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Curious: Does the latest Nvidia driver bring benefits for Iray renders?

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  • Ghosty12Ghosty12 Posts: 2,068
    kenshaw011267 said:
    Ghosty12 said:
    Kerya said:
    Ghosty12 said:

    Just a word of warning everyone using this option, because it needs to have the 2004 version of Windows 10 to work there is a major flaw with the defrag program continually re-trimming SSD's for some people.. If unable to roll back to the previous version of Win 10 the only option is to turn off auto re-trim until this is fixed..

     

    ???

    It needs to have the 2004 version? I installed 451.48  on my Windows 10 64bit 1909 ...

    Or are you talking about the hardware-enabling feature thingie?

    It is both you need the latest driver, and you also need the Win 10 2004 update for hardware scheduling switch, unfortunately the update has this bug..

    This is fixed in the next release candidate. Unless your drive is already nearly exhausted it will not have a major impact.

    Trimming is an automatic and needed feature on SSD's and should not be disabled, except in specific circumstance that will not come up in normal use.

    I know that it is needed thing, the problem is that this issue is trimming SSD's more often than it should thus shortening the drives life faster than normal.. It also seems that this bug will try to use the trim on HDD's..

  • tj_1ca9500btj_1ca9500b Posts: 2,057
    edited June 2020

    Sooo, since this is transferring the scheduler to the GPU, my question is, how does this play in to the 19% Windows 10 VRAM tax?  Has anyone checked to see if more VRAM might be available for a render with the new hardware scheduler?  The same amount?  Less?  Sure, the 'pro' cards have a 'headless' mode, which can bypass this, but the lesser cards don't have that option available, but since it says that Windows isn't doing the scheduling with this new option...

    Well you can see why I'm wondering about this.  My Daz build has been isolated from the internet for a long time now, hence it isn't getting any Windows, Nvidia, or Daz updates, so I'm not set up to test this.  But when I do eventually tackle my next build... well inquiring minds want to know!

    Post edited by tj_1ca9500b on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 102,908
    outrider42 said:
    Leana said:
    outrider42 said:
    Taoz said:
    outrider42 said:
    If a graphics driver is buggy, you can roll back. So there is no real harm in testing out a new driver. However, if a new version of Studio is buggy you can never ever ever roll back Studio.

    Well you can if you save a copy of the installer.  I've done it many times.

    Yes, but that is entirely on the user to do themselves. Daz provides no option to roll back otherwise. Many users are probably unaware they can even do this.

    Leana said:
    Taoz said:
    outrider42 said:
    If a graphics driver is buggy, you can roll back. So there is no real harm in testing out a new driver. However, if a new version of Studio is buggy you can never ever ever roll back Studio.

    Well you can if you save a copy of the installer.  I've done it many times.

    You can also open a support ticket to ask Daz if they can provide you with the older version.

    Not good enough. Key word: ASK. They may not provide you with an older version. There are people who have asked and not received one.

    So you cannot count on this. Because of this uncertainty, I would say this is not a valid option. I mean, really? We have to ask and just hope they will help?

    You don't like Daz policy, I get it. That doesn't make your statement that "you can never ever roll back Studio" true though.

    If you didn't back up, you have no recourse. If you can locate anybody who has actually received a previous build of Daz from their support, please let me know. So until you can provide evidence to say otherwise, my statement is 100% true.

    Yes, people have received an older version - though I don't have links to the posts to hand. Asking is actually one of the subject options for Technical Suport tickets.

  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805
    tj_1ca9500b said:

    Sooo, since this is transferring the scheduler to the GPU, my question is, how does this play in to the 19% Windows 10 VRAM tax?  Has anyone checked to see if more VRAM might be available for a render with the new hardware scheduler?  The same amount?  Less?  Sure, the 'pro' cards have a 'headless' mode, which can bypass this, but the lesser cards don't have that option available, but since it says that Windows isn't doing the scheduling with this new option...

    Well you can see why I'm wondering about this.  My Daz build has been isolated from the internet for a long time now, hence it isn't getting any Windows, Nvidia, or Daz updates, so I'm not set up to test this.  But when I do eventually tackle my next build... well inquiring minds want to know!

    WDDM does not claim a flat 19% of a GPU's VRAM. How these claims get started baffle me.

  • tj_1ca9500btj_1ca9500b Posts: 2,057
    edited June 2020
    kenshaw011267 said:
    tj_1ca9500b said:

    Sooo, since this is transferring the scheduler to the GPU, my question is, how does this play in to the 19% Windows 10 VRAM tax?  Has anyone checked to see if more VRAM might be available for a render with the new hardware scheduler?  The same amount?  Less?  Sure, the 'pro' cards have a 'headless' mode, which can bypass this, but the lesser cards don't have that option available, but since it says that Windows isn't doing the scheduling with this new option...

    Well you can see why I'm wondering about this.  My Daz build has been isolated from the internet for a long time now, hence it isn't getting any Windows, Nvidia, or Daz updates, so I'm not set up to test this.  But when I do eventually tackle my next build... well inquiring minds want to know!

