RAM Memory or GPU for faster and better renders?
taiuri
Posts: 590
Hi guys! I'm undecided about the laptop I must buy for getting better and faster renders in Iray. I have these 2 options:
a).- Laptop Gamer HP Omen 15-DC1004LA 15.6 Inch Intel Core i7 8GB RAM 1TB Hard Drive Nvidia GeForce GTX 1650
b).- Laptop HP Omen 15-DC0005LA I7 8750H 12GB 1TB GTX1050 15.6 Win10 2RJ29LA # ABM
Which one should I give priority? To the GPU of the option A with GTX 1650, but with 8GB RAM or to the RAM Memory of the option B with 12GB but with GPU GTX1050. Please, help me to decide.
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For Iray rendering, GPU...just note that a scene has to be able to fit entirely on the GPU for the GPU to be used.
So, the option A is the best one. Okay. Thank you for the advice!
I wish you had more options. GPU with most VRAM is the main focus but I've always found system RAM is important, too. You should have at least 16GB otherwise you'll run into slowdowns loading data and other management things the computer does.
I have a 16Gb RAM PC and on a number of occasions with 2 figures and a fairly complex background scene have come within 200Mb of filling it. Once the RAM is full, things slow down noticably.
But, on that same PC I had an ancient graphics card, and running on CPU rendering wasn't fun. Going to a modern(-ish) graphics card has been a real boon. Most 3 figure scenes will fit in the 6Gb GTX1060 I have. I really don't know if iRay can cope with shared system & graphics RAM. So, if 16Gb RAM and a GTX1650 is possible....
Regards,
Richard
Along with the issues above, GPUs by their nature generate quite a deal of heat that must be gotten rid of. Laptops are not good with regard to handling heat if your going to render for hours and hours.
Is there any particular reason you want a laptop over a decktop?
...4GB isn't very much for Iray rendering I have a 4 GB card in my assembly system and it's adequate for a single figure with clothing, hair, and a fairly simple setting (I'd avoid pushing render SubD past the default setting). With two characters or a more detailed setting the process dumps to the CPU every time. Therefore system memory is important and I would opt for 16 GB to avoid the process dropping into even slower swap mode.
If you can swing it, this gives you a lot more: a 6 GB GPU (1660 Ti) a 512 GB NVME SSD + 1 TB HDD. 16 GB system memory and a 6 core/12 thread CPU. The one drawback, it comes with W10 Home instead of Pro.
https://www.newegg.com/black-hp-omen-15/p/1TS-000D-062X8?&quicklink=true
Neither is that great imo - but I just don't like laptops for such work; they cost more for less. B is a better option, and not that bad considering. :)
I have killed 2 laptops rendering. I built a monster tower 3 years back and was able to swap my card recently. I do use a laptop with GTX 1070 to put characters build scenes ect...
Do you suggest me more a desktop over a laptop?
I would definitely tell you to get a desktop unless you need the laptop for other things. A desktop can be ventilated more easily. Rendering on a laptop once in a while is OK, but if you'll be doing a lot of renders or animation you should get a desktop and you'll very possibly get more for your money. It's easier to change your GPU as well.
Oh! Thank you so much for the advice! I'll consider that too.
I'm a huge laptop user (both literally and figuratively), and if you need a laptop, then it's the best choice (i.e. you need the portability of a laptop). But if it's just a slight preference, then you would probably be better off getting a desktop. You will get "more" for your money, and they are easily upgraded.
If you decide on a laptop, I would recommend a "gaming" laptop, and I would avoid the ultra thin and light models. Most of the thin/light laptops will either have cooling issues or the GPU and CUu will run slower to keep the heat down. A good gaming laptop with adequate space for cooling will run well, and typically hold up well under continued use with 3D. These models are more expensive, and will be heavier/larger, but IMHO the extra size/weight is worth it.
However, you can get a really nice desktop with better performance for the same amount of money.
Depending my 2080ti was more then my GTX1070 laptop but I dont use it to render just build scenes & iray preview..
Thank you for your advices, guys. Just an advice more: what trademark do you suggest me? I'm between Acer and HP. I think HP is better but what do you tell, guys?
Im an NOT an HP fan.. good service though.
I would never buy an Acer computer. Cheap, cheap, cheap. (He says while staring at his 3-year old Acer monitor.
) I'd buy another Acer monitor perhaps but not a computer. I've had too many of them in my shop for stupid reasons. I've always bought mid to high-end HP equipment and had good luck with them except for the one laptop that I blew up by overloading it's powersupply with a USB powered external fan. But that was back nearly 20 years ago. Haven't had a problem with powering external USB devices since. Why do I stick with HP? I like their website and support. And I used to work selling, installing, & consulting about high-end professional HP computers. I have history with HP as a company. So, I may be a little bit biased. But consider that often familiarity breeds contempt, whereas I have no contempt for HP.
HOWEVER, don't confuse Acer with Asus. I've found Asus to be better quality stuff.
Regarding laptop vs desktop: If you are a one computer person and you need a laptop for portability then go with a laptop but don't expect miracles from it. For anything bigger than a simple one or two person DAZ Studio scene especially if using IRay rendering instead of 3Delight rendering you're going to need a beefier machine. Laptops are very limited and fixed in their capabilities. Most desktops can be upgraded with better and faster parts over time.
HOWEVER, a cheap desktop can be a trap. It may have an old CPU and CPU socket not amenable to modern CPUs, the clock rate could be slow and not tweakable, memory slots could be limited. Choosing a desktop is perhaps more difficult than choosing a laptop.
Having been through the process of getting a new computer recently I thought building my own would save me money. It didn't. I had to learn a LOT of things about compatabilities, quality, tools & techniques. Am I happy with my new computer? Yes, oh yes. Like a pig in shit, and I had fun building it and now using it. But building your own is not for everyone.
