:

franontheedge said:

Okay, this is what I have after a few minutes: the actual characters are okay – textures might need a little adjusting but the thing that's bothering me most right now is the Palace floor – it's totally ruined. And I'm not sure why.Looks to me like a UV Map issue... just by how the texture is all stretched out of whack.

One thing you could try to quickly fix that, is to select the floor from the instances tray (the list on the right, under the word "Scene") and enter the Texture Room.

Leave the shader as it is for now, except for the very top channel, try changing that from "Mult-Channel" to Projection > Flat Mapping

It's worth trying.

Yes, unfortunately it didn’t work, so I nipped off and reUVmapped that part – it was as I suspected, that only the visible face had been UVMapped, I'll know that in future all faces even if you'll never see them – should be UV Mapped for use in Carrara... sigh.

Yes... I like your characters! They're looking great!

EDIT: Oooops... forgot the pic... here you go!

Really? Oh, thank you very much.
I have about 5 more to make:

Pea-Tar the Great: King of Pealand.
PrincessPea: his daughter, she loves shoes.
Pea-Brain: a professorial type always loosing his glasses and loves planning things.
Ha-Pea: a young teenaged Pea, loves listening to music on his Pea-Pod.
BeefCake: the palace guard. A sergeant at arms, soldierly type, he carries a trident or pitch fork and wears a sash with his medal on it.

And the Black Pea-Nut: Not too sure about this but I couldn't resist the idea – which is still brewing in my brain.

Here's a link to the initial sketches of some of the characters:
http://www.franontheedge.com/animation/characters.html