    WDDM does not claim a flat 19% of a GPU's VRAM. How these claims get started baffle me.

    It's about that.  90% of 90% of the VRAM is the limit of the VRAM made available to any one application, UNLESS you have a 'pro' card in 'headless' mode.  See this archived thread:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/120541/vram-available-for-rendering-on-windows-10-systems-update-gtx-1080-ti/p1

    Nvidia has acknowledged this behavior, and Nvidia's acknowledgement has prompted the Daz3D team to consider this 'normal Windows 10 behavior/solved'.  See OP in linked thread above.  For more info, there are several threads about this behavior over at the OTOY forums, Microsoft forums (although Microsoft dodges the issue), and a few other rendering-focused forums.

    So I'm not looking to rehash the 'old behavior' in this post, just wondering if moving the scheduler over to the GPU has changed this behavior in any way (sets aside more VRAM for hardware scheduling, bypasses WDDM, etc).  Has anyone noticed different VRAM behavior with the hardware scheduler enabled?

     

     

    Post edited by tj_1ca9500b on
  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805
    tj_1ca9500b said:
    kenshaw011267 said:
    tj_1ca9500b said:

    Sooo, since this is transferring the scheduler to the GPU, my question is, how does this play in to the 19% Windows 10 VRAM tax?  Has anyone checked to see if more VRAM might be available for a render with the new hardware scheduler?  The same amount?  Less?  Sure, the 'pro' cards have a 'headless' mode, which can bypass this, but the lesser cards don't have that option available, but since it says that Windows isn't doing the scheduling with this new option...

    Well you can see why I'm wondering about this.  My Daz build has been isolated from the internet for a long time now, hence it isn't getting any Windows, Nvidia, or Daz updates, so I'm not set up to test this.  But when I do eventually tackle my next build... well inquiring minds want to know!

    WDDM does not claim a flat 19% of a GPU's VRAM. How these claims get started baffle me.

    It's about that.  90% of 90% of the VRAM is the limit of the VRAM made available to any one application, UNLESS you have a 'pro' card in 'headless' mode.  See this archived thread:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/120541/vram-available-for-rendering-on-windows-10-systems-update-gtx-1080-ti/p1

    Nvidia has acknowledged this behavior, and Nvidia's acknowledgement has prompted the Daz3D team to consider this 'normal Windows 10 behavior/solved'.  See OP in linked thread above.  For more info, there are several threads about this behavior over at the OTOY forums, Microsoft forums (although Microsoft dodges the issue), and a few other rendering-focused forums.

    So I'm not looking to rehash the 'old behavior' in this post, just wondering if moving the scheduler over to the GPU has changed this behavior in any way (sets aside more VRAM for hardware scheduling, bypasses WDDM, etc).  Has anyone noticed different VRAM behavior with the hardware scheduler enabled?

    That's from 2018. Unless I missed one there have been 7 updates to WDDM since then, the version under discussion is WDDM 2.7.

    I can test my system with my server monitoring SW. My 8 Gb card reports more than 7Gb of VRAM available and renders scenes that do take more than 7Gb on my 11Gb card. 81% of 8Gb is 6.5Gb. I'm sure you can see my problem.

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,310

    With everything but MSI Afterburner shut down, I go down to 539 Mb used of 11 Gb.  Now with just a few Chrome tabs open, it's at 729 Mb used.

  • outrider42outrider42 Posts: 3,679
    Richard Haseltine said:
    outrider42 said:
    Leana said:
    outrider42 said:
    Taoz said:
    outrider42 said:
    If a graphics driver is buggy, you can roll back. So there is no real harm in testing out a new driver. However, if a new version of Studio is buggy you can never ever ever roll back Studio.

    Well you can if you save a copy of the installer.  I've done it many times.

    Yes, but that is entirely on the user to do themselves. Daz provides no option to roll back otherwise. Many users are probably unaware they can even do this.

    Leana said:
    Taoz said:
    outrider42 said:
    If a graphics driver is buggy, you can roll back. So there is no real harm in testing out a new driver. However, if a new version of Studio is buggy you can never ever ever roll back Studio.

    Well you can if you save a copy of the installer.  I've done it many times.

    You can also open a support ticket to ask Daz if they can provide you with the older version.

    Not good enough. Key word: ASK. They may not provide you with an older version. There are people who have asked and not received one.

    So you cannot count on this. Because of this uncertainty, I would say this is not a valid option. I mean, really? We have to ask and just hope they will help?

    You don't like Daz policy, I get it. That doesn't make your statement that "you can never ever roll back Studio" true though.

    If you didn't back up, you have no recourse. If you can locate anybody who has actually received a previous build of Daz from their support, please let me know. So until you can provide evidence to say otherwise, my statement is 100% true.

    Yes, people have received an older version - though I don't have links to the posts to hand. Asking is actually one of the subject options for Technical Suport tickets.

    Well, that's swell. What about those who didn't?

    Also, this goes goes against this previous statement. Is this an actual change of policy? Will they really supply an older version to someone who asks now? What is the criteria for support providing it?