I don't know what your selected laptops cost but it's my opinion that a computer (laptop or desktop, custom-built or off-the-shelf) suitable for DAZing is going to cost you at least $800-$1000 (US). And serious machines easily get over $1500 The desktop machine I built ended up costing me about $1600 and it's still only a moderately nice machine.
To make a long post short (too late). Choosing a new computer for DAZing is not easy.
All that being said... If you just want to play at DAZing, almost any machine will work until you find it frustrating in one way or another and realize what you need for your next machine.
Laptop generally heat up considerably during rendering. Just saying. plan for an external cooling option if you go with a laptop.
if the laptop allows aftermarket RAM upgrade and you have a monetary restriction you could wait to install more RAM. If you needed to upgrade your GPU later you're looking at an external box to house a bigger card and they tend to be as expensive, and then you need to buy the GPU.
The 1650 would be noticably faster than the 1550 but both cards are a little lacking on the CUDA cores which is a huge factor in the processing of the render provided the GPU RAM can fit the textures into memory for a GPU render.
I upgraded to 64 gig of ram. Studio is not faster. It still poorly optimizes memory. Iray is a huge hog.
I'm considering a Laptop Asus RAM 16 GB, GPU GTX 1660. What about Asus? I've never had an Asus, is it better than HP or Acer?
I have an ASUS mobo in one computer and in another an ASUS gpu. My main monitor is an ASUS. I like their components. No problems with what I own so it's lower risk than Acer.
I would always recommend a custom build over something off-the-shelf with a name on it. You'll 99.9999% of the time save more $$$ that way, and you get something specific to your needs. If you can't do it yourself, and you can't find someone local to do it, you can go with an online house such as CyberPowerPC. I've "graduated" to doing my own builds, but I've done several systems through them before and have never had problems.
Sure, you can render with a 1650, or a 1660, but will be a nice experience? That's a tough question, and it depends on what you want to do. VRAM is the ultimate limit, if your scene needs more VRAM than the GPU has, then the GPU does NOT RUN AT ALL. The GPU is just an expensive paperweight. So this is why VRAM is so extremely important in any decision for what to buy, because everything that you create is going to be centered around how much VRAM you have. It is possible to render on CPU, but on laptop, you are looking at 10-20 times slower rendering versus even a modest Nvidia GPU. Its that big a difference. Speed is in the eye of the beholder though, some people are more patient than others, but VRAM is not so subjective.
There is a benchmark thread in my sig. But nearly 95% of all the benches are done with desktop parts. Laptop parts will be a little slower. That is another negative about laptops. The benchmark does not factor VRAM, it assumes the scene fits. 4GB is not much today. That will limit you. 6GB is obviously better, but you will still be limited in some ways, there is no denying that. However you will be able to do a little more.
Laptops are massive money drains. Only get one if you absolutely require the portability, otherwise you are straight up wasting your money. You can easily get a desktop at HALF the price and it would still be more powerful than the equivalent laptop So instead of a laptop with a 1660, you could be looking at a 2070 Super for a desktop or better, which BTW has 8GB of VRAM. But it doesn't stop there. A laptop rarely offers any upgrade path. Iray is extremely GPU focused. With a desktop, you can always pop a new GPU in and bam, you are set for a while.
Like my desktop, I have a CPU from 2014. Its basically crap now. But it doesn't matter. I have two 1080tis so I render decently well, and I'll be able to upgrade whenever new GPUs release possibly later this year. All while still running with the same CPU I've had for a solid 6 years. When I built my PC I started with a 670! I've upgraded my GPUs multiple times now. I went from a 670 to a 970 to a 1080ti to two 1080tis. You can't do that with a laptop. Many users here have CPUs and computers much older than mine that have new or very recent GPUs in them. In a couple of years, there is no option to upgrade that laptop, you have to buy an entire new one at the inflated prices laptops are. You might be kicking yourself wondering why you had to get a laptop.
Iray is also pretty demanding, and most laptops are not ideal for cooling. You would need to get a laptop that has a focus on cooling, some proper gaming laptops should. But that's not going to come cheap.
Thank you so much for all your advices, guys. I'll consider all of them and then I'll take my final decision. Thank you! :D
As someone who does this, seek out a local who is reputable. I build a small volume of machines, 4 or 5 a month usually, and can spend the time finding out what the customer does with the computer and doing research to make hardware recommendations.
Small builders have no incentive to install all the bloatware you'll find on HP or Dell machines.
...the upper row of key switches on my old Toshiba Notebook were burned out with by heat from rendering so had to get an auxiliary keyboard. I also never liked the touchpad as it was too small and inaccurate. so I added an external trackball controller.
...+1
...yes that's what I did as well. years ago DIY systens we much les expensive than having a custom house set one up with the same specs Today the gap has closed somewhat (unless you are looking at high end workstations). DIY grants you the most flexibility, but you have to know what you are doing and make sure the components are compatible.
Also keep in mind that any system you get will have Windows 10, so I would get the GPU with the mot VRAM you can afford as Windows WDDM reserves about 15% (that GTX 1650 with 4 GB would have only about 3.4 GB available for rendering) and there is no way around it with an enthusiast's card unless it is a Titan or Quadro (both very expensive). I would also go for the Pro Edition of W10, as it gives you more options and control.
Asus has a reputation for building good quality laptops, their ROG models typically get very good reviews. I've owned two MSI gaming laptops (using one right now), and have been really happy with them. Regardless of what you decide on, a laptop cooling pad is a very worthwhile addition to help cool your computer while rendering.
There are several custom builders on line where you can design one just the way you want (MSI or Asus). My current MSI I configured and bought from Xotic PC, I'm really happy with the quality and the customer service.