  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805
    Sevrin said:

    With everything but MSI Afterburner shut down, I go down to 539 Mb used of 11 Gb.  Now with just a few Chrome tabs open, it's at 729 Mb used.

    Huh? That literally makes no sense.

  • SevrinSevrin Posts: 6,310
    kenshaw011267 said:
    Sevrin said:

    With everything but MSI Afterburner shut down, I go down to 539 Mb used of 11 Gb.  Now with just a few Chrome tabs open, it's at 729 Mb used.

    Huh? That literally makes no sense.

    Well, that's literally what MSI Afterburner showed.

  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805
    Sevrin said:
    kenshaw011267 said:
    Sevrin said:

    With everything but MSI Afterburner shut down, I go down to 539 Mb used of 11 Gb.  Now with just a few Chrome tabs open, it's at 729 Mb used.

    Huh? That literally makes no sense.

    Well, that's literally what MSI Afterburner showed.

    Sorry misread what you posted. My bad.

  • tj_1ca9500btj_1ca9500b Posts: 2,057
    edited June 2020
    kenshaw011267 said:
    tj_1ca9500b said:
    kenshaw011267 said:
    tj_1ca9500b said:

    Sooo, since this is transferring the scheduler to the GPU, my question is, how does this play in to the 19% Windows 10 VRAM tax?  Has anyone checked to see if more VRAM might be available for a render with the new hardware scheduler?  The same amount?  Less?  Sure, the 'pro' cards have a 'headless' mode, which can bypass this, but the lesser cards don't have that option available, but since it says that Windows isn't doing the scheduling with this new option...

    Well you can see why I'm wondering about this.  My Daz build has been isolated from the internet for a long time now, hence it isn't getting any Windows, Nvidia, or Daz updates, so I'm not set up to test this.  But when I do eventually tackle my next build... well inquiring minds want to know!

    WDDM does not claim a flat 19% of a GPU's VRAM. How these claims get started baffle me.

    It's about that.  90% of 90% of the VRAM is the limit of the VRAM made available to any one application, UNLESS you have a 'pro' card in 'headless' mode.  See this archived thread:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/120541/vram-available-for-rendering-on-windows-10-systems-update-gtx-1080-ti/p1

    Nvidia has acknowledged this behavior, and Nvidia's acknowledgement has prompted the Daz3D team to consider this 'normal Windows 10 behavior/solved'.  See OP in linked thread above.  For more info, there are several threads about this behavior over at the OTOY forums, Microsoft forums (although Microsoft dodges the issue), and a few other rendering-focused forums.

    So I'm not looking to rehash the 'old behavior' in this post, just wondering if moving the scheduler over to the GPU has changed this behavior in any way (sets aside more VRAM for hardware scheduling, bypasses WDDM, etc).  Has anyone noticed different VRAM behavior with the hardware scheduler enabled?

    That's from 2018. Unless I missed one there have been 7 updates to WDDM since then, the version under discussion is WDDM 2.7.

    I can test my system with my server monitoring SW. My 8 Gb card reports more than 7Gb of VRAM available and renders scenes that do take more than 7Gb on my 11Gb card. 81% of 8Gb is 6.5Gb. I'm sure you can see my problem.

    People have been reporting the same issue to Microsoft in 2020 btw.  Still around 19-20% unavailable for rendering.  Most people had simply given up on Microsoft ever doing anything about this, based on the more recent 'tech support' posts I've read via google.

    HOWEVER, I did come across this Redshift Facebook post, that relates directly to this issue:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/RedshiftRender/permalink/959019687880575/

    Heads up to all Windows 10 GPU renderer users. The new Windows 10 2004 build update + Nvidia Studio Driver 451.48 frees up more VRAM from the system reserve. This updates Windows WDDM to version 2.7. In the past this used to reserve a lot of the VRAM for the system. On my workstation my 2080ti’s got back between 1.5-2gb VRAM from the Windows 10 reserve. Great news. ????

    I have a thread in the forums about this with some numbers for people interested or want to add their own tests.

    *WARNING* like and and all major OS updates, there can be issues with some systems/setups, proceed with caution and make backups in necessary.

    https://www.redshift3d.com/forums/viewthread/32067/

    There was a similar post on the OTOY Facebook recently according to Google, but I wasn't able to spot the post due to it being buried by more recent posts.  It's probably there somewhere, but there's a LOT of daily posts on the OTOY facebook that Google linked to...

    Assuming this same behavior is also observed in Daz Studio, I would deem this an improvement vs pre WDDM 2.7, using the correct Nvidia companion driver along with 2.7 as mentioned in the quote above.

    So again, I'm not asking about what Windows (10) reports as 'VRAM visible', but if people are actually able to RENDER larger scenes (over the @ 81% VRAM memory threshold for any one app) with the new drivers, or if they are still dropping to CPU only at that point..  The thread I previously linked explains how to read the Daz Studio logs for actual scene size and such.

    I would appreciate it if someone OTHER than kenshawa would be willing to verify this 'new' behavior with a non-pro card.

    Color me cautiously optimistic based on the Redshift info...

     

    Post edited by tj_1ca9500b on
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